Friday 27 June 1662

Up early, not quite rid of my pain. I took more physique, and so made myself ready to go forth. So to my Lord, who rose as soon as he heard I was there; and in his nightgown and shirt stood talking with me alone two hours,. I believe, concerning his greatest matters of state and interest. Among other things, that his greatest design is, first, to get clear of all debts to the King for the Embassy money, and then a pardon. Then, to get his land settled; and then to, discourse and advise what is best for him, whether to keep his sea employment longer or no. For he do discern that the Duke would be willing to have him out, and that by Coventry’s means. And here he told me, how the terms at Argier were wholly his; and that he did plainly tell Lawson and agree with him, that he would have the honour of them, if they should ever be agreed to; and that accordingly they did come over hither entitled, “Articles concluded on by Sir J. Lawson, according to instructions received from His Royal Highness James Duke of York, &c., and from His Excellency the Earle of Sandwich.” (Which however was more than needed; but Lawson tells my Lord in his letter, that it was not he, but the Council of Warr that would have “His Royal Highness” put into the title, though he did not contribute one word to it.) But the Duke of York did yesterday propose them to the Council, to be printed with this title: “Concluded on, by Sir J. Lawson, Knt.” and my Lord quite left out. Here I find my Lord very politique; for he tells me, that he discerns they design to set up Lawson as much as they can and that he do counterplot them by setting him up higher still; by which they will find themselves spoiled of their design, and at last grow jealous of Lawson. This he told me with much pleasure; and that several of the Duke’s servants, by name my Lord Barkeley [of Stratton], Mr. Talbot, and others, had complained to my Lord of Coventry, and would have him out. My Lord do acknowledge that his greatest obstacle is Coventry. He did seem to hint such a question as this: “Hitherto I have been supported by the King and Chancellor against the Duke; but what if it should come about, that it should be the Duke and Chancellor against the King?” which, though he said it in these plain words, yet I could not fully understand it; but may more here after. My Lord did also tell me, that the Duke himself at Portsmouth did thank my Lord for all his pains and care; and that he perceived it must be the old Captains that must do the business; and that the new ones would spoil all. And that my Lord did very discreetly tell the Duke (though quite against his judgement and inclination), that, however, the King’s new captains ought to be borne with a little and encouraged. By which he will oblige that party, and prevent, as much as may be, their envy; but he says that certainly things will go to rack if ever the old captains should be wholly out, and the new ones only command. Then we fell to talk of Sir J. Minnes, of whom my Lord hath a very slight opinion, and that at first he did come to my Lord very displeased and sullen, and had studied and turned over all his books to see whether it had ever been that two flags should ride together in the main-top, but could not find it, nay, he did call his captains on board to consult them. So when he came by my Lord’s side, he took down his flag, and all the day did not hoist it again, but next day my Lord did tell him that it was not so fit to ride without a flag, and therefore told him that he should wear it in the fore-top, for it seems my Lord saw his instructions, which were that he should not wear his flag in the maintop in the presence of the Duke or my Lord. But that after that my Lord did caress him, and he do believe him as much his friend as his interest will let him. I told my Lord of the late passage between Swan and me, and he told me another lately between Dr. Dell and himself when he was in the country. At last we concluded upon dispatching all his accounts as soon as possible, and so I parted, and to my office, where I met Sir W. Pen, and he desired a turn with me in the garden, where he told me the day now was fixed for his going into Ireland1 and that whereas I had mentioned some service he could do a friend of mine there, Saml. Pepys, he told me he would most readily do what I would command him, and then told me we must needs eat a dish of meat together before he went, and so invited me and my wife on Sunday next. To all which I did give a cold consent, for my heart cannot love or have a good opinion of him since his last playing the knave with me, but he took no notice of our difference at all, nor I to him, and so parted, and I by water to Deptford, where I found Sir W. Batten alone paying off the yard three quarters pay. Thence to dinner, where too great a one was prepared, at which I was very much troubled, and wished I had not been there. After dinner comes Sir J. Minnes and some captains with him, who had been at a Councill of Warr to- day, who tell us they have acquitted Captain Hall, who was accused of cowardice in letting of old Winter, the Argier pyrate, go away from him with a prize or two; and also Captain Diamond of the murder laid to him of a man that he had struck, but he lived many months after, till being drunk, he fell into the hold, and there broke his jaw and died, but they say there are such bawdy articles against him as never were heard of . … To the pay again, where I left them, and walked to Redriffe, and so home, and there came Mr. Creed and Shepley to me, and staid till night about my Lord’s accounts, our proceeding to set them in order, and so parted and I to bed. Mr. Holliard had been with my wife to-day, and cured her of her pain in her ear by taking out a most prodigious quantity of hard wax that had hardened itself in the bottom of the ear, of which I am very glad.

  1. Penn was Governor of Kinsale.-B.

40 Annotations

Todd Bernhardt   Link to this

Wow, what a day! A couple of questions:

"Hitherto I have been supported by the King and Chancellor against the Duke; but what if it should come about, that it should be the Duke and Chancellor against the King?"

I’m with Sam on this quote from Montagu: plain words, yet I do not fully understand it. It seems Montagu is assessing his alliances and preparing for the worst…?

Also, why is Sam “very much troubled” by the “too great” a dinner? Is it because the physique has not yet worked its magic?

Todd Bernhardt   Link to this

re: those pesky ellipses

Anyone with access to L&M care to connect the dots? Thanks.

dirk   Link to this

"as much his friend as his interest will let him"

Doesn't this phrase summarize neatly this day of intrigues?

JWB   Link to this

Dr. Dell:
" The Churches of Men, are still setting themselves one above another; but the Assemblies of the true Church are all equal..."

Miss Ann   Link to this

Poor Lizzie, thank goodness it was only a build up of wax in her ear. Mr Holliard would probably have used warm oil to extract the wax, I wonder if they ever heard of "ear candling", which is so popular nowadays?

Robert Gertz   Link to this

So much for Duke Jamie's desire to be schooled by Sandwich in the sea trade...

Sounds like the brothers Stuart are beginning to rid themselves of a minor problem.

Hmmn...Are those the same "old captains" dear old Edward was purging as fast as possible from his fleet at the time of Restoration? Old comrades beginning to seem useful again, Sandwich?

Cumgranissalis   Link to this

There was also another Samuell Pepis [No Ser #]MP for Berkshire ? see H of Commons records and then there be the clerk Sam Pepis clerk. involve in another law suit.

Stolzi   Link to this

The Earl's costume

As I remember my Shakespeare studies, a "nightgown" means a dressing-gown, a robe to wear about the house. Put on, then, by the Earl over his shirt, before bothering with his doublet or trousers.

I believe Pepys is stressing his intimacy with his patron.

Quite a day of office politics here!

Stolzi   Link to this

Todd's questions

"Hitherto I have been supported by the King and Chancellor against the Duke; but what if it should come about, that it should be the Duke and Chancellor against the King?"

Perhaps Montagu means that even if I should have the Duke and Chancellor on my side on a given question, is it a good idea to rely on that, if the King should be against me? Kings are Kings, you know!

Or, perhaps he is remembering that dreadful day not so many years ago at this point, when Parliament and a great part of the nation turned against a King and threw him out, and wondering what he should do if it came to that.

I too wondered about the “too great” dinner. Could it be for reasons of household economy that Sam disliked it?

Australian Susan   Link to this

The Great Dinner
I think if Sam was narked about wasteful housekeeping, we would have heard about his "high words" with Elizabeth on this matter. I go along with the still queasy tum idea. And he stays quiet about this as Elizabeth has gone to obviously much trouble and he can't just say no to it all, but wishes business had kept him away from home. Wonder if part of the meal was "ragout of sturgeon?" Ragouts were often used to conceal dubious meat.

Australian Susan   Link to this

What does Sandwich need a "pardon" for? And what has he to settle about his lands? Is he troubled by law suits as Sam is?

Pauline   Link to this

The Great Dinner
Dinner today seems to be taken at Deptford, where Batten is paying off the yard. After dinner Sam returns "to the pay again, where I left them, and walked to Redriffe, and so home".

Pauline   Link to this

"get clear of all debts to the King for the Embassy money, and then a pardon"
Is this the money that was stored in Sam's basement? Would the pardon be for usurping this money?

???

I take getting his land settled to mean his estate at Hinchingbrooke--finish his improvements, get it all working smooth and productively so that he has that wealth and security as a base, then to decide if he wants to continue his sea employment.

Australian Susan   Link to this

Yes, was confused about location of dinner. It's at Deptford. Like many a man before him, Sam finds himself faced with The Official Dinner when all he really wants is bread and cheese.
Still, I wonder if the sturgeon *will* make another appearance?
"Interesting ragout - quite a fishy flavour."
"Yes, Samuel, very fishy"

Douglas Robertson   Link to this

"re: those pesky ellipses"

From L&M:

"...such bawdy articles against him as never was heard of. one, that he should upon his knees drink the King and Queenes health at Lisbon, wishing that the King's pintle were in the Queenes cunt up to her heart, that it might cry 'Knack, knock' again."

Douglas Robertson   Link to this

"and then a pardon":

According to L&M, a tardily-sought general pardon for his service during the interregnum: "Sandwich, who had not troubled to take the free pardon offered at the Restoration..."

andy   Link to this

they design to set up Lawson as much as they can and that he do counterplot them by setting him up higher still; by which they will find themselves spoiled of their design, and at last grow jealous of Lawson.

Life on the greasy pole hasn't changed much, evidently!

When Sam

told my Lord of the late passage between Swan and me, and he told me another lately between Dr. Dell and himself

he isn't gossiping, of course, but networking ;>)

Pedro   Link to this

A summary from Ollard's Biography maybe of some help?

It was clear that the new regime, with the touchy and jealous exception of the Duke of York, was anxious to give Sandwich full scope and develop the navy that, in less than ten years, had raised England to the front rank of European powers. Monck was needed to control the army, and Penn the only other surviving General at Sea and with much longer and diverse experience of sea service than either, was firmly relegated to a subordinate position. He remained a potential threat to Sandwich's position, particularly should the Duke of York wish to override it. ..

Coventry (under whose spell Pepys himself was begging to fall) was anything but an ally of Sandwich. He was a friend and admirer of Sir William Penn and a bitter and long-standing enemy of Clarendon

James did all he could to play down Sandwich's success in his recent mission because he wished to replace him as the active Commander in any future war, he was ably seconded by Coventry.

On the 27th Pepys called on him -- From Pepys's point of view the rift between Coventry and Sandwich, to whom his own first loyalty lay, spelled disaster: for his own career, for Sandwich's, and for the sea service.

language hat   Link to this

Thanks, Pedro, that's extremely helpful.
What an entry! The plot thickens...

Red Robbo   Link to this

Radio Plug
This evening our favorite site was plugged as BBC Radio 2 "Website of the day" so we may find a whole new readership joining us, resulting also, perhaps, in some new contributers

Glyn   Link to this

Thanks Red Robbo! I suppose any newcomers should not be put off by the length of this entry - it is really quite exceptional.

Here's what BBC Radio 2 said about this site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/wright/wotd.s...

and if you click on the link for Tuesday at the top of the page, you'll be able to listen to what was said about this site.

I just hope we don't get a sequence of really dull entries now.

James   Link to this

Until now I have been but a lurker on this site. My thanks to all for a great time. Re-reading Pepys in "real time" is great fun, and your collective annotations make it even better. Keep up the good work! I write to draw your attention to an eBay auction of the first edition of Pepys. The auction title is "FIRST EDITION 1825 PEPYS MEMOIRS 2 VOLUMES ENGLISH HISTORY - MARITIME HISTORY - NAUTICAL." Starting bid is $975--out of my range. (BTW I am not the seller--I just noticed it while looking for a decent newer edition of Pepys-- and thought one of you might want to try for it.)

Clement   Link to this

"FIRST EDITION"
http://search.ebay.com/FIRST-EDITION-1825-PEPYS...

Thank you, James, for the opportunity to dream for 3 days, 3 hours and 4 minutes. I've updated my Christmas wish list though, just in case.

Pedro   Link to this

Portsmouth--Tribute to Nelson.

Well as Portsmouth is mentioned by Sam, and he, after all was a navy man, perhaps he would like to see todays celebrations?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4627453.stm

Australian Susan   Link to this

I also read the articles about the Trafalgar celebrations on the BBC website, thought of Sam, and noted that the UK, despite having slid from being an Imperial power last century, still has, with France, by far the largest navy in Europe. Sam's influence contributed to this and the notion that the RN is the "Senior Service".

Australian Susan   Link to this

The bawdy bit.
Although this is just a crude joke, it does indicate the popular desire that the King should father a legitimate son and quickly - popular society still held to the view that a reigning monarch should have at least a couple of sons ("an heir and a spare")to ensure stability and a smooth succession.

Glyn   Link to this

I think it's still the 3rd biggest in the world, after the USA and China. British ships there included the Enterprise and the Illustrious. The Anzac from Australia, the Saipan from the USA, and ships from dozens of other countries including most of the European navies.

JonTom Kittredge   Link to this

Succession
"Popular society still held to the view that a reigning monarch should have at least a couple of sons ... to ensure stability and a smooth succession."

Not unreasonable considering that the following century saw the wars of the Spanish and Austrian successions, respectively. Britain was spared that trauma (the revolution of 1688 was, famously, bloodless). Still British history might have been very different if Charles 2 had left behind a legitimate child to inherit.

Australian Susan   Link to this

Royal succession
A hundred years previously, the English Court had been similarly concerned at Elizabeth I's childlessness.
But then, you could also argue that the troubles and civil war of the century before that had been caused by Edward III having too many robust adult sons!

Todd Bernhardt   Link to this

re: Royal succession

"you could also argue that the troubles and civil war of the century before that had been caused by Edward III having too many robust adult sons!"

As you could argue that the troubles and civil wars of the 17th century were caused by Elizabeth's childlessness! After all, there were many who would have preferred that the Stuarts stayed in Scotland...

Australian Susan   Link to this

If Elizabeth I had married the Duke of Alencon/Anjou, the monarchy would have been too much dominated by France. If she had married a commoner (eg Dudley), that would have laid the way open for faction fighting amongst the nobles and the lowering of the standards of royalty. I think she did the right thing: James was the only possible successor - and this did away with cross-Border disputes. James's son Charles mismanagement of matters then caused problems.

Cumgranissalis   Link to this

1066 an all that Royal succession:childlessness ,'tis a problem.
Be it Eddy the brainwashed in Magyar who died just after landing in Dane Saxon land. Harry from a kissing relative, with his Viking[Norge] blood or that other ex-viking Willy who finally got the job of teaching the natives Norman French. Read the Bayeux Drapery [Tapestry]

Terry F.   Link to this

Cumgranissalis, turns out "This [other] Samuel Pepys (of Dublin[, whither Sir W. Penn is going]) was a parson -- the son of Sir Richard Pepys, Lord Chief Justice of Ireland (d. 1659), who was a first cousin of the diarist's father. He was now attempting to obtain some £5000-worth of soldiers’ debentures owed to his father, and on 8 August 1662 Ormond. the Lord Lieutenant, recommended his case to the Trustees of the Commissioned Officers: HMC, Ormonde, n.s., iii.21.” L&M note.

Terry Foreman   Link to this

In his embassy to Portugal in 1661 Sandwich had received not only the normal grant to an ambassador (£5000 in this case) but also some of the dowry money paid on the Queen's behalf. On 31 December 1662 he was allowed to keep the 24,000 crusados for which he stood accountable, 'in recompense of his charges'. (L&M note)

That could be envied!

Terry Foreman   Link to this

"Then, to get his land settled"

The grant of land of royal land from the King to support his earldom, was not completed until 1663. (L&M note)

This was NOT Hinchingbrooke, which had been Sandwich's father's estate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Montagu )

Terry Foreman   Link to this

"And here [My Lord] told me, how the terms at Argier were wholly his; and that he did plainly tell Lawson and agree with him, that [Lawson] would have the honour of them, if they should ever be agreed to; and that accordingly they did come over hither entitled, “Articles concluded on by Sir J. Lawson, according to instructions received from His Royal Highness James Duke of York, &c., and from His Excellency the Earle of Sandwich.” (Which however was more than needed; but Lawson tells my Lord in his letter, that it was not he, but the Council of Warr that would have “His Royal Highness” put into the title, though he did not contribute one word to it.) But the Duke of York did yesterday propose them to the Council, to be printed with this title: “Concluded on, by Sir J. Lawson, Knt.” and my Lord quite left out."

And also His Royal Highness James Duke of York was "quite left out" in the official printed version:

"Articles of peace between the most serene and mighty prince Charles II ... and the most excellent signors, Mahomet Bashaw, the Duan of the noble city of Tunis, Hagge Mustapha Dei, Morat Bei, and the rest of the souldiers in the kingdom of Tunis concluded by Sir John Lawson, Knight, the fifth of October 1662 ; published by His Majesties command. http://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo2/A32173.0001.0...

In the confirmation of 1664 the Duke of York's name was added to Lawson's. (L&M note)

Terry Foreman   Link to this

"This he told me with much pleasure."

Sandwich remained jealous of Lawson and of his influence with the Duke and Coventry:
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1664/12/12/ (L&M note)

Terry Foreman   Link to this

" My Lord did also tell me, that the Duke himself at Portsmouth did thank my Lord for all his pains and care; and that [the Duke] perceived it must be the old Captains that must do the business; and that the new ones would spoil all."

Penn and Coventry held a view opposed to that of Sandwich and Pepys in the contemporary version of the old controversy between the rival merits of tarpaulins and the gentleman-captains.

Pepys, in common with most naval administrators of his time, came to see that the admission of gentleman captains led to intolerable inefficiency. http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1661/06/04/#c53... (L&M note)

Terry Foreman   Link to this

"my heart cannot love or have a good opinion of him since his last playing the knave with me,"

When Sir W Penn had told the Navy Board the Comptroller (not the Clerk of the Acts) was the one to write contracts.
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1662/06/03/

bw   Link to this

"dinner .. too great": Who's paying? Probably the navy. Sam doesn't like the expected huge bill from the landlord?

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