Monday 1 May 1665

Up and to Mr. Povy’s, and by his bedside talked a good while. Among other things he do much insist I perceive upon the difficulty of getting of money, and would fain have me to concur in the thinking of some other way of disposing of the place of Treasurer to one Mr. Bell, but I did seem slight of it, and resolved to try to do the best or to give it up. Thence to the Duke of Albemarle, where I was sorry to find myself to come a little late, and so home, and at noon going to the ‘Change I met my Lord Brunkard, Sir Robert Murry, Deane Wilkins, and Mr. Hooke, going by coach to Colonell Blunts to dinner. So they stopped and took me with them. Landed at the Tower-wharf, and thence by water to Greenwich; and there coaches met us; and to his house, a very stately sight for situation and brave plantations; and among others, a vineyard, the first that ever I did see. No extraordinary dinner, nor any other entertainment good; but only after dinner to the tryall of some experiments about making of coaches easy. And several we tried; but one did prove mighty easy (not here for me to describe, but the whole body of the coach lies upon one long spring), and we all, one after another, rid in it; and it is very fine and likely to take. These experiments were the intent of their coming, and pretty they are. Thence back by coach to Greenwich, and in his pleasure boat to Deptford, and there stopped and in to Mr. Evelyn’s, —[Sayes Court, the well-known residence of John Evelyn.]— which is a most beautiful place; but it being dark and late, I staid not; but Deane Wilkins and Mr. Hooke and I walked to Redriffe; and noble discourse all day long did please me, and it being late did take them to my house to drink, and did give them some sweetmeats, and thence sent them with a lanthorn home, two worthy persons as are in England, I think, or the world. So to my Lady Batten, where my wife is tonight, and so after some merry talk home and to bed.

26 Annotations

Terry Foreman   Link to this

"after dinner to the tryall of some experiments about making of coaches easy. And several we tried"

At last Blount has a chance to give the appointed RS-members test-rides in his new model coaches!

12 April 1665
Col: Blunt about chariots) mr Hook was orderd to prosecute /the module of/ his chariot wth 4 Springs & 4 wheels tending to the ease of the Rider. Orderd tht Ld Brounker Sr R moray. Sr W Petty. Dr Wilkins Col. Blunt & mr Hooke be desired to suggest Expts. for improuing chariots & to bring them into the mechanicall Comtee. that is to meet Apr. 21. at Ld Brounkers.http://webapps.qmul.ac.uk/cell/Hooke/hooke_folio.php?id=47&option=both

26 April 1665
(Blount another modul of chariot. comittee for that purpose to meet at writlemarsh) [Blount's estate in Kent]
http://webapps.qmul.ac.uk/cell/Hooke/hooke_foli...

Terry Foreman   Link to this

JOHN EVELYN TO SAMUEL PEPYS (1)

On the sick and wounded in Ireland

For Samuel Pepys Esqr:
at the Navy Office
London

Sayes Court

1 May 1665 (2)

Sir,

My absence neere 30 miles from my house, when your Letter (3) came thither, will, I hope, excuse the slow returne of this answer: Sir, there is neither in our Commission, or Instructions the least mention made of any provision for Sick and Wounded-men in Ireland; our Districts reaching no farther then Plymouth towards the West, and Yarmouth North-East; and the intermedial ports reduc’d to as few as could be, for sundry important reasons: Notwithstanding I conceive it were very fit there should, for the future, be some courses taken for the settling of some Correspondence there for this effect; but our Commission dos take no Cognizance of it: Sir, when my Collegues in Office meete, I will not faile to Communicat this particular to them, and what his Majestie shall be pleas’d to superadd to his other Commands, I know they will be ready to undertake as far as lyes in their power; this comeing onely from

Sir,

Your most humble servant

JEvelyn:

Source: BL.1469. Endorsed by P, ‘1st: May 1665 Mr Eveling About want of Provision made for sick and wounded in Ireland.’ The letter also bears: a handwritten note that it was purchased in June 1869 from ‘Sotheby and Hodge’; and, a clipping from the sale catalogue describing the letter (Lot 364). It was probably purchased by, or on behalf of, William John Evelyn of Wotton who expended much energy on recovering books and manuscripts connected with the diarist.

MS: ‘Says-Court May.1:65.’ P visited Sayes Court in the evening (‘it being dark and late’ - diary) on this day, perhaps in response to the letter though he does not mention it (ibid). E was not there and states in his own diary only that he went to London on 1 May. He had presumably departed before P arrived.

http://www.romanbritain.freeserve.co.uk/Pepysev...

Pedro   Link to this

This is the first mention by Sam of John Evelyn.

Terry’s annotation on the 27th gave the first known correspondence between them.

http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1665/04/27/

Pedro   Link to this

Allin in trouble...

"Our ship sailed very well in the morning, but about ten and eleven very heavy…there came a sudden rumour that we had 6 foot water in hold, which was very true. We got both our chain pumps to work and overauled it…Blowing fresh we lay down our larboard side, where our leak was, and in less after sucking than half a glass made three foot, but we kept our pumps going and kept her dry...Got over our guns, finding the leak to be defective in the solder of leaden scupper and un-nailed in the lower part and the pitch that was under it cracked out and made so much water in three hours, wet above twenty barrels of powder forward-on and some fish in the aft room and over our ballast and ground tier. We clapped a plug in and nailed a piece of lead over it."

(The Journals of Sir Thomas Allin edited by Anderson)

JWB   Link to this

"The History of Coaches" By George Athelstane Thrupp
http://books.google.com/books?id=UVs1AAAAMAAJ

See Chapt. 2, p 43 for brief discussion of carriage suspensions, p44 Plate#22 Chas II's coach & pps. 46-7 a rundown of Pepys' diary entries. If you did not pause over the author's name, take another look.

A. De Araujo   Link to this

"a vineyard, a first that I ever did see"
What kind of grapes be they?

Paul Chapin   Link to this

"noble discourse all day long did please me"
I can imagine - or maybe I can't. Sam's days are often interesting, but this one I truly envy. A day spent in discourse and experiment with founders of the Royal Society, including Robert Hooke. Sam is in on the beginnings of one of the greatest eras of science the world has ever known.

A. Hamilton   Link to this

Paul,

My reaction too, exactly.

Ruben   Link to this

If you go to the site of the National Museum of Carriages in Lisbon: http://www.museudoscoches-ipmuseus.pt/Coches.html
and at
http://www.museudoscoches-ipmuseus.pt/Coches_De... you can see coaches from Pepys time, still with no suspension. Most of the coaches are French made.
Details from 2 of the coaches, I posted 3 years ago at http://public.fotki.com/lenger/ after a fascinating visit to Portugal.

Mary   Link to this

John Evelyn.

Vice versa. It was Pepys who initiated the correspondence on 27th April and this is Evelyn's reply.

Robert Gertz   Link to this

What a pity Bess was out when Hooke came by...Talk might have turned to the Pepys' adventures in microscopy, Hooke might even have ventured an opinion as to the cause of the growing plague in connection with his studies...

On the other hand given his rep with the ladies, Hooke might have just leered, chuckled at the notion of a woman pursuing interests in natural philosophy, and Bess spent a frustrating evening fetching and catering, shut out of all the interesting talk.

Ruben   Link to this

What kind of grapes be they?
For a cold climate white are better. Usually eaten one by one. If you want to liquify the produce and have it from a bottle see:
http://freespace.virgin.net/donovan.hawley/vine... and find the history of wine in England till today and with whom to associate.

jeannine   Link to this

John Evelyn and Sam’s Correspondence

From “Particular Friends” edited by Guy de la Bédoyère

Regarding their correspondence in the 1660’s

“Most of the letters written by Pepys and Evelyn to one another during the 1660’s were concerned with the practical difficulties of dealing with sick and wounded seamen. With Pepys as Clerk of the Acts in the Navy Office and Evelyn the newly appointed commissioner for sick and wounded seamen and prisoners-or-war they were bound to encounter one another. The correspondence opens with a letter from Pepys which is the earliest letter located between the two”. That first letter was dated 27 April 1665 and appears below (all quoted from above book):

Sir,

From a letter this day come to my hand from a Shipp of ours ( a little Guift) that in a Conflict with a Hollander on the Irish Coast( wherein shoe thorough much over match hath acquitted her selfe very well) hath had severall Men wounded, who are putt on shoare for care at Galloway, give me leave to aske you whether any Provision for sick and wounded men is made in Ireland, not with respect to theis Men only, but to future occasions in Generall which wee may Probably have of useing it there. You will Pardon this enquiry from one that hath soe little Right to offer you trouble as

Your humble servant
S:P

And Evelyn’s reply dated 1 May 1665:

Sir,

My absence neere 30 miles from my house, when you Letter came thither, will, I hope, excuse the slow returne of this answer: Sir, there is neither in our Commission, or Instructions the least mention made of any provision for Sick and Wounded-men in Ireland; our Districts reaching no father then Plymouth towards the West, and Yarmouth North-East; and the intermedial ports reduce’d to as few as could be, for sundry important reasons: Notwithstanding I conceive it were very fit there should, for the future, be some courses taken for the settling of some Correspondence there for this effect; but our Commission dos take no Congnizance of it: Sir, when my Collegues in Office meete, I will not faile to Communicat that particular to them, and what his Majestie shall be pleas’d to superadd to his other Commands, I know they will be ready to undertake as far as lyes on their power; this comeing only from

Sir,
Your most humble servant
JEvelyn

jeannine   Link to this

Oops Terry--sorry I repeated your Evelyn letter from today's entry (his reply) apprarently my mind isn't too focuced this morning!

JWB   Link to this

"The History of English Wine Production " English Wine Producers

"There are records of some vineyards in the 17th century. The great botanist John Tradescant planted 20,000 vines on his employer Lord Salisbury’s estate in Hertfordshire and the vineyards became well-renowned. In 1666, John Rose, Gardener to Charles II at His Royal Garden in St. James’s, wrote a treatise on the cultivation of vines in this country called “The English Vineyard Vindicated”, in which he discussed the question of site selection, vine varieties, pruning and training and care of the vines up to the harvest."

http://www.englishwineproducers.com/history.htm

A. De Araujo   Link to this

Thank you Ruben and JWB, nice links.

Michael Robinson   Link to this

More Evelyn -- John Rose, “The English Vineyard Vindicated”, (1666)

The preface is signed 'Philocepos,' i.e. John Evelyn, who compiled the text based on "matter" provided by Rose. (Keynes 80); the text was re-issued as an appendix to Evelyn's translation of Bonnefons, 'The French Gardiner' (1669) (rpr 1672, 75, 91) which contains a description of wine-making by Evelyn, said to be the first composed in English, "The vintage", part 2 p. 39-48. A copy is available on the web via: http://www.wine-maker.net/LibraryIndexPage.html

Ruben   Link to this

"each man under his own vine and fig tree"
I grow my own 2 vines in a container on a balcony. They get a lot of sun and Mediterranean wind, the sea being 300 meters away. I get shade, grapes and some insects.
Vine has a special meaning around here. My first encounter with this image was in Emil Ludwig excelent book "The Mediterranean" (a history book), where the Greek keeper of the lighthouse cultured an old vine growing between rocks.
I would like to hear what the annotators think about the meaning of vines in England in Pepys time.
Was it for the grapes? wine? the remembrance of a Toscanean panorama? to use at Church? Or all together

CGS   Link to this

Wine growing in UK: some did it in hopes to make a good profit, along with other plants of exotic background, for instance -Tobacco .
Others, it be just be curiosity and have money and time on hand, others it could be for religious purposes as the Bible dothe mention this tipple many times.

The 17C does appear to be a time for asking why and testing anything that came to mind, i.e. why the wind can make a sail bloom to trying to row a boat under water. De Cartes opened up many minds to use their noggin and stop taking so much on faith of ones fathers, the examples are numerous, from Espinoza, Boyle, Newton etc.
Some of the reasons for this explosion of change, one be money, others it be for the intellect, others, because, no simple answer.
Why the changes, My take it be all the various foods from all over world, addling some brains, We are what the mouth ingests and the system extracts, no two be identical, along the other transforming systems eardrums, noses, eyeballs and fingers..

Pedro   Link to this

Evelyn’s translation of Bonnefons, ‘The French Gardiner’

Summary from Gillian Darley’s biography of Evelyn…

Thomas Henshaw suggested that Evelyn should translate De Bonnefon’s Le Jardinier Francois (1651) and by early July 1658 it was in press. Evelyn’s translations from French owed much to Mary Evelyn, at his elbow to correct and improve his text. She was to have her own tribute in the text being three chapters on preserving fruit with sugar, but they were omitted as she said “I am assured by a Lady that there is nothing extraordinary amongst them.”

(Evelyn’s wife seems to have been a very interesting lady)

JWB   Link to this

Ruben
"each man under his own vine and fig tree”

I suggest that vinyards on the scale of Lord Salisbury's were planted in accord with the merchantilist ethos. Why pay Portugal et al. gold for what could be grown at home. In a similar vane, with the passage of Revenue Act of 1764 wine was heavily taxed which lead to a boycott here in the US. We then began cultivating the native Vitis labrusca (Fox grape), two varieties of which are Concord & Catawba. I'm looking out over my 100 foot arbor of Concords as I write, though for the last decade or so I've not harvest but a hand or two because of the deer. Still I've got several gallons of Concord, vintage 1970's laid up in the basement.

dirk   Link to this

English wine

This subject was discussed earlier (http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1660/12/13/)

Also see background info (encyclopedia):
http://www.pepysdiary.com/encyclopedia/309/#c9451
and subsequent annotations.

dirk   Link to this

The link between brackets turned out to be unworkable.
So here it is again:

http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1660/12/13/

CGS   Link to this

needs air or breathing space between bracket and the H [ ( ]
( http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1660/12/13/ )

Ruben   Link to this

thank you Dirk for the reference. I had completely forgotten the previous discussion.
I found there annotations by a certain Vincent and In aqua scripto, that were not so salty as they have become nowadays.

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