Saturday 15 October 1664

My father and I up and walked alone to Hinchingbroke; and among the other late chargeable works that my Lord hath done there, we saw his water-works and the Oral which is very fine; and so is the house all over, but I am sorry to think of the money at this time spent therein. Back to my father’s (Mr. Sheply being out of town) and there breakfasted, after making an end with Barton about his businesses, and then my mother called me into the garden, and there but all to no purpose desiring me to be friends with John, but I told her I cannot, nor indeed easily shall, which afflicted the poor woman, but I cannot help it. Then taking leave, W. Joyce and I set out, calling T. Trice at Bugden, and thence got by night to Stevenage, and there mighty merry, though I in bed more weary than the other two days, which, I think, proceeded from our galloping so much, my other weariness being almost all over; but I find that a coney skin in my breeches preserves me perfectly from galling, and that eating after I come to my Inne, without drinking, do keep me from being stomach sick, which drink do presently make me.

We lay all in several beds in the same room, and W. Joyce full of his impertinent tricks and talk, which then made us merry, as any other fool would have done. So to sleep.

26 Annotations

First Reading

Terry F  •  Link

"the Ora"

transcribe L&M, who are unsure whether these are the spouts (note here) or the "brim of a pot or any other measure" (quoting a 1630 Latin-English dictionary in the Companion). My Cassell's has it that an ora is "an edge, rim, boundary" -- a lip, over which water could presumably drip.

PGE  •  Link

The above text reads "Oral" but the "l" should a footnote number one which in Wheatley reads "No clue to the meaning of the word ora in this position has been found."

Patricia  •  Link

"We lay all in several beds in the same room, and W. Joyce full of his impertinent tricks and talk, which then made us merry... So to sleep." What fun! We had the same experience this past weekend, due to a mix-up in our reservation: two couples who are thankfully very good friends. And we were very merry, and slept, except for the one of us who couldn't endure three snorers and went to sleep in the porch. Simple pleasures from Sam's century to ours.

Paul Chapin  •  Link

OED offers no help re "ora." Some specific anatomical usages it lists all seem to relate to the 'edge, rim, boundary' gloss Terry found.

Paul Chapin  •  Link

I can sympathize with Margaret. I always want all four of my adult children to get along well with each other, and when they don't, it disturbs me.

Paul Chapin  •  Link

galling = chafing or rubbing.
OED re "gall," v.1.:
1. trans. To make sore by chafing or rubbing.
c1440 Promp. Parv. 185/1 Gallyn, or make gallyd, strumo. 1530 Palsgr. 560/1, I galle a horse backe with sadell or otherwyse, je refoulle. Ibid., I gall, as one dothe his buttockes with rydyng, je me escorche les fesses. 1602 Shakes. Ham. v. i. 153 The toe of the Pesant comes so neere the heeles of our Courtier, hee galls his Kibe. 1696 tr. Du Mont's Voy. Levant 34 My Horse, who was gall'd under the Saddle-Bow. 1703 Moxon Mech. Exerc. 201 The Pole+may draw+your Thigh against the underside of the Cheek of the Lathe, and+Gawl, and also tire your Thigh. 1782 Cowper Gilpin 76 The snorting beast began to trot, Which gall'd him in his seat. 1821 J. Baillie Met. Leg., Columbus xlii, Base irons his noble pris'ner gall. 1844 Alb. Smith Adv. Mr. Ledbury lv. (1886) 168 [His] feet were somewhat galled with the hard walking of the previous days.

I can imagine a nice soft rabbit fur would help a lot.

Dave  •  Link

"we saw his water-works and the Ora[1] which is very fine;"

Sam may have been talking about a 'Spanish Noria,' a water-wheel driven by a mule, the context of the sentence would suggest this.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

Touching moment with Margaret who has seemed, probably due to Sam's tendency to ignore her except when commiserating with Dad over her behavior, a bit cool and distant as a mother. Looking back, one wonders if she's felt John has unfaired favored and spoiled Sam, his bright boy with the best prospects, over the others. And of course there's the religious issue which may have been much more important a difference between them than Sam indicates. I've wondered if some of Sam's past deplictions of Margaret as a bit 'addled' are in part the result of her unswaying Nonconformist beliefs which may be a dangerous embarrassment to both son and father now. Far easier to call her 'crazy' than admit she has not been persuaded to abandon her principles so easily as they.

jeannine  •  Link

"Touching moment with Margaret".... in many ways I think that Margaret was just expressing some basic maternal feelings and perhaps without a lot of issues behind it. I see it in my own mother-no matter how lousy some of her children have treated her, they are still 'her children' and she'd like them all to get along, to take care of each other, etc. With aging comes the inevitable knowledge that one won't be here forever, and, if one has concerns for a child's ability to survive without them, then they would want to ensure that someone in the family would do that. The feeling of protecting one's children doesn't necessarily end when they become adults.

Andrew Hamilton  •  Link

Ora

Here's a 21st Century use of the word to denote a three-dimensional mathematical surface. Probably no connection to Hinchinbroke, but "what if" Sandwich had ordered such a sculpture for his garden?

http://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt/o…

JWB  •  Link

ORA

We seem to have come to a genuine Foucault moment when the subject is vacant & readers can supply their oun meaning. I opt for a grotto, like in Pope's garden. You know the mouth to to the underworld, where Aeneas decides to follow the Sibyl, where Hercules decides...etc.

JWB  •  Link

What gall?

Mole skin on the toes, coney in the breeches and beaver on the head-rodent head to toe.

Mary  •  Link

ORA

The 'grotto' interpretation is very attractive. Grottos had become fashionable in Italy during the 17th century and the fashion had spread to France by the middle of the century. Perhaps Montagu was making a landscape fashion-statement. Various websites mention the extensive works that were done at Hinchingbroke in Edward's time, but I can find no details of any landscape projects.

Bradford  •  Link

Pursuant to the mention of "spouts," I rather like the idea of a large half-circular overflow basin, perhaps under some sort of covering, from which water could be dipped; and, when the level rises and the surface tension is broken, it spills over into a stone trough or miniature "moat" of some sort.

Why parents should expect assorted children who have grown up together to be friends once adults is another nice instance of hope springing eternal.

Deus ora pro me.

JWB  •  Link

On the other hand-

Ora is the plural of os, thus groto would have been os...whatever.

Andrew Hamilton  •  Link

Pope's Grotto

Still exists, in run-down form. I have been in it. It runs under Cross Deep Road in Twickenham between St. Catherine's School for Girls (where my grandchildren were once enrolled) and St. James's School for Boys, Roman Catholic schools that apparently occupy the site of Pope's gardens. If you stand in front of St. Catherine's facing St. James's (and beyond it the Thames) Grotto Road is to your left, and to your right is a pub called Pope's Grotto, which may be the wi-fi hotspot mentioned by JWB. I've been told Pope built at Twickenham because Catholics were not allowed to own property within 12 miles of central London. Does anyone know the truth of this story, and if true when the rule was established and when it ended?

I agree with the thought that the Ora at Hinchingbroke might be a grotto.

Pedro  •  Link

"and then my mother called me into the garden, and there but all to no purpose desiring me to be friends with John, but I told her I cannot, nor indeed easily shall, which afflicted the poor woman, but I cannot help it."

A recap on why Sam cannot be friends with John. Makes me wonder what would have happened if Sam's Diary had been discovered at the half way stage. Base slighting terms have been said about characters who may not think that the pen is mightier than the sword.

"to my chamber with a fire till late at night looking over my brother Thomas's papers, sorting of them, among which I find many base letters of my brother John's to him against me, and carrying on plots against me to promote Tom's having of his Banbury' Mistress, in base slighting terms, and in worse of my sister Pall, such as I shall take a convenient time to make my father know, and him also to his sorrow.

http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…

"and by and by my, father came, poor man, to me, and my brother John. After much talke and taking them up to my chamber, I did there after some discourse bring in any business of anger -- with John, and did before my father read all his roguish letters, which troubled my father mightily, especially to hear me say what I did, against my allowing any thing for the time to come to him out of my owne purse, and other words very severe, while he, like a simple rogue, made very silly and churlish answers to me, not like a man of any goodness or witt, at which I was as much disturbed as the other, and will be as good as my word in making him to his cost know that I will remember his carriage to me in this particular the longest day I live."

http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…

Pedro  •  Link

John Evelyn on the 15th...

Dined at the Lord Chancellor's, where was the Duke of Ormond, Earl of Cork, and Bishop of Winchester. After dinner, my Lord Chancellor and his lady carried me in their coach to see their palace1 (for he now lived at Worcester- House in the Strand), building at the upper end of St. James's-street, and to project the garden. In the evening, I presented him with my book on Architecture,1 as before I had done to his Majesty and the Queen-Mother. His lordship caused me to stay with him in his bed-chamber, discoursing of several matters very late, even till he was going into his bed.

pepf  •  Link

"we saw his water-works and the Oral which is very fine"

Anybody's guess; my first thought was "the Oval" in a park or garden context which the water-works seem to imply. The explanation of a misread "l" does invalidate this interpretation, of course, but is a twofold error of transliteration from Pepys' MS excluded beyond all question?

Michael Robinson  •  Link

" ... we saw his water-works and the Ora which is very fine ...”

Checking the Victoria County History, Huntingdonshire ii 135-9, no contemporary plans or descriptions of the work survive other than SP's occasional remarks which are quoted verbatim without comment. This, from Celia Feinnes 'Northern Tour' of 1697, is quoted also:

"The Gardens and Wilderness and Greenhouse will be very fine when quite ffinished with the dwarfe trees and gravell walks. There is a large fountaine or bason which is to resemble that in the privy garden at Whitehall, which will ffront the house. …”
http://www.pepysdiary.com/encyclo…

Second Reading

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

John Evelyn's Diary for the 15th ... "Dined at the Lord Chancellor's, where was the Duke of Ormond, Earl of Cork, and Bishop of Winchester. After dinner, my Lord Chancellor and his lady carried me in their coach to see their palace1 (for he now lived at Worcester House in the Strand), building at the upper end of St. James's-street, and to project the garden."

My guess is that they had lunch at Hyde's office/apartment at Whitehall or at his house in Piccadilly. Then they took a coach to where Hyde was living, Worcester House, the Strand.

In July 1664 Chancellor Edward Hyde, Earl of Clarendon lived at Worcester House in the Strand. (L&M footnote)

James Butler, Duke of Ormonde

Richard Boyle, 2nd Earl of Cork, assisted an impecunious Charles II with sums of money in recognition of which he was, in 1663, created Earl of Burlington (English Peerage). Presently, a great town house — Burlington House in Piccadilly — was being built, next door to the Lord Chancellor's.

In 1662, Bishop George Morley was translated to the See of Winchester.

"His lady" -- Frances Aylesbury Hyde, Countess of Clarendon (25 August 1617 – 8 August 1667) was the mother of Anne Hyde, mother-in-law to James II, and grandmother to Mary II and Queen Anne. The translator William Aylesbury was her brother. On 10 July 1634 Frances Aylesbury had became the second wife of Edward Hyde.

Sasha Clarkson  •  Link

re Robert G on Margaret:
"one wonders if she's felt John has unfaired favored and spoiled Sam, his bright boy with the best prospects, over the others"

Sam has hardly been "spoiled": he's worked, grafted & networked for everything he's got. With Sam's help and encouragement, young John certainly has had the same advantages given him as Sam, ie St Paul's and Cambridge; he just hasn't made as much of them. Nor did he have the good fortune or ability to impress an influential relative with his personal qualities. Poor brother Tom of course did not have those advantages offered, but given his speech impediment, and the fact that examinations were oral, there was little point given the social realities of the day.

Sam's worldly success, and his closeness to old John may well have helped inspire young John's resentment, but one can't really blame the old man. Old John needed an adult helpmeet to manage the complex family affairs resulting from uncle Robert's will, which specifically named old John and Sam, as his eldest son, as heirs. At the moment however, Brampton is of no net benefit to Sam personally, as he is subsiding his parents living there.

Chris Squire UK  •  Link

Re: ‘ . . we saw his water-works and the Oral . . ‘

‘noria, n. < Spanish < Arabic < Aramaic (Syriac) . . Originally in Spain and Spanish-speaking countries but subsequently more widely, esp. in the East: a device for raising water from a stream or river, consisting of a chain of pots or buckets revolving round a wheel which take in water when submerged and discharge it when they turn over at the top.

1696 P. Ayres Revengeful Mistress 24 Their usual Recreation in the Evenings, was..to view the Norias or admirable Water-works, with which the Spaniards industriously water their Gardens, or supply their Fountains . . ‘

(OED)
……………
Pope’s Twickenham grotto is now in the hands of a trust which will restore it: http://www.popesgrotto.org.uk/ In Britain today we are (as in Pepys’ day) too poor or too mean to house our homeless - leaving them to sleep in the street - but unlimited funds are available to restore old buildings in the nicer parts of the capital like Twickenham; so Strawberry Hill (http://www.strawberryhillhouse.or…) and Turner’s house hve been restored (http://turnershouse.org/) and work is about to start on Marble Hill (https://twickerati.wordpress.com/…).

The former Pope’s Grotto pub is now the Alexander Pope hotel.

Harvey L  •  Link

Re Sasha's comment:
"Sam has hardly been "spoiled": he's worked, grafted & networked for everything he's got. With Sam's help and encouragement, young John certainly has had the same advantages given him as Sam, ie St Paul's and Cambridge; he just hasn't made as much of them."

No further explanation needed as to why young John resents his older brother... he has the choice of saying 'Sam was favoured over me and it's not fair', OR 'Sam worked harder than me, and despite his help I never got off my backside, so Sam deserves what he has got.'

Not hard to see which version a younger brother might prefer to believe.

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