Tuesday 24 March 1667/68
Up pretty betimes, and so there comes to me Mr. Shish, to desire my appearing for him to succeed Mr. Christopher Pett, lately dead, in his place of Master-Shipwright of Deptford and Woolwich, which I do resolve to promote what I can. So by and by to White Hall, and there to the Duke of York’s chamber, where I understand it is already resolved by the King and Duke of York that Shish shall have the place. From the Duke’s chamber Sir W. Coventry and I to walk in the Matted Gallery; and there, among other things, he tells me of the wicked design that now is at last contriving against him, to get a petition presented from people that the money they have paid to W. Coventry for their places may be repaid them back; and that this is set on by Temple and Hollis of the Parliament, and, among other mean people in it, by Captain Tatnell: and he prays me that I will use some effectual way to sift Tatnell what he do, and who puts him on in this business, which I do undertake, and will do with all my skill for his service, being troubled that he is still under this difficulty. Thence up and down Westminster by Mrs. Burroughes her mother’s shop, thinking to have seen her, but could not, and therefore back to White Hall, where great talk of the tumult at the other end of the town, about Moore-fields, among the ’prentices, taking the liberty of these holydays to pull down bawdy-houses.1 And, Lord! to see the apprehensions which this did give to all people at Court, that presently order was given for all the soldiers, horse and foot, to be in armes! and forthwith alarmes were beat by drum and trumpet through Westminster, and all to their colours, and to horse, as if the French were coming into the town! So Creed, whom I met here, and I to Lincolne’s Inn-fields, thinking to have gone into the fields to have seen the ’prentices; but here we found these fields full of soldiers all in a body, and my Lord Craven commanding of them, and riding up and down to give orders, like a madman. And some young men we saw brought by soldiers to the Guard at White Hall, and overheard others that stood by say, that it was only for pulling down the bawdy-houses; and none of the bystanders finding fault with them, but rather of the soldiers for hindering them. And we heard a justice of the Peace this morning say to the King, that he had been endeavouring to suppress this tumult, but could not; and that, imprisoning some [of them] in the new prison at Clerkenwell, the rest did come and break open the prison and release them; and that they do give out that they are for pulling down the bawdy-houses, which is one of the greatest grievances of the nation. To which the King made a very poor, cold, insipid answer: “Why, why do they go to them, then?” and that was all, and had no mind to go on with the discourse. Mr. Creed and I to dinner to my Lord Crew, where little discourse, there being none but us at the table, and my Lord and my Lady Jemimah, and so after dinner away, Creed and I to White Hall, expecting a Committee of Tangier, but come too late. So I to attend the Council, and by and by were called in with Lord Brouncker and Sir W. Pen to advise how to pay away a little money to most advantage to the men of the yards, to make them dispatch the ships going out, and there did make a little speech, which was well liked, and after all it was found most satisfactory to the men, and best for the king’s dispatch, that what money we had should be paid weekly to the men for their week’s work until a greater sum could be got to pay them their arrears and then discharge them. But, Lord! to see what shifts and what cares and thoughts there was employed in this matter how to do the King’s work and please the men and stop clamours would make a man think the King should not eat a bit of good meat till he has got money to pay the men, but I do not see the least print of care or thoughts in him about it at all. Having done here, I out and there met Sir Fr. Hollis, who do still tell me that, above all things in the world, he wishes he had my tongue in his mouth, meaning since my speech in Parliament. He took Lord Brouncker and me down to the guards, he and his company being upon the guards to-day; and there he did, in a handsome room to that purpose, make us drink, and did call for his bagpipes, which, with pipes of ebony, tipt with silver, he did play beyond anything of that kind that ever I heard in my life; and with great pains he must have obtained it, but with pains that the instrument do not deserve at all; for, at the best, it is mighty barbarous musick. So home and there to my chamber, to prick out my song, “It is Decreed,” intending to have it ready to give Mr. Harris on Thursday, when we meet, for him to sing, believing that he will do it more right than a woman that sings better, unless it were Knepp, which I cannot have opportunity to teach it to.
This evening I come home from White Hall with Sir W. Pen, who fell in talk about his going to sea this year, and the difficulties that arise to him by it, by giving offence to the Prince, and occasioning envy to him, and many other things that make it a bad matter, at this time of want of money and necessaries, and bad and uneven counsels at home, — for him to go abroad: and did tell me how much with the King and Duke of York he had endeavoured to be excused, desiring the Prince might be satisfied in it, who hath a mind to go; but he tells me they will not excuse him, and I believe it, and truly do judge it a piece of bad fortune to W. Pen.
25 Annotations
First Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"...great talk of the tumult at the other end of the town, about Moore-fields, among the 'prentices, taking the liberty of these holydays to pull down bawdy-houses."
"Holidays and festivals were traditional occasions when the young men of early modern London indulged in carnivals of misrule. One of the most striking examples of these were the ritualized attacks on brothels by apprentices, which customarily took place on Shrove Tuesday. These rituals, which often involved quite extensive destruction to property, seem to have occurred with persistent regularity, at least in the early Stuart period, there being twenty-four known Shrove Tuesday riots in the thirty-five years between 1606 and 1641. Such activities normally received moderate handling from the authorities, and only in exceptional circumstances did the courts choose to punish the rioters with heavy fines or a period of imprisonment. Contemporaries, it seems, were familiar with, and to a certain extent tolerant of this ‘ancient administration of justice at Shrovetide’ by the apprentices, as James Harrington called it. Such feats were even acclaimed in popular literature as being a sign of the virtue of London's young men. In this context, the response of the authorities to apprentice attacks on bawdy houses that occurred in Easter week of 1668 seems excessive. Here, fifteen of the ringleaders were tried for high treason, on a rather dubious interpretation of the law, and four were eventually hanged, drawn and quartered."
Tim Harris (1986). The Bawdy House Riots of 1668. The Historical Journal, 29, pp 537-556 doi:10.1017/S0018246X00018902
http://www.foreignpolicybulletinm…
Paul Chapin • Link
Add Sam to the list of bagpipe haters (but not me, I like them).
Robert Gertz • Link
The boys are fighting for the right not to party? Meanwhile for the Court, it's support your local bawdy house?...er civic order. One might wonder if some of milords have money sunk in a few.
Robert Gertz • Link
"...and I believe it, and truly do judge it a piece of bad fortune to W. Pen." One can hear that little snicker at the end, Sam.
Robert Gertz • Link
"...the wicked design that now is at last contriving against him, to get a petition presented from people that the money they have paid to W. Coventry for their places may be repaid them back..."
"Of course it's not just me, Pepys. This could crumble the very foundations of English government."
"Indeed Sir Will...Why if everyone in the government who sold a place had to pay the money back, the consequences could be severe."
"Why, it could even lead to demands for all bribes to be returned." Coventry nods.
Choking gasp... "I shall do everything in my power to prevent this wrong, Sir Will!"
tonyt • Link
The Diary entry for last Friday tells us that it was then Good Friday which means that Shrove Tuesday was in early February. Perhaps the authorities were concerned that the apprentices were trying to create another traditional day (Easter Tuesday) for partying.
Phoenix • Link
"To which the King made a very poor, cold, insipid answer: “Why, why do they go to them, then?” and that was all, and had no mind to go on with the discourse."
More wisdom in those words than Sam appreciates. At what point does one take stock of personal hypocrisies? The comment implies that Charles has. Does Sam - ever?
Carl in Boston • Link
Bagpipes ... with great pains he must have obtained it, but with pains that the instrument do not deserve at all; for, at the best, it is mighty barbarous musick.
I had to laugh at this one. I tried a bagpipe chanter, and it takes too much practice to tame the instrument, and at the end, it's still a crummy instrument. Modern instruments are so much better, like the clarinet. Still, there's a lot of people who do love the bagpipes with Amazing Grace on top. Sometimes I'll use a bagpipe voice on a synthesizer and play Highland Cathedral. They love it to pieces. A related piece is "Time To Say Goodbye" (Andre Bocelli) on an oboe voice or bagpipe.
john • Link
Society has not changed much. Bawdy houses exist because of customers so blame the houses, not the customers.
As far as bagpipes go, our local police had a bagpipe-and-drum band that accompanied their mounted exhibition. It was quite the stirring sight but, alas, disbanded due to cost cutting.
Claire • Link
I am a fan of bagpipes but appreciate a good slam against the instrument which is, admittedly, of limited but effective use. Our county sheriff's office has a group of pipers primarily for funerals but they also do weddings.
nix • Link
"at the best, it is mighty barbarous musick" --
A late colleague of mine, who was a lifelong bagpiper, joked that the definition of a true gentleman is someone who knows how to play the bagpipes . . . and doesn't.
nix • Link
"I out and there met Sir Fr. Hollis, who do still tell me that, above all things in the world, he wishes he had my tongue in his mouth" --
Ewwwwwwww!
-- "meaning since my speech in Parliament."
Ahh, thanks for that clarification, Samuel. The long-awaited textual proof that you knew posterity might be reading over your shoulder!
Robert Gertz • Link
"Hollis told you he wished he had your tongue where?...And then he took you and Brouncker to a room and made you drink?"
"Why, yes...Then he brought out his bagpipes...And...Bess..? Say, Bess?!...Where the devil is she gone off with that cleaver to?"
Australian Susan • Link
I am wondering if these were the outdoor Scottish bagpipes or the smaller elbow-pumped Northumbrian pipes (much more suited to indoor playing).
Dawn • Link
I like how he used the word muSICK
Second Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"It was customary for the apprentices of the metropolis to avail themselves of their holidays, especially on Shrove Tuesday, to search after women of ill fame, and to confine them during the season of Lent. See a “Satyre against Separatists,” 1642." http://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/…
Terry Foreman • Link
The 1668 Bawdy House Riots (also called the Messenger riots after rioter Peter Messenger) took place in 17th-century London over several days in March during Easter Week, 1668. They were sparked by Dissenters who resented the King's proclamation against conventicles (private lay worship) while turning a blind eye to the equally illegal brothels. Thousands of young men besieged and demolished brothels throughout the East End, assaulting the prostitutes and looting the properties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baw…
Terry Foreman • Link
"after all it was found most satisfactory to the men, and best for the king’s dispatch, that what money we had should be paid weekly to the men for their week’s work until a greater sum could be got to pay them their arrears and then discharge them."
L&M: In June £8,000 was borrowed from Backwell the baner for payment of the arrears: CTB, ii. 354, 357.
San Diego Sarah • Link
March 24. 1668
H. H. to Sir Rob. Carr.
[Robert Carr was a MP for Lincolnshire.]
I was in company with some seamen who report that the peace concluded with the Dutch is such as England could not keep, viz, to furnish the Dutch with 30,000 men and pay them;
also that the King of France had shook off the Pope's supremacy, proclaimed general liberty for all opinions, and seized all the Church's stock and lands into his own hands;
that he had 400,000 men in pay, and had agreed with the King of Spain, and was bending his whole force for England, where the generality of the sectarians would join him.
I fear there is something of that nature in the wind, the generality of all persuasions being so cheerful in their discourses of the French news.
The seamen report that we have not above 50 sail of ships fit for sea, and that it will be a hard matter to get seamen, they having been so cheated of their pay;
"some waiting until the remedy be worse than the disease, others forced to play at half game, and others to the thirds," so that thousands of them are resolved rather to be torn to pieces than serve again.
A purser quoted Solomon's observation that "Justice established a nation; but," said he, "in England the channel of justice was stopped, otherwise there would be many more Lord Chancellors found;"
also that there was so strong an endeavour to stifle justice that the guilty were rather encouraged than otherwise, even to the jeering of those prosecutors, and instanced Lord Gerard jeering the Committee of Parliament.
"It would make a sober man wild to hear the discourse that is abroad."
Does not supply intelligence to any other correspondent, as is reported.
Wants employment to collect the chimney money in Berkshire; could do more service there in the way of intelligence than anywhere else.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 237, No. 51.]
'Charles II: March 1668', in Calendar of State Papers Domestic: Charles II, 1667-8, ed. Mary Anne Everett Green (London, 1893), pp. 262-320. British History Online
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…
Stephane Chenard • Link
His Majesty should beware. Our seer tells us that other kings, under different skies and in future times, will also be dismissive of rioting students, fired up by a religious zeal to enforce purity and punish corruption, and they will live to sorely regret it.
San Diego Sarah • Link
"But, Lord! to see what shifts and what cares and thoughts there was employed in this matter how to do the King’s work and please the men and stop clamors would make a man think the King should not eat a bit of good meat till he has got money to pay the men, but I do not see the least print of care or thoughts in him about it at all."
How often have you experienced this?
There's a problem; senior management is summonsed from afar to formulate a solution.
A logical, reasonable, practical solution is offered in the first 5 minutes.
Then everyone else pontificates on the problem for the sole purpose of getting their overwhelming concern about the problem on the record.
After an hour, the senior person declares satisfaction with the only offered solution.
Nothing has changed in 350 years.
Eric the Bish • Link
Teehee “ ... bagpipes, ... at the best, it is mighty barbarous musick.”
It is said that the definition of a gentleman is a man who can play the bagpipes, but doesn’t.
San Diego Sarah • Link
"it is already resolved by the King and Duke of York that Shish shall have the place"
How small London was. Granted running the Naval Dockyard was a very important job, but can you imagine the President of the USA deciding who would be the CEO of Boeing, or the Prime Minister selecting the Chairman of Lockheed Martin or BAE?
San Diego Sarah • Link
However, of more concern ...
March 24. 1668
The Monmouth.
Sir Thos. Allin to Williamson.
A vessel from Rochelle says the French are making great haste with their fleet, and "the King will have 100,000 men in the field, 100 sail of ships at sea, and 100 million of livres into their armies." [LOUIS XIV, THAT IS]
Capt. [Ant.] Langstone met Capt. JNo. Gilliams, a man-of-war of 24 guns, belonging to St. Sebastian's, which had on board Serjeant-Major Don Quante, with 6 captains and 400 men under his command, bound for Ostend;
his consort had 200 men.
He had been out of St. Sebastian's 7 days, and said Don John would be ready to depart after him in 14 days.
I daily meet with Hollanders who report we shall have war, and others the contrary.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 237, No. 48.]
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... forthwith alarmes were beat by drum and trumpet through Westminster, and all to their colours, and to horse, as if the French were coming into the town! ..."
In times like this every able-bodied man either belonged to a regiment or a trained band, The trumpets sounded an alarm, and the men reported to a designated place and and to their colours (best represented by Regimental Flags today).
In battle, that flag told you where the heart of your regiment was located, so you did not stray too far in the chaos. Hense the big deal about capturing the colours.
In the navy, flying colors means something a bit different. Yes, the Admiral of the Red, White or Blue squadron had different colours flying from his mast so the other ships knew where to find their order of battle, and roughly what was going to happen next.
The idiom "Passing with flying colours" comes from the Age of Exploration, when European explorers first set off across the seas. If a captain had been successful in his venture, he would order the crew to fly their country’s flag (or “colours”) to announce their victory before arriving back at the home port.
Originally, the phrase “with flying colors” simply meant that a mission had been completed without a disaster, but over the centuries the idiom came to signify great success.