Wednesday 4 November 1668

Up, and by coach to White Hall; and there I find the King and Duke of York come the last night, and every body’s mouth full of my Lord Anglesey’s suspension being sealed; which it was, it seems, yesterday; so that he is prevented in his remedy at the Council; and, it seems, the two new Treasurers did kiss the King’s hand this morning, brought in by my Lord Arlington. They walked up and down together the Court this day, and several people joyed them; but I avoided it, that I might not be seen to look either way. This day also I hear that my Lord Ormond is to be declared in Council no more Deputy Governor of Ireland, his commission being expired: and the King is prevailed with to take it out of his hands; which people do mightily admire, saying that he is the greatest subject of any prince in Christendome, and hath more acres of land than any, and hath done more for his Prince than ever any yet did. But all will not do; he must down, it seems, the Duke of Buckingham carrying all before him. But that, that troubles me most is, that they begin to talk that the Duke of York’s regiment is ordered to be disbanded; and more, that undoubtedly his Admiralty will follow: which do shake me mightily, and I fear will have ill consequences in the nation, for these counsels are very mad. The Duke of York do, by all men’s report, carry himself wonderfull submissive to the King, in the most humble manner in the world; but yet, it seems, nothing must be spared that tends to, the keeping out of the Chancellor; and that is the reason of all this. The great discourse now is, that the Parliament shall be dissolved and another called, which shall give the King the Deane and Chapter lands; and that will put him out of debt. And it is said that Buckingham do knownly meet daily with Wildman and other Commonwealth-men; and that when he is with them, he makes the King believe that he is with his wenches; and something looks like the Parliament’s being dissolved, by Harry Brouncker’s being now come back, and appears this day the first day at White Hall; but hath not been yet with the King, but is secure that he shall be well received, I hear. God bless us, when such men as he shall be restored! But that, that pleases me most is, that several do tell me that Pen is to be removed; and others, that he hath resigned his place; and particularly Spragg tells me for certain that he hath resigned it, and is become a partner with Gawden in the Victualling: in which I think he hath done a very cunning thing; but I am sure I am glad of it; and it will be well for the King to have him out of this Office.

Thence by coach, doing several errands, home and there to dinner, and then to the Office, where all the afternoon till late at night, and so home. Deb. hath been abroad to-day with her friends, poor girle, I believe toward the getting of a place.

This day a boy is sent me out of the country from Impington by my cozen Roger Pepys’ getting, whom I visited this morning at his chamber in the Strand and carried him to Westminster Hall, where I took a turn or two with him and Sir John Talbot, who talks mighty high for my Lord of Ormond: and I perceive this family of the Talbots hath been raised by my Lord.

When I come home to-night I find Deb. not come home, and do doubt whether she be not quite gone or no, but my wife is silent to me in it, and I to her, but fell to other discourse, and indeed am well satisfied that my house will never be at peace between my wife and I unless I let her go, though it grieves me to the heart.

My wife and I spent much time this evening talking of our being put out of the Office, and my going to live at Deptford at her brother’s, till I can clear my accounts, and rid my hands of the town, which will take me a year or more, and I do think it will be best for me to do so, in order to our living cheap, and out of sight.


21 Annotations

Mary  •  Link

"which people do mightily admire ....."

The people here are not admiring in the modern sense, but are showing surprise and amazement.

Mary  •  Link

"in order to our living cheap, and out of sight"

All thoughts of a coach being put on hold, presumably.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"every body’s mouth full of...also I hear that...they begin to talk that ...and more"

Rumor is rife at this time, most it, ah, sketchy, as L&M note: SPOILERS.

-- The suspension of Anglesey was sealed on the 2nd, but his petitions to the King will be heard in the Privy Council; the new Joint-Treasurers will remain in place until 1671.

-- The widely admired Ormond, another victim of Buckingham and the rest of the anti-Clarendonians, will be dismissed next 14 March.

-- James Stuart's influence had suffered since Clarendon's fall; the change in the Treasureship of the Navy had been made without his consent; although the danger of having so much military power in one man's hand was put about, he was not in fact deprived of any of his commands.

-- The matter of the Deane and Chapter lands was but one of several of Buckingham's pie-in-the-sky fiscal schemes.

-- Penn will join Gauden in victualing and resign from the Navy Board next February.

Chris Squire  •  Link

‘admire, v. Etym: < French admire-r , a refashioning of Old French amirer < Latin 1. intr. To feel or express surprise, or astonishment; to wonder, to marvel, to be surprised.
†a. simply. Obs.
. . 1626 T. Hawkins tr. N. Caussin Holy Court 7 This would make you admire, your haire stand an end, and bloud congeale in your ueynes . . ‘ [OED]

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"And it is said that Buckingham do knownly meet daily with Wildman and other Commonwealth-men;"

L&M: Cf, the comment made in a newsletter of 18 February: 'The Duke of Buckingham is the great favourite, and his cabal are Hajor Wildman, Dr. Owen, and the rest of that fraternity, so that some say we are carried in Oliver's basket': CSPD 1667-8, p. 238.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"every body’s mouth full of my Lord Anglesey’s suspension being sealed"

L&M: The new Treasurers were Sir Thomas Littleton and Sir Thomas Osborne, who remained Joint-Treasurers of the Navy until 1671.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"Sir John Talbot, who talks mighty high for my Lord of Ormond: and I perceive this family of the Talbots hath been raised by my Lord."

L&M: The Talbots associated in Ireland were a Catholic 'Old English' family. (There were five brothers of whom one became archbishop of Dublin in 1669 and another, in 1685, the Earl, later the Duke of Tyrconnel.) Sir John Talbot of Laycock Abbey, Wilts. (M.P. for Knaresborough, Yorks.) belonged to an English branch of the family and was descended from the 1st Earl of Shrewsbury (d. 1453).

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Apologies for the interruption of letter service ... the dog had to be put to sleep unexpectedly, and I'm probably taking a Diary few days off.

Linda C  •  Link

So very sorry San Diego Sarah. Our dear pets are a part of our families and we grieve their loss.

Vincent Telford  •  Link

'My wife and I spent much time this evening talking of our being put out of the Office, and my going to live at Deptford at her brother’s, till I can clear my accounts, and rid my hands of the town, which will take me a year or more, and I do think it will be best for me to do so, in order to our living cheap, and out of sight.'

Is Sam in serious debt - but has only just realised it - avoiding contact with those he owes money to? Maybe he has cash flow problems - rich but not easy access to cash to pay of up and coming debts?

He always seems to be doing well with his job's under hand dealing potential after all he is doing up his place and shopping around for a carriage that presumably would involve costs looking after the horses to pull it.

Have I missed something? - what has caused this sudden change of plan to flee the city and 'rid my hands' of it plus live cheaply and out of sight - so no theatre going then or chasing after shop ladies, buying books, having friends around to dinner, showing off the newly furnished house he's currently buried in dust doing up etc.

Is he just anticipating a relatively new possibility that has emerged that he may soon lose his employment and is merely planning for that eventuality?

Tonyel  •  Link

My feeling is that Sam has been making, and spending, a lot of money in keeping up his social position and knows this could end at any moment. No safety nets in those days. Living cheap for a while is very sensible, while living out of sight in times of political upheaval is even more so.

Eric the Bish  •  Link

“… these counsels are very mad.” - I take the “very” here to mean “truly”, rather than “extremely”. Does that sound correct?

JB  •  Link

Condolences, SDS, very sorry for your loss.

Harry R  •  Link

Condolences for your loss from me too Sarah. Hope you're back with us soon.

john  •  Link

@SDS, let me add my condolences as well. Loss of a beloved companion tears out a piece of life.

john  •  Link

"but I avoided it, that I might not be seen to look either way."
"My wife and I spent much time this evening talking of our being put out of the Office,"

Interesting times -- when working at pleasure, a good strategy -- and more evidence that Elizabeth is kept informed.

Vincent Telford  •  Link

Yes Sam is keeping his wife well informed of the possibility that the show - their lifestyle - funded entirely by his income - may hit the rocks whilst at the same time Sam is optimistically funding an upgrade to their current lifestyle - a private coach and horses and a substantial refurbishment of their home.

My feeling is that he's lowering Elizabeth's expectations and sensibly figuring out a plan B in order to reduce his own anxiety about possible negative outcomes in the future and to reduce the pressure on him of Elizabeth's otherwise high expectations.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Thanks, everyone ... I think I'm ready for Pepys to divert my attention again. The Post Office will be ready to resume mail delivery shortly.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"The great discourse now is, that the Parliament shall be dissolved and another called, which shall give the King the Deane and Chapter lands; and that will put him out of debt."

'April 1649: An Act for abolishing of Deans, Deans and Chapters, Canons, Prebends and other offices and titles of or belonging to any Cathedral or Collegiate Church or Chappel within England and Wales.', in Acts and Ordinances of the Interregnum, 1642-1660, ed. C H Firth and R S Rait (London, 1911), pp. 81-104.
British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/acts-o…

JSTOR also has an article which is related to the subject. You need a subscription, but you may be able to access it through your public library on both sides of the Atlantic (don't know about Australia, etc.):
The Sales of Bishops' Lands in the English Revolution, 1646-1660
Ian Gentles
The English Historical Review
Vol. 95, No. 376 (Jul., 1980), pp. 573-596 (24 pages)
Published By: Oxford University Press
https://www.jstor.org/stable/568058

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

The volume of Domestic State Papers covering correspondence from Oct. 1668 to Dec. 1669 is at
https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=vik5AQAAM…
Nov. 4 1668,

@@@
Nov. 4 1668.
Bristol
Fras. Baylie to the Navy Commissioners.

The Edgar sailed out of Kingroad with other ships, and out-sailed them all.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 190.]

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Nov. 4 1668.
Chatham
Sir John Mennes and Commissioner John Tippetts to the Navy Commissioners.

Shall examine the informant, and such others as shall be thought fit, on the charge by Martha Norwood, and give a full account on their return.

Have paid off the Greenwich, and will begin the Antelope tomorrow;
have given order for fitting the Mary Rose, but the seamen will be unwilling to proceed without some of their money;
the country is cold, and they having been unpaid almost two years, are out of clothes and other necessaries;
desire advice therein.

Have 8,000/. remaining towards completing what is yet to be paid,
and expect 1,500/. more from Maidstone.
Will pay the poor widows and relations of workmen deceased, whose complaints are very grievous, and if anything remains, will discharge such as are of least use in the yard.

The widows or relations of the deceased at Portsmouth were paid by his Royal Highness's express command, which is also expected here.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 191.]

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Nov. 4 1668.
Yarmouth
Rich. Bower to Williamson.

Three vessels have arrived from Rotterdam with merchant goods,
one belonging to Major Burton formerly of this town, now of Rotterdam;

also a Yarmouth ship from Ostend, which reports the arrival of a vessel there with several hundred soldiers from Scotland.

Three boys going out of Yarmouth barbour to catch whitings, the boat overset, and all were drowned.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 197.]

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