Friday 26 July 1661
At home all the morning, and walking met with Mr. Hill of Cambridge at Pope’s Head Alley with some women with him whom he took and me into the tavern there, and did give us wine, and would fain seem to be very knowing in the affairs of state, and tells me that yesterday put a change to the whole state of England as to the Church; for the King now would be forced to favour Presbytery, or the City would leave him: but I heed not what he says, though upon enquiry I do find that things in the Parliament are in a great disorder.
Home at noon and there found Mr. Moore, and with him to an ordinary alone and dined, and there he and I read my uncle’s will, and I had his opinion on it, and still find more and more trouble like to attend it. Back to the office all the afternoon, and that done home for all night. Having the beginning of this week made a vow to myself to drink no wine this week (finding it to unfit me to look after business), and this day breaking of it against my will, I am much troubled for it, but I hope God will forgive me.
23 Annotations
First Reading
Pedro. • Link
"for the King now would be forced to favour Presbytery"
1661. April 15th - July 24th. The Savoy Conference.
The King issued a declaration on October 25, 166o, promising a conference, and allowing (Religious) freedom meanwhile.
Could Mr. Hill be referring to the end of this Conference? See site below thanks to Emilio's posting on the 7th April 1661 entry.
http://justus.anglican.org/resour…
Todd Bernhardt • Link
"Having the beginning of this week made a vow to myself to drink no wine this week (finding it to unfit me to look after business), and this day breaking of it against my will, I am much troubled for it, but I hope God will forgive me."
To quote Nancy Reagan, "Just say 'No,' " Sam! (Although, personally, I always thought Nancy's advice was a little rude ... I prefer "Just say 'No, thank you.' ")
But seriously folks, this makes me wonder if it wasn't simply the long ride the day before that rendered Sam "unfit for business" on the 23rd...
Glyn • Link
If he's drinking in a tavern before noon with one man, then having a meal in a pub with someone else then perhaps Todd makes a good point. At least he rarely seems to drink at home.
Pedro. • Link
"Pope's Head Alley with some women with him whom he took and me into the tavern.”
The scene had changed in 1730!
http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/173…
daniel • Link
hah!
very good research, Pedro! it is wonderful to see multiple views of the same scene.
vicente • Link
"...finding it to unfit me to look after business..." Ah ha! he has a dastardly hang over. Noli simul flare sorbereque. (Don't whistle and drink at
the same time.) -Plautus Mostellaria 79
vicente • Link
The records of the last few days at the House of Lords do show; Discussing the Bishops Power, should they hold trials over the sinners, and then the Bill about those who do not doth their cap [dastardly Quakers] should be punished too. Then 3 other characters lose their lands and priviledges for backing the wrong horse. [from the cynic]
record it self.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…
"...Bill to restore Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction.
The Lord Lucas reported from the Committee, the Bill for restoring Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction; and "That, upon further Consideration thereof, the Committee are of Opinion, That the said Bill should pass, without any Alterations."
And the House taking the same into Consideration; for the freer Debate thereof, the House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure.
Bill for Pains and Penalties on Persons excepted from Indemnity...."
From: British History Online
Source: House of Lords Journal Volume 11: 25 July 1661. House of Lords Journal Volume 11, ().
URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…
Date: 27/07/2004
Copyright 2003 University of London & History of Parliament Trust
From: British History Online
The King last Saturday gave orders to the Lords to leave town this Saturday coming and don’t return ‘til called for.
Charles says it better of course.
Bradford • Link
Re Pepys's vow against wine: the Almighty seems mighty forgiving of all his broken promises, on a regular basis---can anyone recall any tit for tat so far?
As for imbibing, let us all abide by the wise words of Sancho Panza: "I only drink when I am alone, or with someone."
A. De Araujo • Link
"Pope's Head Alley" in 1730; and it was just a misdemeanor then? if so they were more enlightened than in the following centuries!!!
Mary • Link
'breaking it against my will'
Perhaps we can put a kind gloss on Sam's failure. If he's in a tavern with an acquaintance/friend, then it might be considered highly insulting if he were to refuse to take wine with his companion. It's clear that this morning's encounter with Mr. Hill was a matter of chance and Sam would have appeared surly if he had refused the invitation to the tavern.
andy • Link
...with some women with him whom he took and me into the tavern there, and did give us wine, and would fain seem to be very knowing in the affairs of state,and tells me that ...
Sam preferring to talk politics rather than chasing women, for a change! Obviously no football at that time.
Todd Bernhardt • Link
re: "breaking it against my will"
I agree completely, Mary, but the thing I found amusing about Sam's entry (hah! I almost said "post" ... how this modern world doth afflict us!) is that he chooses to regard what is ultimately his responsibility -- whether or not to say yes to a proffered glass of wine (or three) -- as something he had no control over.
Of course, I could be wrong ... he could be speaking of his will as something separate that his internal desires must do battle with, as waves break against the rocks on the shoreline. Lord knows we've all probably felt that internal struggle before (angel on right shoulder, devil on left, etc.)
Pedro. • Link
(angel on right shoulder, devil on left, etc.)
Blimey Tod the Devil is in Pope's Head Alley.
“the ghostly tale recounts that if you stand in the alley during the hours of darkness and feel a light breeze on the back of your neck, it isn’t the wind, but the Devil himself close behind you!”
http://homepage.virgin.net/martin…
JWB • Link
"Great Ejection"
Upshot of Savoy Conference ejection and immigration best & brightest of the Puritans, among them Edw. Taylor who wrote:
"What shall a Mote up to a Monarch rise?
An Emmet match an Emperor in might?
If Princes make their personall Exercise
Betriming mouse holes, painting with delight!"
Pretty well sums up Chas.II as seen from America.
Dudley • Link
Walk down Seething Lane turn right into Crutched Frairs there is a serise of arches under Fenchurch St station by the name of French Ordinary Court. Just around the corner
dirk • Link
"...with some women with him whom he took and me into the tavern there, and did give us wine, and would fain seem to be very knowing in the affairs of state,and tells me that ...”
Re Andy - It seems to me that it’s Mr Hill who wants to show off with his political talk, not Sam. maybe Sam *was* more interested in the female company, and that may very well be why he writes down this sneery remark.
Second Reading
Bill • Link
Sam has been silent on the Savoy Conference which was a sop to the Presbyterians for agreeing to the return of Charles II. But the resurgent bishops were in no mood for any compromise and the Presbyterians got nothing. Sam was right not to heed Mr. Hill.
... great Expectations were raised of some farther Reformation, in Order to the uniting of Protestants; to which Purpose, the King gave Commisson to several Divines, both Episcopal and Presbyterian, to meet at the Savoy; ... the Bishops being provoked by their former Sufferings, were not very forward to make any Alterations propos'd by the Presbyterians, refusing them so much as the Change of deadly Sin in the Litany to Heinous Sin.
---Presbyterian Prejudice Display'd. Z. Grey, 1722.
Tonyel • Link
"with some women with him whom he took and me into the tavern"
It's unusual for Sam not to name the female company (and describe them). Perhaps they were "no better than they ought to be" as my aunt used to say.
Sasha Clarkson • Link
If Mr Hill's protegés were indeed "no better than they ought to be", the I'm sure Sam would have at least remarked upon it, especially as Mr Hill was a Puritan divine! Au contraire, I suspect that they were too frumpish and respectable to arouse Sam's interest! :D
Tonyel • Link
I'm sure you are right Sasha - I had not noticed Mr Hill's calling, my opinions were coloured by my recollections of Popes Head Alley!
Terry Foreman • Link
The Great Ejection followed the Act of Uniformity 1662 in England. Several thousand Puritan ministers were forced out of their positions by Church of England clergy, following the changes after the restoration to power of Charles II. It was a consequence (not necessarily intended) of the Savoy Conference of 1661. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gre…
Terry Foreman • Link
"Mr. Hill of Cambridge...tells me that yesterday put a change to the whole state of England as to the Church; for the King now would be forced to favour Presbytery, or the City would leave him: but I heed not what he says, though upon enquiry I do find that things in the Parliament are in a great disorder."
Joseph Hill was a Fellow of Magdalene. On 25 July the Savoy Conference between Presbyterians and Anglicans had ended without agreement. Hill's forecast was wide of the mark; he was himself a Presbyterian and his prophecy was perhaps illegitimately fathered by his wishes. Even the loss od his fellowship in the next year did not subdue his optimism: see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
Terry Foreman • Link
"but I heed not what he says, though upon enquiry I do find that things in the Parliament are in a great disorder."
L&M: A great volume of legislation had still to be passed, and attendance, particularly among government supporters, had fallen off.