Friday 3 May 1667

Up, and with Sir J. Minnes, [Sir] W. Batten, and [Sir] W. Pen in the last man’s coach to St. James’s, and thence up to the Duke of York’s chamber, which, as it is now fretted at the top, and the chimney-piece made handsome, is one of the noblest and best-proportioned rooms that ever, I think, I saw in my life, and when ready, into his closet and did our business, where, among other things, we had a proposition of Mr. Pierces, for being continued in pay, or something done for him, in reward of his pains as Chyrurgeon-Generall; forasmuch as Troutbecke, that was never a doctor before, hath got 200l. a year settled on him for nothing but that one voyage with the Duke of Albemarle. The Duke of York and the whole company did shew most particular kindness to Mr. Pierce, every body moving for him, and the Duke himself most, that he is likely to be a very great man, I believe. Here also we had another mention of Carcasses business, and we directed to bring in a report of our opinion of his case, which vexes us that such a rogue shall make us so much trouble. Thence I presently to the Excise Office, and there met the Cofferer and [Sir] Stephen Fox by agreement, and agreed upon a method for our future payments, and then we three to my Lord Treasurer, who continues still very ill. I had taken my stone with me on purpose, and Sir Philip Warwicke carried it in to him to see, but was not in a condition to talk with me about it, poor man. So I with them to Westminster by coach; the Cofferer telling us odd stories how he was dealt with by the men of the Church at Westminster in taking a lease of them at the King’s coming in, and particularly the devilish covetousness of Dr. Busby. Sir Stephen Fox, in discourse, told him how he is selling some land he hath, which yields him not above three per cent., if so much, and turning it into money, which he can put out at ten per cent.; and, as times go, if they be like to continue, it is the best way for me to keep money going so, for aught I see. I to Westminster Hall, and there took a turn with my old acquaintance Mr. Pechell, whose red nose makes me ashamed to be seen with him, though otherwise a good-natured man. So away, I not finding of Mr. Moore, with whom I should have met and spoke about a letter I this day received from him from my Lord Hinchingbroke, wherein he desires me to help him to 1900l. to pay a bill of exchange of his father’s, which troubles me much, but I will find some way, if I can do it, but not to bring myself in bonds or disbursements for it, whatever comes of it. So home to dinner, where my wife hath ‘ceux la’ upon her and is very ill with them, and so forced to go to bed, and I sat by her a good while, then down to my chamber and made an end of Rycaut’s History of the Turks, which is a very good book. Then to the office, and did some business, and then my wife being pretty well, by coach to little Michell’s, and there saw my poor Betty and her little child, which slept so soundly we could hardly wake it in an hour’s time without hurting it, and they tell me what I did not know, that a child (as this do) will hunt and hunt up and down with its mouth if you touch the cheek of it with your finger’s end for a nipple, and fit its mouth for sucking, but this hath not sucked yet, she having no nipples. Here sat a while, and then my wife and I, it being a most curious clear evening, after some rain to-day, took a most excellent tour by coach to Bow, and there drank and back again, and so a little at the office, and home to read a little, and to supper and bed mightily refreshed with this evening’s tour, but troubled that it hath hindered my doing some business which I would have done at the office. This day the newes is come that the fleete of the Dutch, of about 20 ships, which come upon our coasts upon design to have intercepted our colliers, but by good luck failed, is gone to the Frith, —[Frith of Forth. See 5th of this month.]— and there lies, perhaps to trouble the Scotch privateers, which have galled them of late very much, it may be more than all our last year’s fleete.

32 Annotations

Terry Foreman   Link to this

"my wife hath ‘ceux la’ upon her and is very ill with them"

"‘ceux la’" = "those", presumably her "monthlies," for she is soon out and about.

ticea   Link to this

"then my wife being pretty well, by coach to little Michell’s, and there saw my poor Betty and her little child, which slept so soundly we could hardly wake it in an hour’s time without hurting it,.... but this hath not sucked yet, she having no nipples."

I've always wondered about this entry. Betty Michell gave birth on April 23rd; so unless she employed a wet-nurse, there is no way the newborn would survive nine days without a feeding. Perhaps Betty didn't want Sam to see her breast-feeding and give Sam some jollies at the same time... either that or Sam has some "inside information" that she really doesn't have nipples.

Perhaps I'm misreading this - maybe the baby was fed just prior to Sam's arrival,which perhaps would account for the sleepiness...so the phrase "she having no nipples" might mean no milk at the moment.

cape henry   Link to this

"The Duke of York and the whole company did shew most particular kindness to Mr. Pierce, every body moving for him, and the Duke himself most, that he is likely to be a very great man, I believe."Thus a noble example of the modern "round of golf" during which a senior manager is promoted to second vice president owing to his admirable skill with the #3 iron on 8 leading to an eagle.

"Same as it ever was." D. Byrne

sbt   Link to this

On Pierce, from L&M:
"From being surgeon on the ‘Naseby’ (c. 1658-60) he rose to become Surgeon-General of the Fleet in both the Second and Third Dutch Wars, and was responsibnle for the introduction of hospital ships and other reforms, such as the use of medical records which ensured that the wounded received appropriate treatment ashore"

So the man was deserving - I don't know where Cape Henry's impression
about 'rounds of golf' comes from.

And on Carcasse - It seems to me that the main reason that he was
singled out for his corruption is that he was involved in direct fraud,
making 'double tickets', one to be redeemed to pay the legitimate
holder, one to be redeemed to pay Carcasse. Plus he also seems, in some
way to have been involved in fraud against over those redeeming Tickets, which IIRC included seamen (hence the riot in which he was beaten in Feb). The situation with seamen's pay was bad enough, and a threat to the Navy's operations, without people making it worse.

Peyps, on the other hand, was not a 'hand in the till' man, he made his
money through independent business (for example, the Privateer), with a
bit of what we would today call 'insider trading' (investing in a rope
merchant who he knew was likely, partially though his influence, to get
the Navy's contract) plus the usual, at that time, 'gifts' from
contractors to keep him 'on side', and fees charged, legitimately at
that time, for his official actions.

At times and places where such actions are expected they are often
'locked in' by reducing the salary of those in posts with the
expectation that the difference between the official salary and the
income expected for a man of sufficient ability to hold it would, or
will, be made up through graft.

Note that Peyps believes that Batten has his a 'hand in the till' man
and is, by his standards, therefore 'corrupt'.

Carl in Boston   Link to this

reducing a salary .. by accounting for graft ... to produce a proper income for a job
What an interesting thought. I think you have something there.

Margaret   Link to this

"...she having no nipples."
When I first read this, I assumed that Betty's breasts were so swollen with milk that the nipple didn't stand out enough for the child to be able to grasp (when that happens these days, the mom can put the nipple from a baby's bottle over her own breast, but I don't know if they had anything equivalent then).
But I think it's more likely that poor old Sam misunderstood whatever it was that the women told him.

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"...and when ready, into his closet and did our business..."

"So?"

Gurgle...Hee...

"Bess? What?"

Ummmnnn...Bwah...Umph... "Excuse me, Sam'l."

"Bess? What the devil is so funny?"

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"I had taken my stone with me on purpose, and Sir Philip Warwicke carried it in to him to see, but was not in a condition to talk with me about it, poor man."

Heaven...

"You brought your stone to the Lord Treasurer?"

"I thought it would make an excellent conversation piece. To show him what he could survive..."

"Oh, Lord. Wait...? You didn't then carry it with you to Westminster, showing it off at each and every chance?"

Ummn...

"Bess...People were curious about what I had in the box..."

"Dear God...No wonder no one here in Heaven accepts our dinner invitations."

Michael Robinson   Link to this

@sbt So the man [Pierce} was deserving - I don’t know where Cape Henry’s impression about ‘rounds of golf’ comes from.

Directly from the text of today's entry: "that was never a doctor before, hath got 200l. a year settled on him for nothing but that one voyage with the Duke of Albemarle. ..." James could equally have found a way to put his household physician on the Navy payroll and reduce his own expenses. Pierce's achievements in naval medical administration are years in the future and date from the period following the third Dutch war.

One may be both able and accomplished but that may not be the reason for promotion, in the absence of evidence of destructive incompetence being clubable often counts for significantly more: "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO2xi0uLnj8&NR=1

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"Here sat a while, and then my wife and I, it being a most curious clear evening, after some rain to-day, took a most excellent tour by coach to Bow, and there drank and back again..."

"Ow! What the devil am I sitting on? Oh, how'd a tennis ball get on my cushion?"

"Bess! Don't toss that! Nooooo....!"

"Whoa. Did you see me hit that tree across the road, moving coach and all? That ball or rock thing blew apart like...Sweetheart?"

***

"Here's another piece... Sweetheart, I'm sorry but did you have to carry it round everywhere?"

"Here's another, sir." Driver hands fragment. Hmmn...Eyes sad-looking lump. "Doesn't look like we've got more than half intact, sir."

"All the king's horses, honey..." sigh.

"Shut up both of you and find the rest!"

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"All right Warwicke, hand it over."

"Are you gents sure about this?" Sir Philip eyes the group.

"Just go back and tell Pepys his Lordship was too ill to view the sacred object. But don't give him a chance to open the box." Admiral Sir William grins.

"Just say I appreciated the gesture and will remember his kind duty towards me." Wriothesley nods. Sir Philip heads off, box in hand.

"Well, lads? Now we've got it..." Minnes holds stone up. "Do we use it in billards or what?"

"Give him a chance to forget about it and get home...Then send the note." Batten grins. "Mr. Pepys, we have taken a precious object of yours from your coach, etc..."

"So who's 'we'?" Penn asks.

"Captain Macbeth, famed highwayman..." Minnes offers. "And 50Ls gets its safe return."

"The French...And he can get it back if he agrees to give our agent the defense plans for Shearness." Batten suggests.

"And he'd do it too..." Penn nods.

"We could always send nothing. Just wait till Monday then have ole Cooper paint a pupil on it and stick it in the socket as his new marble eye." Minnes. "'Why, Pepys where's the ole stone? Cooper here says his new eye's bigger but we bet yours outdoes it.'"

Michael Robinson   Link to this

@abt Pepys believes that Batten has his a ‘hand in the till’ man and is, by his standards, therefore ‘corrupt’.

The conflict between Pepys, a young man completely without experience appointed as a protege of a distinguished relative, and the older Batten, a distinguished sailor without family connections and with a lengthy career as a sailor and in in Naval administration, starts over Pepys asserting his right to draft contracts despite his having no prior experience in naval or commercial matters; both are 'sponsored' by leading suppliers, Pepys by Warren and Batten by Wood. The conflict could as much be that between a young desk-jockey, adept at the spreadsheets and PowerPoint, and an old hand comfortable in the field directing dockyards and shipbuilders.

SP's conscience certainly became more flexible with time. At the beginning of his rise, before he was taken under Sir William Warren’s wing and learned about unreceipted cash payments made by the bag away from the prying eyes of third parties, Pepys was sufficiently unsophisticated to take the relatively small sums of coin out of packets without looking so he could swear he had never seen them. Pepys certainly rationalized about saving the King more than he acquired. With both Tangier and the Navy Pepys did breach the explicit contemporary rules, not just informal norms, which expressly forbade principal officers from direct trading with their own departments.

Pepys rationalizations are in themselves a form of corruption – is it more corrupt to steal from the contributions of sailors to the Chatham Chest as Pepys believed of Batten, or to take from the victualers supplying Tangier and therefore effectively reduce the direct compensation of the individual member of the garrison in the form of their food and clothing allowance: I know not how to cut these issues so fine.

Spoiler Though C17th.standards in public life were not those expected today, SP was sufficiently concerned to remove notes of income and payments received from the Diary once the inquiries start and, later, in a venial age, he and Hewer were two of the very few officials of the day sufficiently notorious to be satirized in print: A hue & cry after P. and H. and Plain truth. [Variant title: Plain truth: or, A private discourse betwixt P. & H] [London : s.n., 1679].

Mary   Link to this

lack of breastfeeding.

From as early as the 15th century it was not unknown for babies to be fed with either cow's or goat's milk where breastfeeding failed for one reason or another. Even tiny babies can be fed from a cup and there is evidence that drinking-horns could also be used for the purpose. Not ideal, of course, but decidedly better than inevitable early starvation.

Ruben   Link to this

"but this hath not sucked yet, she having no nipples"

From the Treaty of Human Anatomy by Testut, corrected by Latarjet, published in 1934 in Barcelona, vol IV, page 1231: (my translation)
"Amastia: reduction in the number of mamamry glands... Can be total, when there is no gland and no nipple or partial when only one of the components is lacking."
"Atelia: when only the nipple is lacking."

I am quite sure that the lady knew she had no nipples, so a wet nurse was arranged beforehand, as would probably have been even had she had nipples. Her problem was the segregated milk that had no way out. To make short a long story about progesterone and other hormones, may I say that as there was no sucking stimulation, not much milk was produced after birth. So the only problem was to have a wet nurse near the child.

Mary   Link to this

"but this hath not sucked yet"
seems fairly plain and would imply that no wet-nurse was employed in this instance.

Ruben   Link to this

“but this hath not sucked yet”...from his mother?

Terry Foreman   Link to this

"the Cofferer telling us odd stories how he was dealt with by the men of the Church at Westminster in taking a lease of them at the King’s coming in, and particularly the devilish covetousness of Dr. Busby. "

L&M note the property referred to by the Cofferer (William Ashburnham) was a house in the cloisters of Westminster Abbey that will become known as Ashburnham House. The controversy about it is just begun and is referenced here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashburnham_House

Terry Foreman   Link to this

"my old acquaintance Mr. Pechell, whose red nose makes me ashamed to be seen with him, though otherwise a good-natured man."

Might the Rev. Mr. John Peachell have suffered from a type of rosacea?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosacea

Fern   Link to this

Re Margaret's note: "But I think it’s more likely that poor old Sam misunderstood whatever it was that the women told him."
Speaking from experience, this sounds the most likely explanation. Quite possibly Sam was not part of the conversation, merely sitting alongside feeling a bit superfluous.

And could someone please tell me how to pronounce Wriothesley.

ticea   Link to this

Indeed, Terry, the Rev. Peachell might well have suffered from rosacea, which can be exacerbated by even a small amount of alcohol. The Reverend's "morning draught" would be enough to give him a flare-up and make him seem like a red-nosed drunk.

Michael Robinson   Link to this

Asburnam House. "odd stories how he was dealt with by the men of the Church at Westminster in taking a lease of them at the King’s coming in, and particularly the devilish covetousness of Dr. Busby."

The dispute alluded to today is that between the Abbey and the Asburnams over the terms of a post Restoration building lease; the property was originally the Abbey 'Prior's Lodging, the late c14th walls are present inside the C17 brick shell. Busby was a Prebendary of the Abbey in addition to being Headmaster of the School.

This is completely unrelated to the later, nineteenth century, dispute, referred to in the Wikipedia article, between the Abbey and the School stemming from the recommendations of the Clarendon Commission of 1861-64 about division of property.

Andrew Hamilton   Link to this

"reducing a salary .. by accounting for graft"

If it was part of the system of the day, it would appear to be a forerunner of "eat what you kill" bank bonuses.

ghl   Link to this

@Fern
Wriothesley pronounced Risley.

Mary   Link to this

Wriothesley

pronounced "Rizley" I believe.

Mary   Link to this

Pechell's nose,

L&M enlarge on this. The gentleman was apparently a notorious toper. His death was reported to be the result of going without alcohol for four days after being rebuked by his bishop for the bad example that his drinking set for others.

Australian Susan   Link to this

"...her little child, which slept so soundly we could hardly wake it in an hour’s time without hurting it, and they tell me what I did not know, that a child (as this do) will hunt and hunt up and down with its mouth if you touch the cheek of it with your finger’s end for a nipple, and fit its mouth for sucking, but this hath not sucked yet, she having no nipples....."

This entry horrified me. This poor little baby is rooting ( as described) desperately for a nipple, but does not seem to have been fed properly - if at all - since birth. Babies can go for their first 24 hrs or so without feeding (nature fixes this, so they can recover from the birth), but need colostrum after this.The mother's milk 'comes in' on day 2 or 3. And the lethargy seems deadly. Poor little thing. I doubt it will survive.

djc   Link to this

"we had a proposition of Mr. Pierces, for being continued in pay, or something done for him, in reward of his pains as Chyrurgeon-Generall; forasmuch as Troutbecke, that was never a doctor before, hath got 200l. a year settled on him for nothing but that one voyage with the Duke of Albemarle."

We have two surgeons here. Mr Pierce (deserving) and Troutbecke (possibly not so deserving).

sbt   Link to this

I read it as being Troutbeke that was 'never a Doctor before', not Pierce. Note that Troutbeke is the Surgeon to the King, not Doctor or PhysisianI read it as being Troutbeke is the one that was 'never a Doctor before', not Pierce. 'for as much as Troutbecke, that was never a doctor before, hath got 200l. a year settled on him...'. Note that both men were Surgeons, not, at that time, a trade that attracted the honour of being termed a 'Doctor' - that was reserved for Physicians. However Troutbeke was appointed Physician General to the Fleet, and thus a Doctor, with only one voyage under his belt and a background as an Army Surgeon, not a Physician. Pierce, on the other hand, was Surgeon to the Fleet at the same time, thus not a Doctor, but was an experienced Naval Surgeon.

Both the text and history show that it was Troutbeke 'that was never a Doctor before'. Pierce is the experienced man doing a good job not being sufficiently well rewarded for it.

Its worth reading up on the way Patronage worked around this time. I recommend Rodgers 'The Wooden World'. Whilst it was more evident afloat good recommendations were good policy for Patrons, the more good men you recommended the more likely your recommendations were to be acted upon. Thus the more good men were beholden to you and the more able men came to you with a view to 'getting on' and the more able assistants you had. Men who made poor recommendations suffered for it. Its wrong to read across the system of US Party Political Patronage to the time of Pepys unmodified.

Be very wary of accusations against Pepys in 1679. This was the period where he was being attacked as a Catholic Spy.

http://www.pepysdiary.com/indepth/2007/08/16/th...

Lots of things known, then and now, to be untrue were said about Pepys (and Hewer) at the time, making him out to be especially corrupt would be par for the course. If he was especialy corrupt it begs the question as to why, when his enemies were clutching at every possible straw to attack him (and, through him, the Duke of York) and his powerful friends had had to abandon him, this wasn't an angle used against him in court.

Fern   Link to this

Thanks to ghl and Mary for the Wriothesley pronunciation.

Michael Robinson   Link to this

It is worth reading up ...

The structure of patronage and significance and status of ‘followings’ in the Navy of 1660-70, a world of no continuous service and no permanent rank, differs quite markedly from their role subsequent 70 years of development of permanent institutional structures – though some individual ‘followings,’ notably the ‘Cocklethorpe connection’ perpetuated by the long and successful career of Admiral Sir Cloudesley Shovell, survived into the later era: the full title of N. A. M. Rodgers work is ‘The Wooden World: An Anatomy of the Georgian Navy,’ 1986. In my opinion it would be wrong to read into the world of 1660s’ the more slowly evolving administrative and social systems of the permanent ‘Naval Establishment’ of the Georgian period, following the numerous administrative changes not least those initiated by Pepys himself in the post Diary period, and the gradual formation of a full time List and Establishment c1690 – 1710.

It would be difficult to understate the cumulative impact on both ethos and institutions of the following: the requirement of December 1677, obliging candidates for Lt. to have served at least three years at sea including one as midshipman and to have passed an exam in seamanship; the evolution of a ‘List’ and formal seniority by date of commission, even in the 1680’s Pepys found preparing such an impossibility because of overlapping and divergent commissions having been and were then still issued simultaneously by the Admiralty, individual holders of Flag rank and individual Captains when in command of cruising squadrons; the gradual evolution and development over 25 years of a formal system of ‘half-pay.’ The Georgian Navy, with its multi-generational naval kinship networks overlapping with analogous consanguineous parliamentary networks having a direct influence on sea appointments, policy and strategy, since a permanent establishment involved continuous appropriations, is, for example, of a different order of complexity from the straightforward attempts of the Navy Board in the second half of the C 17th. to use its influence over the electors of two member Borough constituencies where there were dockyards to attempt to elect individual members of the ‘Court’ party without local connection in the Naval interest.

The ethos and tribal loyalties of C20th American Party patronage, a world also of no continuous service and no permanent rank – that of the Byrd’s in Virginia, the Bronx and Brooklyn club houses, or the more recent nexus between the worlds of equine organizations and Republican fund-raising and patronage appointments from which, to give but two notorious examples, Ken Tomlinson and Michael Brown emerged, would be one instinctively familiar to Pepys and his cohorts more so, I think, than to the average American.
**********

Of course the pamphlet ‘A hue & cry after P. and H. and Plain truth’ [1679] was associated with the various Pepys trials during the ‘Popish Plot’ hysteria. The pamphlet was written by the notorious and able partisan-for-hire ‘Elephant’ Smith, based upon the long account John James, Pepys former butler, provided privately to the prosecution in a fit of pique and indignation after Pepys had suggested James had committed perjury in his account of Morelli’s Catholicism, Morelli and Pepys singing Catholic music together etc., etc. (Bryant, ‘Peril’ p. 279, citing Rawl. A. 173 f 178; Bryant gives a series of excepts from the pamphlet @ pp. 280-2.)

In their ‘Plot Against Pepys’ (2007) the Longs make no reference to this pamphlet in their bibliography of published contemporary materials. In the main text of their work, at p 234, they provide an inaccurate and slightly muddled description of the circumstances of its composition, mixing them up them with those of second, unpublished, James text placed in Povey’s hands as Pepys’s representative, only when discussing the first of a number of contradictory paid deathbed confessions made by James for the benefit of the various parties to the trials. These were to result in an agreed ‘draw’ between prosecution and defense, both equally convinced of the others wickedness, malice, distortion and lies but neither able to prove they had the goods on the other. The world of the Longs seems to be one of white and black hats, their perspective that of Pepys, ignoring that seventeenth century political litigation had the iridescent surface colors and fetid odors of a pond of rotting gutter slush in which winners, losers and their counsel alike had either to drown or swim.

As for the pamphlets content: I have no doubt Smith used his practiced skill of twisting and distorting the original materials in the dramatized dialogue between Hewer and Pepys well beyond anything the original source would bear and in so doing mirrored, unwittingly, Pepys’s hysterical accusation of ‘perjury’ at Smith’s original testimony. As Bryant notes ‘ One by one, and with exquisite malicious wit, every one of Pepys’s cherished administrative virtues was misrepresented and turned to wickedness: … Thus the rule he had tried to establish for regular promotion by seniority instead of favor, was shown to be merely a cleaver devise for making money; …” Ill motivated no doubt the pamphlet is, but the text is no more disingenuous than he passages in the diary where Pepys quibbles away at the details of the sub-clause upon sub-clause of the terms of his oaths to avoid paying small fines, nor more consistently duplicitous than Pepys continued failure to account to Povey and pay the agreed share of the proceeds of the post of Treasurer to Tangier.

Robert Gertz   Link to this

Wonderful commentaries...I would just note that all systems of patronage to be successful for any length of time must provide an essential minimum of good service. Even the US political patronage system during the Tammany Hall,etc days did for a long time provide that minimum, indeed often providing capable men with experience of the neighborhoods and peoples they served that far exceeded that of the would-be reformers, a number of whom were as or more interested in reasserting control by their perceived "class" as bringing an end to corruption.
FDR may have put it best in his eulogy to a famed and notorious politico... "Big Tim Sullivan may not have understood modern politics but he understood the human heart."

Loyalty plays a major role in the success of such systems, even though it's often a hope rather than a given. And it can be argued that so long as minimum competence can be counted on ("Heck of a job, Brownie"), for a government's leaders to have enough confidence in the loyalty of the minions to rely on them for support and reasonable efficiency is a considerable benefit.

No wonder Pepys is valued...A loyal organization man with real ability. Truly a prize beyond rubies...

cum salis grano   Link to this

'Tis why the pen knife be invented and the serrated coin be invented, and various book keeping methods, cash registers and other means of having monies prevented from moving from one hand and slip quietly into the ether without moral reason.[see modern cash movement and wealth making devices such as derivative or toxic ass_ets]
Where ever the monies be, there will always be methods created to fatten another purse, as there will always be a thief legal or illegal to take advantage of the guileless.

One mans graft is another mans reward for services.
The problem has never been solved, only the name of method has changed.

Such a wondrous topic, how to be rich.

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