Monday 5 December 1664

Up, and to White Hall with Sir J. Minnes; and there, among an infinite crowd of great persons, did kiss the Duke’s hand; but had no time to discourse. Thence up and down the gallery, and got my Lord of Albemarle’s hand to my bill for Povy, but afterwards was asked some scurvy questions by Povy about my demands, which troubled [me], but will do no great hurt I think. Thence vexed home, and there by appointment comes my cozen Roger Pepys and Mrs. Turner, and dined with me, and very merry we were. They staid all the afternoon till night, and then after I had discoursed an hour with Sir W. Warren plainly declaring my resolution to desert him if he goes on to join with Castle, who and his family I, for great provocation, love not, which he takes with some trouble, but will concur in everything with me, he says. Now I am loth, I confess, to lose him, he having been the best friend I have had ever in this office. So he being gone, we all, it being night, in Madam Turner’s coach to her house, there to see, as she tells us, how fat Mrs. The. is grown, and so I find her, but not as I expected, but mightily pleased I am to hear the mother commend her daughter Betty that she is like to be a great beauty, and she sets much by her. Thence I to White Hall, and there saw Mr. Coventry come to towne, and, with all my heart, am glad to see him, but could have no talke with him, he being but just come. Thence back and took up my wife, and home, where a while, and then home to supper and to bed.

25 Annotations

A. De Araujo   Link to this

"how fat Mrs. The is grown"
Seems to me that fat did not have the same connotation as nowadays;Rubens in the Netherlands seems to have looked at obesity as healthy and erotic;
anyway Mrs Theophila did not live to a ripe old age.

cgs   Link to this

As food be in short supply for many , extra weight was a sign of prosperity, i.e. make it while ye can.

cape henry   Link to this

Two interesting threads to tease out of this day of socializing and politicking. One concerns the "bill for Povy" and "[Povy's] scurvy questions" regarding that. The other involves the discussion with Warren regarding his support of Castle. In the former instance it is evident that Pepys is miffed for having Povy question the contents of the bill duly signed by Albemarle - if I read that right. In the latter, however,we're taken into a matter with Warren I do not recall previously discussed. Any clues, or have I missed something recently? (Easy enough with the past holiday...)

Daniel.O.Jenkins   Link to this

The ideal of feminine beauty that includes the capacity to survive minor famines has been the norm for most of human history & prehistory, and still is in much of the world.

Thin is (heroin) chic is quite recent.

Pedro   Link to this

You heard it first from the Rev Ralph...

[An Lohd] 5. this morning a blazing star seen in Earles Colne as several said, I endeavoured much to see it until the 11. but could not.

Pedro   Link to this

You heard it first from the Rev Ralph...

[An Lohd] 5. this morning a blazing star seen in Earles Colne as several said, I endeavoured much to see it until the 11. but could not.

andy   Link to this

among an infinite crowd of great persons...was asked some scurvy questions...

just to admire Sam's use of language here. Very modern. Definitely phrases to drop into c21 conversation. "Oh I was in committee last night and was asked some scurvy questions by councillor x" etc

Robert Gertz   Link to this

I see Sam senses Sir Will Warren's love is perhaps not undivided. I suspect for Sam this really is a personal issue. He was very fond of Sir Will Penn until Penn made it quite clear he regarded Sam as a junior and sought to rub the point in over that contracts' affair a while back. He's desperate to establish himself as a member of the elite and hypersensitive to any slight or hint that he is out of his place. Of course the loss of those 100L boxes of gold would be bad, too.

***

So Povy is sensing he's being ripped off, eh. Lucky for Sam he's not the type to hire "muscle" to settle his business affairs.

JWB   Link to this

"...Castle, who and his family I, for great provocation, love not,..."

Roger's momma was a Castell. Connection?

JWB   Link to this

Mrs. The?

What's with the Mrs.? Transcription mistake or a teasing name for the fat & sassy family pet? Or is this not the "The", who's what, 13 in '64?

Mary   Link to this

Mrs. The

Sam not infrequently abbreviates the daughter, Theophila's, name in this way.

The 'Mrs.' is purely a courtesy title, indicating that the girl is not a mere wench, but more important than that. It does not necessarily have anything to do with age or marital status in a context such as this.

JWB   Link to this

Mary:

Thanks for reminding me. So cold out here this morning, trouble starting sclerotic gray matter.

Mary   Link to this

Mrs. The

Sam not infrequently abbreviates the daughter, Theophila's, name in this way.

The 'Mrs.' is purely a courtesy title, indicating that the girl is not a mere wench, but more important than that. It does not necessarily have anything to do with age or marital status in a context such as this.

Mary   Link to this

Sorry for repetition; glitch somewhere.

jeannine   Link to this

"In the latter, however,we’re taken into a matter with Warren I do not recall previously discussed. Any clues, or have I missed something recently? (Easy enough with the past holiday…)"

CH--I don't think that the Castle-Warren 'connection' has been discussed. There are annotations (letters, documents outside of the Diary) that I posted on the following days that may offer additional background-sorry can't link it all together nicely -on the fly today.

All 1664
Oct 10th
Nov 8
Nov 10
Nov 16

Andrew Hamilton   Link to this

Castle-Warren

This new connection also caught my eye. Castle is Sir Wm. Batten's son-in-law. I think the disturbance Sam feels combines a feeling of personal betrayal (Gertz)with fear of being outmaneuvered by his bete noir. Warren might work with Castle to cheat the king's treasury while bypassing Pepys's purse and battening Batten's.

Terry Foreman   Link to this

"Mrs. The"

Her title would have been pronounced "Mistress" -- no plain The she.

Australian Susan   Link to this

Theophilia is a most pert miss, a very knowing chit, bordering on the brattish.
I was watching an episode of Bones last night (whilst ironing 13 blue shirts....) about the death of a 9 year old junior Pageant queen - 21st century Mistress Theophilia's? (whose talent is harpsichord playing).

Robert Gertz   Link to this

I love The, I must say... I only wish Sam had put more of her and her sharp wit in the Diary. A little rough on poor Mr. Turner and the boys though to have Jane, The, and Betty off to London so much. But I suppose it's good for family harmony.

cgs   Link to this

It be fickle [ arbitrary, capricious, changeable, coquettish ] to call a female who may or may not be in wedded bliss, Mistress, Ms, Miss , Mrs, Miz, Mz. , as opposed to Master or Mr..
from the OED

[Shortened < MISTRESS n. (orig. as graphic abbreviation); on subsequent development of a distinct spoken realization see discussion below. For occasional corresponding fuller written forms see MISSUS n. Cf. MR n.
In the latter half of the 17th cent. there was a general tendency to confine the use of written abbreviations to words of inferior syntactical importance, such as prefixed titles. The form Mrs. for mistress therefore fell into disuse except when prefixed to a name; and in this position the writing of the full form gradually became unusual. The contracted pronunciation became, for the prefixed title, first a permitted colloquial licence, and ultimately the only allowable pronunciation. When this stage was reached, Mrs. (with the contracted pronunciation) became a distinct word from mistress. As to the chronology of these changes evidence is lacking; but it may be noted that J. Walker in his Crit. Pronouncing Dict. of 1828 says that mistress as a title of civility is pronounced missis, and that ‘to pronounce the word as it is written would, in these cases, appear quaint and pedantick’; this generally accords with the earliest printed attestations of the form missus (see MISSUS n.).]

I. Simple uses.

Robert Gertz   Link to this

So The has the brain, Betty the beauty. Though I can't help thinking The is both sharp-witted and pretty, if a brat.

Hmmn...I know from Tomalin at least that Jane Turner lives in London in her own house left her by her father, leaving her husband and sons for long stretches. I suppose it's considered

Robert Gertz   Link to this

Whoops, old half-finished thought...Sorry, Phil.

Terry Foreman   Link to this

Damage Cleere.

A Bill for taking away of Damage Cleere, was this Day read the Second time.

Resolved, &c. That the said Bill be committed to [a Committee]...And they are to meet on Friday next, at Two of the Clock in the Afternoon, in the Speaker's Chamber; and to summon and hear the Prothonotaries, and other Persons concerned: And to send for Persons, Papers, and Records. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?co...

[DAMAGE CLEERE]. An Act for Taking away the Fee of Damage
Cleere. Printed by Edward Husband and John Field [etc.], London,
1650. Attractively matted; with the Commonwealth seal,
black-letter. [42994 C16XYL16L53] $ 650.00

The broadside officially publicizing the act of the Commonwealth
Parliament abolishing the vexatious fee of court called damage
cleer or damna clericorum, in which court clerks had been entitled
to an automatic 10% of all judgments. http://legalminds.lp.findlaw.com/list/newlawboo...

Terry Foreman   Link to this

Damage Cleere. [spoiler...)

Reported abolished in 1650 under the Commonwealth, apparently Damage Cleere survived; the current bill will result in in Act sometime late next year. (The clerks were a very powerful lobby. Pepys had been, and in a sense is yet one of them.)

Nix   Link to this

DAMAGE-CLEER. A fee assessed of the tenth part in the common pleas, and the twentieth part in the queen's bench and exchequer, out of all damages exceeding five marks recovered in thos courts, in actions upon the case, covenant, trespass, etc., wherein the damages were uncertain; wich the plaintiff was obliged to pay to the prothonotary or the officer of the court wherein he recovered, before he could have execution for the damages. This was originally a gratuity given to the prothonotaries and their clerks for drawing special writs and pleadings; but it was taken away by statute, since which, if any officer in these courts took any money in the name of damage-cleer, or anything in lieu thereof, he forfeited treble the value. [From Black's Law Dictionary, rev. 4th ed., 1968]

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