Tuesday 30 May 1665

Lay long, and very busy all the morning, at noon to the ’Change, and thence to dinner to Sir G. Carteret’s, to talk upon the business of insuring our goods upon the Hambrough [ships]. Here a very fine, neat French dinner, without much cost, we being all alone with my Lady and one of the house with her.

Thence home and wrote letters, and then in the evening, by coach, with my wife and mother and Mercer, our usual tour by coach, and eat at the old house at Islington; but, Lord! to see how my mother found herself talk upon every object to think of old stories. Here I met with one that tells me that Jack Cole, my old schoolefellow, is dead and buried lately of a consumption, who was a great crony of mine.

So back again home, and there to my closet to write letters. Hear to my great trouble that our Hambrough ships,1 valued of the King’s goods and the merchants’ (though but little of the former) to 200,000l. [are lost]. By and by, about 11 at night, called into the garden by my Lady Pen and daughter, and there walked with them and my wife till almost twelve, and so in and closed my letters, and home to bed.

27 Annotations

First Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"French dinner"

L&M explain this was a meal served course by course, and included soup.

DougS  •  Link

Question: Why when speaking of a Lord (or Lady) does Sam always use "my"? He doesn't with others who have titles (including the King), and he seems to be absolutely, almost religiously, consistent with this.

Is it because the meaning of the word "lord" at that time demands the "my," i.e., establishes a "relationship" with the speaker that needs to be acknowledged so-to-speak in the structure of the language with the word "my."

Of course, in later years the "my" was dropped, and now it's treated like "King" or "Mr." or what have you.

And any idea why, and also any idea when it was dropped?

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"Lord! to see how my mother found herself talk upon every object to think of old stories."

SP prattled on the same way to Bess and then to his Diary when he was there 25 April last year:
"I took my wife by coach out through the city, discoursing how to spend the afternoon; and conquered, with much ado, a desire of going to a play; but took her out at White Chapel, and to Bednal Green; so to Hackney, where I have not been many a year, since a little child I boarded there. Thence to Kingsland, by my nurse’s house, Goody Lawrence, where my brother Tom and I was kept when young. Then to Newington Green, and saw the outside of Mrs. Herbert’s house, where she lived, and my Aunt Ellen with her; but, Lord! how in every point I find myself to over-value things when a child. Thence to Islington, and so to St. John’s to the Red Bull, and there: saw the latter part of a rude prize fought, but with good pleasure enough; and thence back to Islington, and at the King’s Head, where Pitts lived, we ‘light and eat and drunk for remembrance of the old house sake, and so through Kingsland again, and so to Bishopsgate, and so home with great pleasure." http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…

Robert Gertz  •  Link

",,,but, Lord! to see how my mother found herself talk upon every object to think of old stories..."

To steal from "Crossing Delancey" "...And you don't write them down? These are pearls she gives you."

dirk  •  Link

John Evelyn's diary today
(see also yesterday's entry!)

"din’d at Canterbury, next to Dover, visited the Governor at the Castle where I had some Prisoners: My son went to sea but was not sick."

A. De Araujo  •  Link

"but Lord!to see how my mother found herself talk upon every object to think of old stories"
A trip down memory lane ,Samuel!that proves she doesn't have Alzheimers.

CGS  •  Link

yup: ADA:; I be afflicted with that same disease, foot in mouth too, one of the sines{sic] of sans eyes sans teeth.

So here be Another affliction of the next generation, Parents do not communicate on the same wavelength as the smarter offspring.

Mary  •  Link

memory lane.

Persistence of long-term memory is no proof of the absence of dementia; it's loss of short-term memory that tends to be one of the earlier markers for the state.

However, let's not get into the whole dementia/no dementia debate yet again. We don't have enough evidence to judge Mama's state of mind definitively and perhaps we never shall have.

Tony Eldridge  •  Link

to Sir G. Carteret’s, to talk upon the business of insuring our goods upon the Hambrough [ships].

Are they discussing whether to insure some time after the ships have sailed - and just before they (and the insurers) will learn that the goods are lost? How would that work?
Or are they congratulating themselves on being insured - but, if so, why would Sam be troubled when they learn that the ships have been taken?
Was 'insurance' similar to shorting shares these days i.e. a form of gambling to minimise losses?

Pedro  •  Link

And concerning the Fleet.

“At 8 in the morning the fleet was loose. Wind NE, gentle gale. The beginning of a tide of ebb, wherewith we fell down until we brought Orford Church NNW of us about 5 leagues, and then came to anchor in a great fog (the whole day being full of fogs) in 15 fathom.”

(Journal of Edward Montagu edited by Anderson)

Robert Gertz  •  Link

Bess continues to play the dutiful daughter-in-law to perfection it seems, not a peep of trouble so far recorded. Of course she must be relishing the chance to play "milady Pepys" to Mom-in-law, while Sam has probably loosened the purse strings a little to allow the trip to go well. And Mercer continues to deal well with Bess. An indication that Bess has found some point of equilibrium in her relationship with Sam and so is dealing a little better with others? Perhaps with all the war news and seeing Sam so constantly busy she's proud of him, anxious to do what she can to help by making things easy, and a little relieved-if he's so weary from work and so well accounted for in his wanderings these days, with everyone praising his efforts, he's not likely to be up to something.

Martin  •  Link

"My Lord" is the form of address used when speaking to a Lord (who can be a marquis, earl, viscount, baron, their eldest son, a Church of England bishop, or a high official such as the Lord Chancellor). Pepys does very occasionally refer to a Lord as just Lord So-and-so without the "my", but it's his habit to refer to them as "my Lord" because that's what he would always say when speaking to them. Some writers of his day followed this form, some didn't. Some cursory hunting in Google Books seems to show the usage fading away during the following century. To the king, Sam would say "Your highness", if the same etiquette held in his day as today. See current list of UK forms of address here:

A. De Araujo  •  Link

"Mama's state of mind"
Well Mary, the average time that a person lives after the diagnosis of Alzheimer's Disease is made, is 8 years; it does not remit and it progress, cf Rita Hayworth,Ronald Reagan,Charlton Heston and many others; so if by the end of the Diary if Mama is still around we can prwtty much rule out Alzheimer's.

Pedro  •  Link

"who was a great crony of mine."

Can anyone with OED enlighten of the origin?

Paul Chapin  •  Link

Pedro, good catch. Today's entry is the first attested use of the word. Here's what the OED says:

[Found first after 1660. According to Skinner 1671 ‘vox academica’, i.e. a term of university or college slang. No connexion with "crone" has been traced.]
An intimate friend or associate; a ‘chum’.
1665 Pepys Diary 30 May, Jack Cole, my old school-fellow+who was a great chrony of mine. 1678 Butler Hud. iii. ii. 1269 The Scots, your constant Cronies, Th' Espousers of your Cause, and Monies. 1710 Steele Tatler No. 266 32 This is from Mrs. Furbish+an old School-Fellow and great Crony of her Ladyship's. 1818 Scott Old Mort. xi, The poor lad—my old cronie's son! 1857 W. Collins Dead Secret iii. ii. (1861) 78 Her father and the doctor had been old cronies. 1864 Thackeray D. Duval vi. (1869) 85 My schoolfellow+became a great crony of mine.

A. De Araujo  •  Link

chronos=time, in greek;
con tempo rary:tempo=time.
speculation of course.

GrahamT  •  Link

Pointer to spoiler.
"...if by the end of the Diary if Mama is still around we can pretty much rule out Alzheimer’s"
Clicking on the link above and reading Pauline's annotation gives the date of her death, but I don't think in this case it gives any clue to Alzheimer's or not.
Besides, not all dementia is Alzheimer's, and we only have her loving son's word that she is actually in her dotage.

Nix  •  Link

Crony --

Webster's New World Dictionary links it to chronos, but it's interesting that the more scholarly OED doesn't.

DougS  •  Link


Thank you for that.

One thing, though: He uses the oral form of address when writing about a lord, but he doesn't use the verbal form of address when mentioning the king.

It just seemed like a bit of a strange tick to the extent he's pretty consistent only with lords.

Mary  •  Link

forms of address.

If addressing the King, I think that "your Majesty" would be a more likely form of address than "your Highness."

Our present queen is addressed as 'Your Majesty' in the first instance and thereafter as 'Ma'am' in any ensuing remarks. ("ma'am" rhymes with "jam" in this case, and not with "farm.")

Australian Susan  •  Link

A Sovereign of the UK is a Majesty, other members of Royal family are His/Her Royal Highness, but only when they remain within the family - for example, the divorced current Duchess of York has lost her HRH status and the Duchess of Windsor was never accorded it.

Bill Hilton  •  Link

Re: "crony" - this is off the top of my head, but I think Wood uses it to describe Milton's relationship with Marchamont Nedham in Athenae Oxoniensis (1674). Considering how buttoned-up and proper Wood is, this suggests the word was a very respectable kind of slang.

Second Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"valued of the King’s goods and the merchants’ "

L&^M have "little of the King’s goods and the merchants’ ".

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"Hear to my great trouble that our Hambrough ships,1 valued of the King’s goods and the merchants’ (though but little of the former) to 200,000l. [are lost]. "

On the evening of 20 May, eight merchantmen sailing from Hamburgwith naval stores mistook the Dutch for the English fleet and sailed right into it. All were taken, together with the escort vessel, the Good Hope. Pepys probably heard by letter from Coventry. (L&M note)

David G  •  Link

In response to Tony Eldridge's question from ten years ago, back in the seventeenth century, insurance served two functions. First, it could transfer the risk of loss from the owner of property to a third party (now, an insurance company; then, a wealthy person willing to risk capital in exchange for a profit if no claims were presented). Second, it was a form of gambling. That is, one could purchase insurance on property owned by someone else and if that person suffers a loss, the policyholder could present a claim to the insurer. This latter type of insurance presented a moral hazard, that is, it tempted policyholders to commit crimes in order to collect on an insurance policy, e.g., someone might buy insurance on a ship owned by a third party and then hire a pirate to capture the ship. To eliminate the moral hazard, Parliament enacted laws in the 1720s requiring a policyholder to have an "insurable interest" in any property that the insurance policy covers, that is, the policyholder must have a very good reason for avoiding a claim such as owning or leasing the property that the insurance policy covers. Similarly, I can purchase a life insurance policy that covers my spouse but cannot buy life insurance on a neighbor who lives across the street.

In this instance, Sam and Sir George Carteret are discussing the first type of insurance -- the type we still have today -- because they were talking about buying insurance for "our goods." There was no rule then, and there really is no rule now, preventing someone from buying insurance on a cargo after the ship has sailed and before anything has happened to the cargo. As it turned out, however, the Dutch captured the ships carrying the Hamburg cargo before Sam and Sir George got around to buying insurance. All in all, the Dutch war does not seem to have been well managed.

Tonyel  •  Link

Thanks David G for the excellent summary. I'm 'reading' the diary all over again and delighted to get an answer after ten years !

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"... about 11 at night, called into the garden by my Lady Pen and daughter, and there walked with them and my wife till almost twelve, ..."

How romantic. Pepys and three women ... he was in his element.

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