Tuesday 18 October 1664

Up and to the office, where among other things we made a very great contract with Sir W. Warren for 3,000 loade of timber. At noon dined at home. In the afternoon to the Fishery, where, very confused and very ridiculous, my Lord Craven’s proceedings, especially his finding fault with Sir J. Collaton and Colonell Griffin’s’ report in the accounts of the lottery-men. Thence I with Mr. Gray in his coach to White Hall, but the King and Duke being abroad, we returned to Somersett House. In discourse I find him a very worthy and studious gentleman in the business of trade, and among-other things he observed well to me, how it is not the greatest wits, but the steady man, that is a good merchant: he instanced in Ford and Cocke, the last of whom he values above all men as his oracle, as Mr. Coventry do Mr. Jolliffe. He says that it is concluded among merchants, that where a trade hath once been and do decay, it never recovers again, and therefore that the manufacture of cloath of England will never come to esteem again; that, among other faults, Sir Richard Ford cannot keepe a secret, and that it is so much the part of a merchant to be guilty of that fault that the Duke of Yoke is resolved to commit no more secrets to the merchants of the Royall Company; that Sir Ellis Layton is, for a speech of forty words, the wittiest man that ever he knew in his life, but longer he is nothing, his judgment being nothing at all, but his wit most absolute. At Somersett House he carried me in, and there I saw the Queene’s new rooms, which are most stately and nobly furnished; and there I saw her, and the Duke of Yorke and Duchesse were there. The Duke espied me, and came to me, and talked with me a very great while about our contract this day with Sir W. Warren, and among other things did with some contempt ask whether we did except Polliards, which Sir W. Batten did yesterday (in spite, as the Duke I believe by my Lord Barkely do well enough know) among other things in writing propose. Thence home by coach, it raining hard, and to my office, where late, then home to supper and to bed. This night the Dutch Embassador desired and had an audience of the King. What the issue of it was I know not. Both sides I believe desire peace, but neither will begin, and so I believe a warr will follow. The Prince is with his fleet at Portsmouth, and the Dutch are making all preparations for warr.

18 Annotations

Terry F   Link to this

On behalf of Dirk: from the Carte Calendar

Ormond to the Deputy Lieutenants of Somersetshire
Written from: Whitehall

Date: 18 October 1664

Shelfmark: MS. Carte 145, fol(s). 60
Document type: Copy [in Letter Book]

The utmost assistance is to be given to the Vice-Admirals of the maritime parts of the county of Somerset, & their officers, in the due impressment of seamen for his Majesty's present service.

Ormond to the Deputy Lieutenants of Bristol
Written from: Whitehall

Date: 18 October 1664

Shelfmark: MS. Carte 145, fol(s). 60
Document type: Copy

To like effect.

http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/projects...

Australian Susan   Link to this

"...the manufacture of cloath of England will never come to esteem again;..." If only he could have seen the dominance of English cotton manufacture in the 19th century!

PGE   Link to this

"3,000 loade of timber" Is a "loade" a standardized unit of measure?

Bradford   Link to this

Companion Large Glossary, citing what seems to be this entry, calls a loade "50 cu. feet". Metric conversionists, take it away. Even better, were it possible, would be a workaday comparison, "About the size of a _____." But what big object (or space) would all our readers be familiar with? Interesting that with considerations of scale, smaller ("About the size of an iPod") is more universal than larger.

Larry Bunce   Link to this

I did a little look-up, and found that one board-foot is 1/12 of a cubic foot, or 0.00236 cubic meters. 50 cubic feet comes out to 600 board feet, or 1.416 cubic meters. I also found out that the average 3 bedroom house contains 11,000 board feet of framing lumber alone. If I did the math correctly, 3000 loads would build 163 houses.

Michael Robinson   Link to this

" ... the accounts of the lottery-men."

The only record of a lottery that took place in 1664 under the Fishery Company's monopoly:-

A lottery licensed by His Royal Highness the Duke of York, and assistants of the Corporation of the Royal Fishing, erected by the author, for the vending of certain volumes of his own books. Whereas John Ogilby Esq; ...
[London : s.n., 1664]
1 sheet ([1] p.) ; 1⁰.

The lottery was intended to raise funds for the publication of editions of John Ogilby's translations of Homer's Odyssey and Aesop's Fables. Wing (CD-ROM, 1996), O177aA

also:-
Ogilby, John, 1600-1676.
Mr. Ogilby's lottery, licensed by His Royal Highness the Duke of York, and assistants of the Corporation of the Royal Fishing, for the vending of certain volumes of his own books.
[London : s.n., 1665?]
[1] p.) ; 1⁰.

Listing results of one lottery (1664) and proposing another; the prize lots consist of his books, listed here with his valuations -- Wing (CD-ROM, 1996), O177bA

Pepys had purchased a copy of the Aesop:

"Hence home, and took home with me from the bookseller's Ogilby's AEsop, which he had bound for me, and indeed I am very much pleased with the book. Home and to bed."
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1661/01/18/

[Aesop: editions in 1651, 1665, 1668, 1673, 1675, 1683]

[Homer: prospectus 1660; Iliad 1660, 1669; Odyssey 1665, 1669]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ogilby

Bergie   Link to this

Loade
A cube about 3 feet 8 inches on a side contains 50 cubic feet.

Terry F   Link to this

L&M note the "3,000 loade of timber" include pieces specified by the Navy Board, e.g., "46 pieces for for beams for the broadest parts of 2nd-rates," etc.

Paul Chapin   Link to this

"About the size of a ..."
A single bed that is 6 1/4 feet (75 inches) long, 4 feet wide, and 2 feet high, occupies 50 cubic feet.

Paul Chapin   Link to this

"for a speech of forty words, the wittiest man that ever he knew in his life, but longer he is nothing"
I love this characterization.

Paul Chapin   Link to this

Sir Ellis would have been well suited to host a late night talk show.

Andrew Hamilton   Link to this

Willie Warren and the Duke

(Old SF/NY Giants fans can hum along)

Pepys brings home his ship (the Warren contract, a biggie, for which he expects a big reward from Willie)) and the Duke smells something (all that gossip about Sam& Willie having reached his ears). Tough moment for Sam; takes the edge off victory?

Pedro   Link to this

"This night the Dutch Embassador desired and had an audience of the King. What the issue of it was I know not. Both sides I believe desire peace, but neither will begin, and so I believe a warr will follow"

A summary of the background to this from English Foreign Policy 1660-1672 by Feiling...

The Dutch ambassador, Van Goch had arrived in June and received assurances that Downing would soon return, and that Holmes, if found guilty, would be punished.

While Van Goch comfirmed in Charles the impression stereotyped by Downing, that Holland would not fight, across the water de Witt harboured, till the end of August, a like delusion.

The order to send De Ruyter to Guinea in August had long remained hidden from the English; the fact was denied point blank by de Witt to Downing, more circuitously by Van Goch to the King, and only the brought home by Lawson's arrival in October.

Warnings had been given to Van Goch by Charles, York and Archbishop Sheldon, that if a squaron sailed for Guinea, it would be taken as a rupture. Forcible reprisals of this sort, the English argued, would violate the treaty of 1662, and were, in Arlington's words, "no other than club-law". In late September de Witt demanded unconditional restoration of Guinea, whithout which he would not hear of the older pretentions, and a pledge of naval inactivity. England, on the other hand, declared that the sending of the fleet was tantamount to war, stuck to their old grievencies, insisted on freedom of trade, and would not condemn Holmes unheard; that, Downing told de Witt, was "the way of treating their fotmen".

In October the deadlock hardened further, with the news of the siezure of New York and of De Ruyter's voyage on Lawson's return. On the 18th October the King told Van Goch, that if the news of the voyage was true, he would be "juggled with" no longer.

A. Hamilton   Link to this

On the 18th October the King told Van Goch, that if the news of the voyage was true, he would be "juggled with" no longer.

Whereupon the Dutch ambassador promptly went out and cut off his own ear, thus starting a family tradition.

JWB   Link to this

"Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief." said humbug Polonius.

Bradford   Link to this

Thanks to Larry, Bergie, Terry, and Paul for taking a loade off our minds.

If you crossed Sir Ellis with a Scottish preacher, . . .

Australian Susan   Link to this

Nice one Bradford! We haven't heard Sam whingeing about the dreariness of the "Scotch preacher's" sermons for a while (but then he hasn't been at St Olave's much). Thank you to Pedro for his summary: clarifying a complex political situation where everyone is sidling about not really saying what they're doing and vice versa.

Pedro   Link to this

John Evelyn on the 18th...

At Oxford. Went through Woodstock, where we beheld the destruction of that royal seat and park by the late rebels, and arrived that evening at Cornbury, a house lately built by the Earl of Denbigh, in the middle of a sweet park, walled with a dry wall.2 The house is of excellent freestone, abounding in that part, (a stone that is fine, but never sweats, or casts any damp); it is of ample dimensions, has goodly cellars, the paving of the hall admirable for its close laying. We designed a handsome chapel that was yet wanting: as Mr. May had the stables, which indeed are very fair, having set out the walks in the park and gardens. The lodge is a pretty solitude, and the ponds very convenient; the park well stored.

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