Monday 2 November 1668

Up, and a cold morning, by water through bridge without a cloak, and there to Mr. Wren at his chamber at White Hall, the first time of his coming thither this year, the Duchess coming thither tonight, and there he and I did read over my paper that I have with so much labour drawn up about the several answers of the officers of this Office to the Duke of York’s reflections, and did debate a little what advice to give the Duke of York when he comes to town upon it. Here come in Lord Anglesy, and I perceive he makes nothing of this order for his suspension, resolving to contend and to bring it to the Council on Wednesday when the King is come to town to-morrow, and Mr. Wren do join with him mightily in it, and do look upon the Duke of York as concerned more in it than he. So to visit Creed at his chamber, but his wife not come thither yet, nor do he tell me where she is, though she be in town, at Stepney, at Atkins’s. So to Mr. Povy’s to talk about a coach, but there I find my Lord Sandwich, and Peterborough, and Hinchingbroke, Charles Harbord, and Sidney Montagu; and there I was stopped, and dined mighty nobly at a good table, with one little dish at a time upon it, but mighty merry. I was glad to see it: but sorry, methought, to see my Lord have so little reason to be merry, and yet glad, for his sake, to have him cheerful. After dinner up, and looked up and down the house, and so to the cellar; and thence I slipt away, without taking leave, and so to a few places about business, and among others to my bookseller’s in Duck Lane, and so home, where the house still full of dirt by painters and others, and will not be clean a good while. So to read and talk with my wife till by and by called to the office about Sir W. Warren’s business, where we met a little, and then home to supper and to bed. This day I went, by Mr. Povy’s direction, to a coachmaker near him, for a coach just like his, but it was sold this very morning.

20 Annotations

First Reading

Robert Gertz  •  Link

"So to Mr. Povy’s to talk about a coach, but there I find my Lord Sandwich, and Peterborough, and Hinchingbroke, Charles Harbord, and Sidney Montagu;..." Hmmn...Peterborough, Povy, Sandwich all share a history over Tangier. I wonder if the ex-Tangierites have something in mind or if it's just enjoying Povy's famed hospitality.

Clement  •  Link

"... and there he and I did read over my paper that I have with so much labour drawn up about the several answers of the officers of this Office to the Duke of York’s reflections..."

The text of Sam's notes are mentioned and cited here:

"As soon as these replies came in to the duke they were passed over to Pepys, the organiser of the whole transaction. He proceeded to digest them into a short form for the convenience of the duke, and on 2 Nov. forwarded this summary to Mr. Wren, the duke's secretary, with a letter, in which he gives his own opinion of the state of the navy office. 'The Pest of this Office,' he writes,

"has all along been an indifference in some of the principal members of it in seeing their worke done, provided they found themselves furnished with any tollerable pretence for their personal failures in the doeing it; whereas the value of the Naval Action has been such as to render every branch of it considerable, and every remiss performance thereof more chargeable to his Majesty then the wages of such an Officer many times told."

I'd say others on the Navy Board may assign a differnt identity to the "Pest of this Office."

From The English Historical Review, Vol. 12, (edited by Creighton et al.) p. 44. Accessed 2 November, 2011, from this link.…

The article contains an excellent account of this whole affair.

martinb  •  Link

"dined mighty nobly at a good table, with one little dish at a time upon it"

Tapas for Sandwich?

#He's just back from Spain, after all.#

Chris Faulkner  •  Link

Dining in the Russian rather than the French style? Or is it a bit early for this? I'm not sure when dining in courses rather than everyting on the table at once came in.

Dorothy  •  Link

I think Russian style came in about the middle of the 19th century. I don't know what is going on here, but I like the idea that Sandwich brought tapas back from Spain!

A. De Araujo  •  Link

"with one little dish at a time upon it"
Tapas is like an appetizer,then comes the entree that is not necessarily a little dish.

Andrew Hamilton  •  Link

A la russe is the way I was raised, though usually without the clutter of miscellaneous specialized utensils. But when we lived in France my mother discovered that it was considered polite to eat when served, rather than waiting for the head of the table to begin (and letting things get colder). I have followed that practice ever since.

languagehat  •  Link

"Tapas is like an appetizer,then comes the entree that is not necessarily a little dish."

I think of tapas as something to be consumed at bars, without any entree to follow. But I have never been in Spain; my experience is pure NYC.

Australian Susan  •  Link

Dining Fashions

Mrs Beeton (writing mid-19th c) describes the a la Russe style in her cook books, but in her biography (Kathryn Hughes, 2006), the author points out that a lot of what she wrote was aspirational for the middle classes. Eating a la Russe required far more crockery and cutlery than the old style (a lot of dishes put out at once, eaten from and then cleared and a second service of dishes put out) so she does describe and give table layouts for the old style in the older editions of her cook books. I have 1890s and 1907 editions (passed down from relatives) and these solely refer to the a la Russe fashion, so it must have become the common practice sometime between the 1860s and the 1890s. By then a formal dinner had crystallised into the haut-bourgeois style of : hors d'oeuvre, soup, fish, entree, remove [a roast], roti [a luxury such a rare game], vegetables, pudding, savoury, dessert [cheese and fruits]
Maybe this was a fancy way of serving up meals which Sandwich had picked up in Spain? I have no knowledge of dining habits in high society in Spain in the 17th century. Apropos of these fashions in serving food - Jane Austen would have been used to the old style of serving up dinners and it produces teeth-grinding irritation in me to see anything else being done in tv adaptations.

Second Reading

Ivan  •  Link

I just wondered why Mr Pepys, after exploring the house and going down to the cellar, felt it necessary to slip away "without taking leave". I take it he hadn't been helping himself to Mr Povy's wine!!

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"to Mr. Wren at his chamber at White Hall, the first time of his coming thither this year, the Duchess coming thither tonight"

The Duke and Duchess of York usually moved from Whitehall to St James during the summer. (L&M) (Matthew Wren was secretary to the Duke. )

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Ivan is correct in pointing out that Pepys, Sandwich et al are having lunch at Povy's house ... and Povy hasn't been to Spain. Fun as the tapas thought is, there is another reason for multiple small dishes being served.

Like maybe the kitchen wasn't prepared for someone to invite himself to lunch, and if it had been anyone else, Povy's butler would have said "not today".

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

I haven't had any luck, even using WayBack, accessing Clement's article about Anglesey's dismissal.

But in the process I did find a more contemporary dissertation on the subject:

By Rebecca Kathern Hayes-Steuck
A Dissertation submitted to the
Department of History, Florida State University
in partial fulfillment of the
requirements for the degree of
Doctor of Philosophy

Degree Awarded:
Fall Semester, 2005

Copyright © 2005
Rebecca Kathern Hayes-Steuck
All Rights Reserved…

Pages 83 - 105 on the ebook monitor at the top, OR 74 – 96 by page count:

Happy homework!

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

The volume of Domestic State Papers covering correspondence from Oct. 1668 to Dec. 1669 is at…

Nov. 2 1668.
Sir John Mennes and Commissioner Tippetts to the Navy Commissioners.

Wondering at the ships not coming, went down to encourage the pilots to venture,
and took the clerk of the cheque who mustered them.
Spent the ebb in visiting Sheerness;
then went on board the Greenwich and sailed, passing the wrecks at the Muscle bank, and brought the ships to Chatham, 6 p.m.

Want the money to pay them off.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 168.]

Nov. 2 1668.
F. Hosier, muster master, to Pepys.

The Crown and Norwich have sailed by,
and the Sapphire come up with 117 men.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 169.]

Nov. 2 1668.
Advertisement of four oxen lost from Ashdown Forest, Sussex;
3/. reward offered for their discovery to Benj. Randall, near the Churchyard, Bethlehem.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 170.]

Nov. 2 1668.
Chas. Whittington to Williamson.

The frequent storms and uncertain weather have somewhat put a stop to trade,
and they begin to be fearful of the winter storms, as this port suffered very much in their shipping last year by their raslı adventures.

Several vessels have sailed for Holland with lead, butter, and cloth, one of which was driven aground in the Humber, and is forced to be unloaded, the cloth being much damaged.

Departure of other vessels.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 171.]

Nov. 2 1668.
Ra. Hope to Rob. Francis.

Mr. King will present you with a token from me, of which I beg your acceptance,
and a continuance of your kindness.

I send salutes to Mr. Eldrich [Aldridge] and his mother;

send me by Friday's post the names of the sheriffs, or at least, who is pricked for Warwickshire.
The mayor and the rest of the officers for the year ensuing were sworn yesterday, but the mayor failed to make that public feast which has been usual on that day, to the regret of many, who take it as a dishonour to the city.

Mr. Lapworth, the new sheriff, still continues absent;

Mr. King is employed by the city with their address to the Council Board for a remedy; for if he can so evade the service, others may follow his example.

Mr. King intends to beg your assistance and direction, which I hope will not be wanting.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 172.]

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

[Nov. 2.] 1668
Sir Nich. Armorer to Lord Arlington.

I spoke to you for Walter Chetwind of Ingestree, that he may not be pricked sheriff for Staffordshire.

His father, who is living and has most of the estate, has lately been sheriff for
Warwickshire and was sheriff for Staffordshire, and to charge the son while the
father is living has not been known in that country.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 173.]

Nov. 2 1668.
Jo. Carlisle to Williamson.

I have made bold to trouble you with the accounts I am charged with by Messrs. Lloyd and Blayney.

They were allowed by the Lords Commissioners 2 years since, and an order given to Lord Ashley for payment of my salary.
I was then promised that as soon as Mr. Cooper, Treasurer for Prizes at Dover,
paid in his money, I should be paid.

I have been no storekeeper since, having delivered all the King's goods in my
custody to Mr. Eady and Rob. Everard, by the Commissioners' orders;
I send the receipts and Capt. Kingdon's letter, as also an affidavit sworn before the mayor that the Commissioners were satisfied, and that they stated my salary should be the first paid of any storekeeper in England.

I cannot understand why Mr. Blayney should detain my money.
I hope you will be the means of putting a period to the accounts.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 174.]

Nov. 2 1668.
Jo. Cooke to Williamson.

Sec. Trevor desires you will get information from your correspondent at Rochelle whether Sieur Isaac Rondeau, an advocate in the Parliament of Saintes, is in prison, or how disposed of.
He was bred a Protestant, but for the love of a Roman Catholic gentlewoman,
embraced her religion that he might have her, and after marriage returned to his former religion.

I know how capital a crime this is in France;
I give this touch of the man's history, so as to give some light to your correspondent.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 175.]

Nov. 2 1668.
Rich. Watts to [Williamson].

About 80 ships sailed this afternoon,
the wind suddenly changing to north-east.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 176.]

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Nov. 2 1668.
[Col. Rich.?] Talbot to Williamson.

Pray give an order for entering a caveat in Sec. Trevor's office that no letter be
granted from the King to the prejudice of Rob. Harpoll, a minor, without Col. Rich. Talbot being first heard in his behalf.
A letter was surreptitiously obtained in Sec. Morice's time, which had like to have ruined the child in his fortune.
His father and grandfather were both killed in the King's service.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 178.]

Nov. 2. 1668
John Pocock to Hickes.

A vessel from Portugal reports that the next day after she put to sea, she was chased by 4 Sallee men-of-war for several hours,
and would have been taken had not the winds favoured her;
she escaped into Villa Nova, where a boat came out to pilot her over the bar,
when the 4 men-of-war came close up, and there lay muzzled for some time, and then stood to sea.

They took a small vessel of Topsham 4 days before, but the men escaped in their boats to Villa Nova, the people of which say they have of late taken and trepanned several English ships of good force.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 248, No. 179.]

Gerald Berg  •  Link

"trepanned several English ships" Core sampling to find where the wood comes from, as SC pointed out yesterday and TF today?

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