Monday 25 April 1664

Up, and with Sir W. Pen by coach to St. James’s and there up to the Duke, and after he was ready to his closet, where most of our talke about a Dutch warr, and discoursing of things indeed now for it. The Duke, which gives me great good hopes, do talk of setting up a good discipline in the fleete. In the Duke’s chamber there is a bird, given him by Mr. Pierce, the surgeon, comes from the East Indys, black the greatest part, with the finest collar of white about the neck; but talks many things and neyes like the horse, and other things, the best almost that ever I heard bird in my life. Thence down with Mr. Coventry and Sir W. Rider, who was there (going along with us from the East Indya house to-day) to discourse of my Lord Peterborough’s accounts, and then walked over the Parke, and in Mr. Cutler’s coach with him and Rider as far as the Strand, and thence I walked to my Lord Sandwich’s, where by agreement I met my wife, and there dined with the young ladies; my Lady, being not well, kept her chamber. Much simple discourse at table among the young ladies. After dinner walked in the garden, talking, with Mr. Moore about my Lord’s business. He told me my Lord runs in debt every day more and more, and takes little care how to come out of it. He counted to me how my Lord pays use now for above 9000l., which is a sad thing, especially considering the probability of his going to sea, in great danger of his life, and his children, many of them, to provide for. Thence, the young ladies going out to visit, I took my wife by coach out through the city, discoursing how to spend the afternoon; and conquered, with much ado, a desire of going to a play; but took her out at White Chapel, and to Bednal Green; so to Hackney, where I have not been many a year, since a little child I boarded there. Thence to Kingsland, by my nurse’s house, Goody Lawrence, where my brother Tom and I was kept when young. Then to Newington Green, and saw the outside of Mrs. Herbert’s house, where she lived, and my Aunt Ellen with her; but, Lord! how in every point I find myself to over-value things when a child. Thence to Islington, and so to St. John’s to the Red Bull, and there: saw the latter part of a rude prize fought, but with good pleasure enough; and thence back to Islington, and at the King’s Head, where Pitts lived, we ‘light and eat and drunk for remembrance of the old house sake, and so through Kingsland again, and so to Bishopsgate, and so home with great pleasure. The country mighty pleasant, and we with great content home, and after supper to bed, only a little troubled at the young ladies leaving my wife so to-day, and from some passages fearing my Lady might be offended. But I hope the best.

20 Annotations

Terry F   Link to this

"a bird...from the East Indys, black the greatest part, with the finest collar of white about the neck; but talks many things and neyes like the horse, and other things, the best almost that ever I heard bird in my life."

Surely a Myna or Mynah:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myna

At the bottom of this page, a video of a mynah not as articulate as the Duke's: http://www.honoluluzoo.org/mynah_bird_video.htm

cape henry   Link to this

"...but, Lord! how in every point I find myself to over-value things when a child." So he finishes a charming piece of writing recounting what many of us have done and observed ourselves. The vast gardens of childhood are but tiny places. Even so, there is no need to renounce their joys.

Patricia   Link to this

"my Lady, being not well, kept her chamber.... and from some passages fearing my Lady might be offended."
Lady Sandwich probably just can't face Sam again after that embarrassing episode the other day when he walked in on her while she was on the pot.

Alan Bedford   Link to this

"how my Lord pays use now for above 9000l.,"

That's interest he's paying on £9000, in, I would guess, commercial loans. It seems he's maxed out on loans from his friends already.

Terry F   Link to this

The Duke, in his closet, talks of things for a Dutch war

"about a Dutch warr, and discoursing of things indeed now for it. The Duke, which gives me great good hopes, do talk of setting up a good discipline in the fleete."

= "things for it" in two senses: the "things indeed now for it," i.e., factors in favor of its occurring; then, what the fleet needs for it.

Terry F   Link to this

The implications for Pepys of Sandwich's financial straits

Two days ago, at dinner, "I and my wife much troubled about my money that is in my Lord Sandwich's hand, for fear of his going to sea and be killed; but I will get what of it out I can." Saturday 23 April http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1664/04/23/

Such a shock that he doesn't say how distressed he is?!

cumsalisgrano   Link to this

He doth appear to be on a mini vacation, I wonder why? surely not rememering a certain birthday, just a coincidence of course.

cumsalisgrano   Link to this

Alan Bedford: It could be 9000 li be the interest, the debt be 56000 li. It takes big bucks to run that size estate and there be no steady income or rents, I do not think he has coal mines or lead for income, like some of the other landed ones, Huntington is good for fishing and wading. He is owed much by the Royals.
Real estate has to produce cash either from housing or minerals, sheep and farm product doe not yield hi incomes.
Too many then and now have very little savvy in grasping how wealth be generated. Sending out Freebooters gets thee a warre, Sure there be investments that be running in the Coffee shops backing various adventures, there be many hulk resting on far shores that has sunk an invester.

Being an Earl may be glamouress but thee need some horse sense to get others to hand over some playing monies.

Keeping up with the Jones was in vogue then as now.

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"The Duke, which gives me great good hopes, do talk of setting up a good discipline in the fleete..."

Me thinks the party's over, ye seagoing Cavaliers...

Though of course the brunt of "good discipline" will be born by the common sailors.

"What we need are some good floggings...And a few executions. Just pull a few from the more troublesome types at random. You know, the silly ones who keep running off, whining about their families starving and the unfairness of their being pressed."

Terry F   Link to this

"Me thinks the party's over, ye seagoing Cavaliers..."

Robert, is this chat in the Duke's closet indeed the turning point in the history of the British navy?

Jamie: "Pepys, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."

Paul Chapin   Link to this

"my Lord pays use now for above 9000l"
Reading between the lines, I sense that Sam may have been sounding Mr. Moore out about recovering his money that is in my Lordship's keeping, and Moore trying to discourage him from pressing the matter.

As to the exchange between Alan Bedford and CSG, I would say the word "for" clearly indicates that the 9K is the principal amount, not the interest.

Australian Susan   Link to this

"my Lady, being not well, kept her chamber."

Cystitis?

Needs to be near a chamber pot?

There is mention here of the common practice of putting children to live with a nurse until weaned:"...my nurse's house, Goody Lawrence, where my brother Tom and I was kept when young..."

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"So no play?" wistfully...

"Vows, dear...Oh, look there's Bednal Green. When I was a boy we always used to pass here on our way to Hackney. Look, there's Hackney, where I was boarded!"

"Nice...You sure about the play?"

"There's the creek crossing where I felt my first twinge of the stone. See that slippery rock?"

"Wonderful..."

"I think...Yes, this is Kingsland. There's Goody Lawrence's cottage, where Tom and I stayed when we were young. Ah, it's just as I remember it."

"The stuff growing in that thatched muck on the roof's a nice touch."

"Yes, Goody Lawrence wasn't much for redoing her roof. Lord that stench...It brings back such memories." tears up.

"Look...The house where Mrs. Herbert and Aunt Ellen lived. Hmmn...Not quite as big as I remember it."

"Very nice. Sometime we have to visit my favorite places in Paris."

"I suppose this is boring you."

"Nah." pat on hand.

language hat   Link to this

"Sam may have been sounding Mr. Moore out about recovering his money that is in my Lordship's keeping"

I certainly would be concerned. If the guy who's "keeping" your money is in that kind of debt, how are you ever going to get your money back? It just reinforces my amazement that Pepys was willing to leave the bulk of his savings in the hands of an irresponsible aristo. I know, I know, no banks yet, but there must have been something better to do with it (hole in the ground?).

Ann   Link to this

I don't have the advantage of knowing how this comes out in the end, but, if Sandwich goes to sea and survives, doesn't he stand a chance of greatly increasing his wealth through "prizes" taken? Or, does that perk develop later in the Royal Navy?

Bradford   Link to this

"in every point I find myself to over-value things when a child"---exactly, so Cape Henry: we were small then, so objects, places, people loomed larger; and we were seeing such things for the first time.

Ditto, LH, about Lord S. holding Sam's swag. But how can you get it away from him without his being "offended"? And what if it isn't, er, readily available upon demand?

Nix   Link to this

"He told me my Lord runs in debt every day more and more, and takes little care how to come out of it. He counted to me how my Lord pays use now for above 9000l." --

I'm astonished that Samuel doesn't express alarm. It's like someone telling you he saw your stockbroker at the high rollers table in Las Vegas, swilling Cristal and pawing the waitresses.

Andrew Hamilton   Link to this

birdsong

To hear more of what Sam says he heard four days ago, go the link below. To the left of the bumblebee, click on "Listen to June 6"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/nature_2005...

cumsalisgrano   Link to this

"...doesn't he stand a chance of greatly increasing his wealth through "prizes" taken? Or, does that perk develop later in the Royal Navy?..."

Prize monies be the Hooke for many, no guarantees.
Time to read thy Seamans Grammar MDCXCI John Smith
Chapter XIV page 64 Seamens grammar.
How they divide their shares in a Man of War, what books and Instuments are fit for a Sea-man, with divers advertisments for Sea men, and the use of the Petty Tally.

The Ship hath one third part , The Victualler the other third. The other third is for the Company, and this is sub-divided thus in shares.
Captain 10: in some but 9;
The Lieutenant ( or as he agreeth with the Captain;
The Master 8 in some but 7:
The Mates 7 or 5:
The Chyrugion 6 or 3: ...........The Gunner 6 or 5:
The Boatswain 6 or 5:............The Carpenter 6 or 5:
The Trumpeter 6 or 5:.............
The 4 quarter Masters 5 apiece or 4:
The Cooper 5 or 4: ..............The Chyrurgions Mate 5 or 4:
The Gunners Mate 5 or 4:......The Carpenters Mate 5 or 4:
The Corporal 4 or 3:..............The quarter Gunners 4 or 3:
The Trumpeters Mate 3 or 3 1/2:...The Steward 4 or 3:
The Cook 4 or 3....The Coxswain 4 or 3:...The Swabber 4 or 3:
........The Younkers or Foremast men according to their desserts,some 3, som 2 1/2, some some 1 1/2, and the Boys one , which is a single share , or one and half, or as they deserve [The captain can adjust if needed]

jeannine   Link to this

"if Sandwich goes to sea and survives, doesn't he stand a chance of greatly increasing his wealth through "prizes" taken? Or, does that perk develop later in the Royal Navy?"
Ann, that practice has been going on for awhile. In the case of some of the people we know so far, Carteret made a fortune (several times when needed) in his past "privateering" days, as did Holmes and others, like Rupert, etc. Although these activities were technically "outside" of the Navy, they weren't outside of the reign of Charles II, who would welcome his split in any prizes taken.

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