Wednesday 26 August 1663
Up, and after doing something in order to the putting of my house in order now the joynery is done, I went by water to White Hall, where the Court full of waggons and horses, the King and Court going this day out towards the Bath, and I to St. James’s, where I spent an hour or more talking of many things to my great content with Mr. Coventry in his chamber, he being ready to set forth too with the Duke to-day, and so left him, and I meeting Mr. Gauden, with him to our offices and in Sir W. Pen’s chamber did discourse by a meeting on purpose with Mr. Waith about the victualling business and came to some issue in it.
So home to dinner, and Mr. Moore came and dined with me, and after dinner I paid him some money which evened all reckonings between him and me to this day, and for my Lord also I paid him some money, so that now my Lord owes me, for which I have his bond, just 700l..
After long discourse with him of the fitness of his giving me a receipt for this money, which I for my security think necessary and he otherwise do not think so, at last, after being a little angry, and I resolving not to let go my money without it, he did give me one.
Thence I took him, and he and I took a pleasant walk to Deptford and back again, I doing much business there. He went home and I home also, indoors to supper, being very glad to see my house begin to look like itself again, hoping after this is over not to be in any dirt a great while again, but it is very handsome, and will be more when the floors come to be of one colour.
So weary to bed.
Pleased this day to see Captain Hickes come to me with a list of all the officers of Deptford Yard, wherein he, being a high old Cavalier, do give me an account of every one of them to their reproach in all respects, and discovers many of their knaverys; and tells me, and so I thank God I hear every where, that my name is up for a good husband for the King, and a good man, for which I bless God; and that he did this by particular direction of Mr. Coventry.
33 Annotations
First Reading
TerryF • Link
Captain Hickes "discovers [=reveals] many of their knaverys"
knave
O.E. cnafa "boy, male servant," common Gmc. (cf. O.H.G. knabo "boy, youth, servant," Ger. knabe "boy, lad," also probably related to O.E. cnapa "boy, youth, servant," O.N. knapi "servant boy," Du. knaap "a youth, servant," M.H.G. knappe "a young squire," Ger. Knappe "squire, shield-bearer"). The original meaning may have been "stick, piece of wood." Sense of "rogue, rascal" first recorded c.1205. In playing cards, "the jack," 1568.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.p…
TerryF • Link
May we suppose that Captain Hickes's list goes into a secret compartment in a locked trunk in Pepys's closet in the Navy Office with other such depositiona kept for future reference?
There may come a time when someone with a paygrade high enough and the will to the right thing could find such records of heuristic value.
Aqua • Link
'twas an expression of my ill gotten youth "that when I'll get that little knapper, his hide be red raw."
Aqua • Link
Sam had 725 L http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive… "...so that now my Lord owes me, for which I have his bond, just 700l.. After long discourse with him of the fitness of his giving me a receipt for this money, which I for my security think necessary and he otherwise do not think so, at last, after being a little angry, and I resolving not to let go my money without it, he did give me one. ..."
So question be, does Sam'l have only a few quids in his Purse.
or are the 2 lots separate, making Sam'l worth over the thou.
Possible vs probable.
don't count chickens that not be in they hen house.
Bradford • Link
One may say that My Lord has some nerve to borrow such a substantial amount off Pepys and then haver about the small act of writing out a receipt. Perhaps he took umbrage at any possible suspicion that he might skip the country with the proceeds; but more likely Sam is thinking that, should M'Lud untimely croak, what proof would there be of the great wad of dough the Sandwich estate should repay him?
TerryF • Link
Was the receipt dispute with M'lord's agent, Mr. Moore?
Australian Susan • Link
Yes, I think this was Moore not Sandwich who cavilled at the receipt. I don't think, if it had been Sandwich refusing to issue one, that Sam would have pressed so hard. Moore is trying to get away with it for the sake of his master, but I think Sam was quite right to insist. It's a huge amount of the readies.
Aqua • Link
Sam has m'Laud's x on said bond, not that he mistrusts Sandwich but there be a fly caught between Sandwich and My lady, Her ladyship might take umbrage and help his Lordship with his sailing career.
Todd Bernhardt • Link
re: the receipt
I think so. I think the dispute may have had to do with Moore being reticent to give Sam a receipt for loaning him money, when in fact it may have been rightful payment (of wages, etc.) to Moore from Montagu, with Sam merely supplying the funds. If that's the case, should Moore sign a receipt saying that Sam gave him the money? Why should he (he perhaps reasons), when the deal is actually between Sam and Montagu?
In any case, it's a little sad to see these two old allies at odds with each other.
And Aqua, good point about the co-mingling of finances ... perhaps Sam does not include funds lent to Montagu when reckoning his own worth, though this approach would certainly be against principles of modern accounting ... wouldn't it?
dirk • Link
Aqua, don't forget that Sam exchanged a bond for £500 for one of £700 -- so his net new investment amounts to £200 (see yesterday's entry). So, I think Sam is not penniless now.
It would be interesting to know the interest rate though.
Robert Gertz • Link
"Mr. Pepys? Are you suggesting, sir, that my Lord, the Earl of Sandwich's word alone is not sufficient to guarantee a ridiculous 700L bond?"
"Not at all, my dear Moore. But it is you I am entrusting with all I have in the world...And you of whom I demand a receipt."
TerryF • Link
The vicualling braintrust "came to some issue in it" means
(a) they reached a conclusion; OR
(b) they had a difference of op;inion.
TerryF • Link
Methinks (a), but....?
Aqua • Link
Never pennyless: To-day one counts in the equity of house, stocks and bonds, even car, one or all that can disappear over night, like those Katrina victims that had the wrong insurance. Very few have a cash stash in civilised world, no rolls of money to be handed out [fresh Hundred dollar bills in wads, so uncililised, or paper money that loses zeros while sleeping on paliass], only the net worth be what could be used to borrow more monies, only to wake up with the house or/and stocks be down the proverbial drain, then that puts thee into debt beyond thy fake worth, to pay off the debt that you can no longer borrow against [Foreclosure etc].
In those days, up to loss of the gold standard failure, coin be thy worth, I am of the impression that worth be coin in hand, as Sam has the income and value from Unc,s Will, not mentioned in his statement of worth, It seems that what be owed is in the catogory of debt owed or debt owing, be separate from worth.
As of June 30 Sam'l states 725l, he advances 200L to make up working expenses for Sandwich, to spend on his pleasures and household, Sandwich still in pickle with his expense sheet from his Med cruise.
Sam'l now has only 525l or 25l in coin in his hidy hole,[Which], which is very close to feeling right proper poorly. And he has been spending rather freely , paying off Mary A, and house hold expenses. He gets his goverment check in September.
Does he have only 25l in his little black purse, as Sandwich has 700l?
So I must assume that Sam'l has 525l in coin as his stated net worth but he has another extra 700l with Sandwich and other monies that he be owed along with his stash, and of course like all of those with trusting faces, have Tabs here there and every where, Like most of us did before the HP/CRedito card. Tab be the bain of all Small store owners who waited a whole year to get the slate clean if they are lucky , who could not trust a judge, banker and all titled ones.
Oh how new banking has improved the lot of the masses, everyone is now a proud owner of unpawnable goods.
Aqua • Link
'...about the victualling business and came to some issue in it..." I dothe think there be a snag and it does need to be resolved. My guess would be the vigorish required to get contract. Where be monies, there be many that be requiring convincing with a little sweetner.
May be another source for Sam to help get his bag of coin up to 1000l.
Re Sam's worth: also stated Sam settled his debts with Creed reducing Sam's bag of coin, no checks crossed or uncrossed or cashier [cashiered I hope not].
"...after dinner I paid him some money which evened all reckonings between him and me to this day, ..."
In todays terms Sam'l be worth heap more.
Interest rate by law be 6% but I've seen 8% too.
Patricia • Link
I find it interesting that Sam disapproves of Sandwich spending money on that slut of Chelsea but loans him money anyway, knowing how it will be spent. He can hardly refuse, since he owes Sandwich so much. This is one of those unequal position transactions that can lead to so much grief. Hope that's not where it's leading Pepys.
jeannine • Link
“A Good Husband For the King ????”
Our Sam works his “nine to five”
Impressing all with dedication and drive
But to marry Charles Stuart?
Annotators will see through it
Civil Partnerships won’t be law ‘til 2005!
JWB • Link
Aqua
Just last Apr. Sam was asking Moore for some ready cash. W/out coupons to clip, he has to resort to Moore, and therefore I assume his Montagu bond is all his capital.
And last winter Moore was @ death's door, which could explain Sam's insistence on a receipt.
Glyn • Link
What I'm unclear about, is how much of this 700 pounds is Pepys' own money. Surely his current total worth is not as great as that. Is this some money from the Naval Office that Pepys is lending to Montagu?
Mary • Link
the £700.
And where does this mesh with the considerable 'annuity' that Pepys was trying to negotiate with Sandwich a couple of months ago? I'm getting quite confused about his finances.
Andrew Hamilton • Link
The receipt
As I read it, Sam is settling accounts with Mr. Moore both for himself (apparently having borrowed or made use of his services) --"I paid him some money which evened all reckonings between him and me to this day" -- and for Lord Sandwich. Reference is made to the L700 debt in such a manner that one could infer that the payment to Moore on behalf of Sandwich completes the obligation for which Sam ALREADY has My Lord's bond -- "so that now my Lord owes me, for which I have his bond, just 700l." Since the old bond was for L500, another inference is that the payment to Moore may have been for as much as L200. It matters little to Sam whether the payment is for services or to cancel a debt. But he rightly wants proof he's made it, and has to reason with Moore to obtain the receipt.
So much for the passage above. But the arrangement also deserves comment. I recall Sam from time to time looking for investments, but not recently. Lending money to Sandwich seems to have absorbed much of his liquid capital. Sam may have entered into this arrangement readily. But it is also easy to see how he might have been made a request he could not gracefully refuse. Sandwich's debts have been a fairly recent topic. Perhaps Moore told Sandwich Sam has large ready funds and My Lord asks Sam to lend them. How could Sam say no without putting himself at risk?
Aqua • Link
Good Husband , one that looks after the resources not a squanderer, from old English hus- house, bondi- free of bondage?
A. Hamilton • Link
I note that today's entry is keyed on Coventry, mornings and evenings basking in his esteem, with the nasty stuff of debts, bonds, receipts and Sandwich obligations in the middle. An inside out Coventry sandwich?
A. Hamilton • Link
Good Husband
Nice pun, Vince.
Here's the OED:
[Late OE. húsbonda, -bunda, f. hús house + late OE. ? bónda, bonda, bunda, a. ON. bóndi, peasant owning his own house and land, freeholder, franklin, yeoman; earlier búandi, bóandi, orig. pres. pple. of búa, bóa to dwell, have a household; but the OE. use answered immediately to ON. húsbóndi, a man of this rank in his capacity as head or master of the household. In ME. often with connective e, as in husewif, HOUSEWIFE.]
Bradford • Link
Ah, curse these pronouns and all their wandering antecedents, but blessings to all who untangled it. Like Mary, I'm confused about Pepys's overall financial situation, and wish we also had his account book, which must have been something to behold.
jeannine • Link
Sandwich's finances...According to his 2 biographers (Ollard and Harris) there isn't a great deal of information in Sandwich's manuscripts which detail his finances, and nothing that details’ today’s diary entry. In general the limited information around this time shows that Sandwich may have expected to have money coming in from various places (£4,000 year granted from the Restoration, rents from lands, the Wardrobe (which he estimated at £7,000 year), etc. The truth was that the Wardrobe took the hit for a lot of the expenses of the pageantry associated with the Restoration, forcing it into great debt from which it never seemed to recover. Charles would promise funds and not deliver on the amounts promised, and if lucky the Wardrobe would get a fraction of the promised amount. No money in the Wardrobe meant no pay for Sandwich.
Harris gives a few pages of fragmented accounting summary (as there isn't alot to support the details) and explains that "The grants which Charles II made to his supporter were generous, nut unreal. They were made in a time of uncertainty; they were based in the perquisites of an office which was months in arrears, or fee farm rents in scattered countries. The grants, too, were looked upon with disfavor by a certain section, and there was at times a talk of the restitution of lands...Although he was partly the victim of a bad system, he was undeniably careless. His accounts were badly supervised. He estimated his income at what was then the large sum of £8,oo per year, and spent in a princely fashion." (Harris vol I, p 258). The combination of bad accounting, no money coming in, Sandwich’s extravagant nature and generosity all combined to leave him in a state of lifelong financial troubles.
Robert Gertz • Link
"One word of advice, cousin Pepys." Sandwich pauses before boarding the boat to Virginia...His creditors barely held back at the gates, a tearful but loyal Lady Jemina already on board with the children.
"Yes, but my Lord...About my own bond..."
"Income 7000L and six, expenditure 7000L, result...Happiness."
"Yes, my Lord, but..."
"Income 7000L, expenditure 7000L and six, result...Misery."
"Indeed, my Lord Sandwich...But as to my bond for 700L."
"Heed my words, good cousin. And, if I may at last, cousin...Samuel. Farewell." Hurried run for the boarding plank as several creditors and their thugs break through to the docks.
"God be with ye and my beautious cousin, your wife!" Sandwich waves from the boat, Lady Jemina waving sadly, blowing kisses. Creditors waving bills from the dock, some tearing hair, a few contemplating a jump into the water, perhaps to reach the boat or at least end the misery of their ruin.
Sam staring at the departing ship...And his departing 700Ls.
"But..."
Nix • Link
"after doing something in order to the putting of my house in order now the joynery is done" --
With apologies to Robert Gertz, I picture something like:
"Wife, the joynery is done. Put my house in order. I am going to White Hall."
Second Reading
Bill • Link
“I thank God I hear every where, that my name is up for a good husband for the King”
HUSBAND ...
3. An oeconomist; a man that knows and practises the methods of frugality and profit.
---A Dictionary Of The English Language. Samuel Johnson, 1756.
Terry Foreman • Link
"Captain Hickes come to me with a list of all the officers of Deptford Yard, wherein he, being a high old Cavalier, do give me an account of every one of them to their reproach in all respects, and discovers many of their knaverys."
L&M cite in the National Archives a letter from William Hickes to Pepys, 23 August, reporting embezzlement of the King's stores.
San Diego Sarah • Link
Victualing is a high priority right now:
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
Sunday 23 August 1663 (Lord’s day).
After supper to prayers and to bed, having been, by a sudden letter coming to me from Mr. Coventry, been with Sir W. Penn, to discourse with him about sending 500 soldiers into Ireland. I doubt matters do not go very right there.
Robert Harneis • Link
"I went by water to White Hall, where the Court full of waggons and horses, the King and Court going this day out towards the Bath"
What a wonderful picture of what travel meant in those days - water and/or horses. An old school master told me that when he was young all the great London railway stations smelt of dung from all the horses needed to bring goods to and from the trains.
Chris Squire UK • Link
Re: ’ . . and discovers many of their knaverys; and tells me . . that my name is up for a good husband for the King . .’
‘knaverys < Germanic . .
. . 1. b. As a count noun. An act that is characteristic of a knave; a dishonest or crafty deed; a scheme.
. . 1607 T. Middleton Phoenix sig. Fv, They blinde him with beere, and make him so narrowe eyde, that he wincks naturallye at all their Knaueries.
a1670 J. Hacket Cent. Serm. (1675) 904 Many a shrewd knavery passeth under the name of a venial sin . . ‘
……………..
‘husband, n. < Scandinavian . .
. . 5. a. A man charged with the good management of something; esp. the appointed manager of a household, establishment, or organization; a steward, a keeper.
. . 1613 H. Finch Law (1636) 240 The King hath a proper Court..for all things touching his reuenues, called the Exchequer. The Judges whereof are called Barons, or housebands for the Kings Reuenue.
1695–6 Act 7 & 8 William III c. 13 §3 in Statutes of Realm (1963) VII. 78 It shall..be lawfull for the Royal African Company of England, to bring to His Majesties Tower of London..such Gold as shall bee Imported by them the Husband of the said Company first making Oath before the Warden Comptroller . . ‘
(OED)