Tuesday 4 December 1660

To Whitehall to Sir G. Carteret’s chamber, where all the officers met, and so we went up to the Duke of York, and he took us into his closet, and we did open to him our project of stopping the growing charge of the fleet by paying them in hand one moyety, and the other four months hence. This he do like, and we returned by his order to Sir G. Carteret’s chamber, and there we did draw up this design in order to be presented to the Parliament. From thence I to my Lord’s, and dined with him and told him what we had done to-day. Sir Tho. Crew dined with my Lord to-day, and we were very merry with Mrs. Borfett, who dined there still as she has always done lately. After dinner Sir Tho. and my Lady to the Playhouse to see “The Silent Woman.” I home by water, and with Mr. Hater in my chamber all alone he and I did put this morning’s design into order, which being done I did carry it to Sir W. Batten, where I found some gentlemen with him (Sir W. Pen among the rest pretty merry with drink) playing at cards, and there I staid looking upon them till one o’clock in the morning, and so Sir W. Pen and I went away, and I to bed. This day the Parliament voted that the bodies of Oliver, Ireton, Bradshaw, &c.,1 should be taken up out of their graves in the Abbey, and drawn to the gallows, and there hanged and buried under it: which (methinks) do trouble me that a man of so great courage as he was, should have that dishonour, though otherwise he might deserve it enough.

44 Annotations

First Reading

vincent  •  Link

"..This day the Parliament voted .....should have that dishonour, though otherwise he might deserve it enough..."
Falsum etiam est verum quod consuit superior [rex].
from Syrus, Maximus

A. De Araujo  •  Link

"the bodies.....should be taken up out of their graves....to the gallows and there hanged" The past is indeed a foreign country!!!

dirk  •  Link

"This day the Parliament voted..."

I vividly recall the scene from the BBC1 series "Charles II - The Power and the Passion" (part 2 went on TV last sunday)... And the comment of the narrator that whatever had been the faults of Cromwell, he (the narrator) regretted that there was no tomb one could go to, to contemplate on a man whose role in English history has been so vital.

dirk  •  Link

Maps of London

The map references are now where they should be. I had looked for a place to put them under "Places", and overlooked "General Reference".

vincent  •  Link

"...our project of stopping the growing charge of the fleet by paying them in hand one moyety, and the other four months hence..."
brilliant, sack them ['tis redundancy time ]{Lay off} then give half, so no more running up the tab [bills] then pay of the ballance off latter[no interest of course?].
one moyety [moiety-one half or equal shares}
ME moite,

vincent  •  Link

"...we returned by his order to Sir G. Carteret's chamber, and there we did draw up this design in order to be presented to the Parliament…” “got ’ SGC’s moniker on the plan”
“…I home by water, and with Mr. Hater in my chamber all alone he and I did put this morning�s design into order, which being done I did carry it to Sir W. Batten,…” then all the nitty gritty had to be done , it is all in the details and fine print {then Kinkos}. It looks like business before pleasure {the play that is:”… With such we mingle neither brains nor breasts;
Our wishes, like to those make public feasts,
Are not to please the cook’s taste, but the guests..”’}

but he did get a little “fun”
“Aperte mala cum est mulier, tum demum est bona” Syrus , Maxims

helena murphy  •  Link

If I am not mistaken there is a fine imposing sculpture of Oliver Cromwell on horseback outside the Houses of Parliament in London for all those who wish to contemplate him and his role in the history of the three kingdoms.This is probably preferable to a tomb within the Abbey,of which many are so well buried beneath the Henry VII chapel that they cannot be seen at all.

Kevin S  •  Link

Forty years ago it was accepted, in Cambridge at least, that Oliver Cromwell's head was buried beneath the quad of Corpus Christi College. I have not been able to find any recent references to this. Another myth?

PHE  •  Link

Greatest Briton?
Its interesting to note that despite Cromwell's fall from grace described here, he recently came within the top 10 of the 'Great Britons' public vote.

WGY  •  Link

I believe that Cromwell's head is somewhere in the precincts of Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge (where he had been a student, and whose portrait of him used to be curtained so that he could be hidden during the loyal toast)

Orrin  •  Link

Wow! Thanks for the map, Dirk. I had been noticing when I looked at the various map references given here how circumscribed the area that our Sam perambulates. It did seem a bit restricted. And yes, I knew that London was much smaller but *that* much smaller?! Wow!

A very nice addition to the site. Thanks again.

Brian G McMullen  •  Link

The other map that has proved very helpful is the Rocque 1746 map. You can find the link in the Maps area of the General Reference. Many of the locations mentioned in the diary are noted on the map. I have taken many a 'virtual' stroll with SP as he has decribed his commutes.

Tom Carr  •  Link

Oliver Cromwell's Head
Apparently Oliver's head has had quite a history itself.
http://www.historic-uk.com/Histor…

The History Channel also did a story on this some time ago. The name of the program was "History's Lost & Found", but alas, I've been unable to find the episode.

Nix  •  Link

Paying off the balance later --

I believe the proposal included interest (if this is the same one discussed earlier). But of course the discharged sailors needed (or wanted) their money NOW, if only to go off on a bender. So some lively entrepreneurs undoubtedly step in to buy the notes for cash, at a substantial discount, and turn a nice profit. As ever through history, the working stiff gets stiffed.

Terry Downing  •  Link

John Bradshaw, Oliver Cromwell, Henry Ireton and Thomas Pride were all posthumously tried for high treason. They were found guilty and in January 1661 their corpses were exhumed and hung in chains at Tyburn.

Nix  •  Link

"a man of so great courage" --

Recall that Samuel's family (and Montague's) hail from Cromwell's home turf in Huntingdon, and as members of local gentry presumably have a long history with him on both the personal and the political levels.

Patrick Blake  •  Link

Another Cromwellian whose body was disinterred from the Abbey and reburied elsewhere was that of my ancestor, Admiral Robert Blake, whose efforts on behalf of both country and the Navy preceded Pepy's by only a few years.

vincent  •  Link

another source for Ben Jonson "The Silent Women".
title for your perusal
eotsw10.zip - 125 KB Plain text (zipped)
Jonson, Ben, 1573?-1637
from
http://gutenberg.net/cgi-bin/sear…

Kevin S  •  Link

WGY: I stand corrected. I misremembered my colleges - Sidney Sussex is adjacent to Corpus, if I remember rightly. As to Cromwell's head, it did indeed have an 'interesting' history. According to Britannica it was on display in London for 25 years(!?), after which it ended up in the hands of a 'private collector'. As A. De Araujo says: "The past is indeed a foreign country"

George Peabody  •  Link

Well, the past is perhaps not all that foreign - witness the recent post-mortem travels of Albert Einstein's brain!

Peter  •  Link

There is a very full description of the fate of Cromwell's head in the final chapter of Antonia Fraser's book "Cromwell Our Chief of Men", including photos ... (not for the faint-hearted!). As the entire body was embalmed before the original burial, the head was in good condition in spite of being at mercy of the elements for more than 20 years on a spike.
Apparently a whole series of legends grew up to the effect that the body disinterred was not really Cromwell's or that a different body had been substituted before the hanging and decapitation. Some apparently claimed that he had been secretly buried on the old battlefield of Naseby and that the tomb in the Abbey was empty.
Antonia Fraser says: "Recently (she wrote the book in the mid-1970's) in a correspondence in The Times on the subject of Cromwell's last resting place, Mr Reginald Paget MP, supporting the Naseby theory, produced an even more remarkable link with history: his father that his grandfather had known an old man in Naseby whose great uncle remembered as a boy the coach arriving in the night from London. Spades were collected; the coach then departed in the direction of the battlefield, and the next day a certain field had been freshly ploughed although it was not the ploughing season." An excellent story, although Antonia Fraser concludes that the head and the body hanged and decapitated were really those of Cromwell.

Laura K  •  Link

tried posthumously

Ah, nothing like a fair trial. A bit of history to make Joe Stalin proud.

vincent  •  Link

"aperte...bona."
a translation when a woman is shown to be bad she is at last good.

Mary Merivel  •  Link

The whole story about Oliver Cromwell's head is published here (with photos and all the things you want to know about the subject):
http://edweb.camcnty.gov.uk/serv/…

I'd like to bless Mr. Pepys for his comment about "dishonour", because there was no thing so repulsive after Restoration than that barbarous punishment of dead. I think King Charles II was the man with a great lack of taste.

Second Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"John Bradshaw, Oliver Cromwell, Henry Ireton and Thomas Pride were all posthumously tried for high treason. They were found guilty and in January 1661 their corpses were exhumed and hung in chains at Tyburn.

This very day in Commons the exhumation plan was proposed:

Regicides Carcases to be taken up. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…

Resolved, That the Carcases of Oliver Cromwell, Henry Ireton, John Bradshaw, and Thomas Pride, whether buried in Westminster Abbey, or elsewhere, be, with all Expedition, taken up, and drawn upon a Hurdle to Tiburne, and there hanged up in their Coffins for some time; and after that buried under the said Gallows: And that James Norfolke Esquire, Serjeant at Arms attending the House of Commons, do take care that this Order be put in effectual Execution.

Ordered, That the Lords Concurrence herein be desired: And Mr. Tytus is to carry it to the Lords.

Bill  •  Link

"the Parliament voted that the bodies of Oliver, Ireton, Bradshaw, &c.,1 should be taken up out of their graves in the Abbey..."

The names of Cromwell, Ireton, and Bradshaw are not found in the Registers of Westminster Abbey. Colonel Chester, in his edition of the "Registers" (p. 521), prints the royal warrant for a further exhumation of Commonwealth personages, dated September 9th, 1661. This warrant contains twenty-one names, and these bodies were re-interred on the green on the north side of the Abbey, between the north transept and the west end.
---Wheatley (1896).

Sasha Clarkson  •  Link

It's interesting that Cromwell was referred to as "Oliver", but the rest by their surnames.

Incidentally, he still has his fans here in Wales. There is a firm in Welsh-speaking Cardigan known as "O C Davies A'r Mab" (Oliver Cromwell Davies and son.)

Tonyel  •  Link

For UK listeners, a new series of extracts from the diary starts next week on BBC Radio 4.
Unfortunately, judging by the trailer, the readings are in a quiet, rather dull voice. My mental image of Sam's speech is that it would be lively and amusing as befits a man who was obviously very popular and sociable.

Matt Newton  •  Link

I think the statue referred to by Helen, above, is of Richard the Lion Heart.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

The Parliamentary win at Naseby, June 1645, inspired this song and the still relevant phrase, "The World Turned Upside-Down":

The text is found in the Thomason Tracts (669. f. 10 (47)), dated 8 April 1646.
The World Turned Upside Down (To the Tune of, When the King enioys his own again)

Listen to me and you shall hear,
news hath not been this thousand year:
Since Herod, Caesar, and many more,
you never heard the like before.
Holy-dayes are despis'd,
new fashions are devis'd.
Old Christmas is kickt out of Town.
Yet let's be content, and the times lament, you see the world turn'd upside down.

The wise men did rejoyce to see our Savior Christs Nativity:
The Angels did good tidings bring,
the Sheepheards did rejoyce and sing.
Let all honest men, take example by them.
Why should we from good Laws be bound?
Yet let's be content, and the times lament, you see the world turn'd upside down.

Command is given, we must obey,
and quite forget old Christmas day:
Kill a thousand men, or a Town regain,
we will give thanks and praise amain.
The wine pot shall clinke, we will feast and drinke.
And then strange motions will abound.
Yet let's be content, and the times lament, you see the world turn'd upside down.

Our Lords and Knights, and Gentry too,
doe mean old fashions to forgoe:
They set a porter at the gate,
that none must enter in thereat.
They count it a sin, when poor people come in.
Hospitality itselfe is drown'd.
Yet let's be content, and the times lament, you see the world turn'd upside down.

The serving men doe sit and whine,
and thinke it long ere dinner time:
The Butler's still out of the way,
or else my Lady keeps the key,
The poor old cook, in the larder doth look,
Where is no goodnesse to be found,
Yet let's be content, and the times lament, you see the world turn'd upside down.

To conclude, I'le tell you news that's right,
Christmas was kil'd at Naseby fight:
Charity was slain at that same time,
Jack Tell troth too, a friend of mine,
Likewise then did die, roast beef and shred pie,
Pig, Goose and Capon no quarter found.
Yet let's be content, and the times lament, you see the world turn'd upside down.

Merry Christmas, 1660 ... I hope it's celebrated with more content and less lament this year.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"This day the Parliament voted that the bodies of Oliver, Ireton, Bradshaw, &c.,1 should be taken up out of their graves in the Abbey, and drawn to the gallows, and there hanged and buried under it:"

L&M: CJ, viii. 197; the word used was 'carcases' not 'bodies'. Sentence on these leading regicides was to be executed on 30 January next, the anniversary of their crime. All had died before the Restoration, and had recently been attained by parliament. See
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… and
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
The three mentioned had been buried among the kings and queens in Westminster Abbey; Pride, at Nonsuch.

Third Reading

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"which (methinks) do trouble me that a man of so great courage as he was, should have that dishonour, though otherwise he might deserve it enough."

“But men must know, that in this theater of man's life it is reserved only for God and angels to be lookers on.” -- Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1626)

Oliver, Ireton, Bradshaw, &c. ventured all, and we argue today about their motivations and legacies. That makes them immortal in my book, regardless of what you think of their actions.

As Pepys will experience later in the Diary, and after the Diary when he was unexpectedly implicated in the Popish Plots, just doing your job made you a participant in the dangerous Stuart theater -- there was no safety net, and your actions declared your allegencies.
Then men like Anthony Ashley-Cooper used you and your reputation for their own political ends.

We study the Diary because all these courageous actors are immortals. God and the angels did not appear to interfere, even if the arc of progress towards a more perfect union can be seen in the broad strokes.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"It's interesting that Cromwell was referred to as "Oliver", but the rest by their surnames."

'Cromwell' might refer to Richard, Oliver's son, depending on the context.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Vincent, we talked about this yestrday -- at length!

"Falsum etiam est verum quod consuit superior" -- I can't find a direct translation, but:
"Falsum etiam est verum quod constituit superior" means "Even false becomes true when one’s master says so" (Publilius Syrus, Maxims, 228).

“Aperte mala cum est mulier, tum demum est bona” means "A woman when she is openly bad, is at least honest."
[Sorry, ladies -- chauvinism has been around for a long, long time.]

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"{then Kinkos}."

Kinko's is a store you go to in the USA for office supplies and assistance, e.g. when you need to xerox a long document many times.

At one time Kinko's was also in London, but sold out to The Color Company in 2009. Also Kinko's formerly operated in Australia, Mexico, and the Netherlands but withdrew from those markets in late 2008 due to low demand.

Amazing what you learn annotating Pepys.

This is a good example of why Phil asks us not to make our comments too local or current.

Stephane Chenard  •  Link

On Parliament's resolution of today: At least Sam expresses an opinion, however timid. Our other sources - admittedly scarce, as we're rarely in the barbershops of 1660 London - are either matter-of-fact to the point of indifference (Thomas Rugg his summary of Mercurius Politicus, written in hindsight 'tho while Oliver's head was still overseeing London, Venetian ambassador Mocenigo his dispatch of next week) or entirely silent on the matter (John Evelyn his diary, which will picks up after a few days' hiatus, ironically to marvel at "incomparable" heads he saw at court, made by Holbein in this case). The only ballad mentioning Oliver in late 1660 or 1661 in the collection at https://ebba.english.ucsb.edu will appear, however, on the occasion of his transfer to Tyburn and it does come with a couple of interesting woodcuts; it ends with "there is an end to a stincking crew" and "vivat Rex", so no deviation from the official Line there.

'Tis Parliament's decision, however, with no sign of the king having asked for anything like it. It remains subject to the Lords' approval, and the proceedings at https://www.british-history.ac.uk… suggest that it wasn't an instant rush to the vote: The matter of the attainder of Cromwell (his exemption from pardon) was taken up three times, interspersed with humdrum private business ("humble Petition of Edmond Challenor Esquire" and "Earl of Dorset's Estate"), of the sort which the king had precisely asked Parliament not to waste its time on in the days left before recess, before the Glorious Resolution on "Regicides Carcases to be taken up" finally comes up too. We phant'sy there were quite a few conferences whispered in the hallways on Whether To Do It Or Not while the problems of Esq. Challenor got the floor. We wish something like Grey's Debates or C-SPAN had been there already.

Michael Sheahan  •  Link

Sarah
Many thanks for the Latin translations and the informaton about Kinkos. I did Latin for five years at school but most of it is long forgotten. (As you say. you talked about this to Vincent, yesterday!).
I got into the Diary toward the end of the last run-through and it a treat to start from the beginning, with the added attraction of seeing the layers of comment gradually developing ike the age rings of a tree.

Stephane Chenard  •  Link

On translating Latin: We are informed that Mr. Google in his great booke-shop keeps a lad, full of Artifice and Intelligence, who translates Latin on request, along with a few other languages of greater daily usefulness such as Chichewa or Sepedi. He renders "Falsum etiam est verum quod consuit superior" as "It is also true that what was said above is false" (and in the Chichewa language of Malawi as "Ndizowonanso kuti zomwe zanenedwa pamwambapa ndi zabodza"). Leave him your learned maxims from Cicero at https://translate.google.com, and weep if ye will for all these hours offered to declensions and the ablative case.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

The last item of interest from the House of Commons today:

"Exceptions in Act of Grace.
¶Ordered, That the Committee, to whom the Bill of Attainder was referred, do, with all convenient Expedition, prepare and bring in a Bill, as well in relation to those Persons who are named in the Act of General Pardon and Oblivion, to have sat upon the late King's Majesty, of blessed Memory, and are since dead; as for the inflicting Penalties on those, who, by the said Act of General Pardon and Oblivion, are reserved to future Pains and Penalties, not extending to Life: And they are to meet in Mr. Speaker's Chamber, at Two of the Clock this Afternoon; and so to sit de die in diem, till this Business be perfected; the Sitting of any Grand Committee in the meantime notwithstanding."

The important bit is "... as for the inflicting Penalties on those, who, by the said Act of General Pardon and Oblivion, are reserved to future Pains and Penalties, not extending to Life: ..."

I.E. Sandwich's cousin, Sir Gilbert Pickering MP, is probably suffering sleepless nights. Yes, he's escaped the hangman's noose (and worse), but prison is still a possibility for many of the remaining lesser regicides.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…

Log in to post an annotation.

If you don't have an account, then register here.