Tuesday 3 March 1668
Up betimes to work again, and then met at the Office, where to our great business of this answer to the Parliament; where to my great vexation I find my Lord Brouncker prepared only to excuse himself, while I, that have least reason to trouble myself, am preparing with great pains to defend them all: and more, I perceive, he would lodge the beginning of discharging ships by ticket upon me; but I care not, for I believe I shall get more honour by it when the Parliament, against my will, shall see how the whole business of the Office was done by me. At noon rose and to dinner. My wife abroad with Mercer and Deb. buying of things, but I with my clerks home to dinner, and thence presently down with Lord Brouncker, W. Pen, T. Harvy, T. Middleton, and Mr. Tippets, who first took his place this day at the table, as a Commissioner, in the room of Commissioner Pett. Down by water to Deptford, where the King, Queene, and Court are to see launched the new ship built by Mr. Shish, called “The Charles.” God send her better luck than the former! Here some of our brethren, who went in a boat a little before my boat, did by appointment take opportunity of asking the King’s leave that we might make full use of the want of money, in our excuse to the Parliament for the business of tickets, and other things they will lay to our charge, all which arose from nothing else: and this the King did readily agree to, and did give us leave to make our full use of it. The ship being well launched, I back again by boat, setting [Sir] T. Middleton and Mr. Tippets on shore at Ratcliffe, I home and there to my chamber with Mr. Gibson, and late up till midnight preparing more things against our defence on Thursday next to my content, though vexed that all this trouble should be on me. So to supper and to bed.
17 Annotations
First Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
John Evelyn's Diary
3d March, 1668. Was launched at Deptford, that goodly vessel, "The Charles."
I was neere his Majesty. She is longer than the Sovereign, and carries 110 brass cannon; she was built by old Shish, a plaine, honest carpenter, master-builder of this dock, but one who can give very little account of his art by discourse, and is hardly capable of reading, yet of greate abilitie in his calling. The family have been ship carpenters in this yard above 300 years.
http://is.gd/fY5wB
Carl in Boston • Link
one who can give very little account of his art by discourse, and is hardly capable of reading, yet of greate abilitie in his calling
This is so common among performers: they can do their art, but can't teach it.
Todd Bernhardt • Link
"but I care not, for I believe I shall get more honour by it when the Parliament, against my will, shall see how the whole business of the Office was done by me."
Love it. You can almost sense him putting extra pressure on his pen as he writes this...
Robert Gertz • Link
I don't know Sam...
As you glory at the prospect of being seen as the true man in charge, remember the words of Ted Baxter to Mary Richards when she told him of her being "...responsible for every facet of this production."
"Gee and I thought I was the reason the show always stunk."
language hat • Link
Shish is an odd name, and I thought I would investigate it; it's in none of my surname references, and it's hard to search for online thanks to shish kebob/kabob, but I turned up this quote, from the Proceedings of the Huguenot Society of London, Vol. 23 (1982):
"John Shish is an unbelievable name over which I wasted much time taking it for granted it was a mis-spelling. Then to my shame I came across the great family of Shish—shipwrights to the Royal Navy for over a hundred years. I say 'to my shame' as the family occurs throughout Pepys' Diary and naval correspondence as well as in Evelyn's Diary, and any book connected with the Royal Navy in that era. Faced with such a curious choice of second name a researcher must pause to ask, 'what is the significance of such a name?' (this applies to any surname used as a Christian name before the mid-19th century). There could be two solutions, a marriage or perhaps a business connection. As neither Wagner nor I have yet traced the marriage of Peter it could well be that his wife Elizabeth was a Shish or a Shish by descent. However, the Shish family worked in Deptford and Woolwich, not far from the East India Company's headquarters, and the Customs Warehouses, and they lived in Greenwich, all areas with which the Tahourdins had connections; in addition, the Shish family had its business office in Mark Lane and the Tahourdins had theirs in Throgmorton street."
There doesn't seem to be any discussion of the origin of the name, which is what I'm really interested in.
Don O'Shea • Link
@ Carl in Boston
"This is so common among performers: they can do their art, but can’t teach it."
This may be true of performers, but in the case of artisans it is probably job protection. To some craftsman, teaching their craft is never done.
Once when I was visiting Kodak I heard of an old German optician who finished their high preformance lenses and was retiring within a year. He was asked to train a new employee to grind and polish lens surfaces. He agreed and proceeded to explain and demonstrate all of the processes, except when he got to the final finish. He would turn to the polisher, check the quality of the surfaces, then make some adjustments, but he would never tell the trainee what he was doing. Despite management requests, he just wouldn't/couldn't reveal his secrets.
Perhaps Shish was pronounced "Shush!"
Douglas Robertson • Link
"Shish is an odd name"...
...not to menation an inconvenient one for a shipwright: just try saying "Shish's ship" quickly even once.
A. De Araujo • Link
"[Sir] T. Middleton"
Could it be?related to Kate, that is.
Clement • Link
Shish a Scot's name?
Found this on a geneology message board:
"Shish, James
Bo'ness. Covenanter. Transported to America 16 August 1670.
(PC)
I am not related to this family, I am just passing on this information, which comes from a book titled " Scots Banished to the American Plantations" 1650-1775 by David Dobson. Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc. 1983. pg. 198.
Joyce"
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnam…
--accessed 6 March, 2011
Bo'ness, or "Borrowstounness" is a port town, on the Firth of Forth.
Second Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"Down by water to Deptford, where the King, Queene, and Court are to see launched the new ship built by Mr. Shish, called “The Charles.” God send her better luck than the former!"
L&M: The new ship (a 1st-rate) was built to replace the Royal Charles captured by the Dutch in 1667. The launch is mentioned in London Gazette, 5 March, where the ship is called Charles the Secone.
San Diego Sarah • Link
Pepys' preparation and consultation must be done at the same time as the business as usual. This morning's mail probably contained:
March 2. 1668
Drury Lane.
John Fenn to the Navy Commissioners.
[John Fenn was Paymaster to the Navy Treasurer, 1660-1668.
In 1667-68 that was Arthur Annesley, 1st Earl of Anglesey.]
Lord Anglesey, in his solicitations of the Lords of the Treasury for the two sums of 5,000l., has laid before them the ill consequences of the loss of your and his own credit by the failure of it.
He has this day hopes of the latter 5,000l., that is of about 3,000l., but very little of the first; therefore you should remind their Lordships of the 25,000l. customs;
you may dispose of 10,000l. this week for the yards, though the Lords are willing enough you should borrow of it to pay the growing charge, which is already done in discharging the Castle frigate.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 235, No. 186.]
Now we know where Fenn's office is located.
March 2. 1668
Chatham Dock.
Phin. Pett, master shipwright, to the Navy Commissioners.
Has received their inquiry as to what ships can soonest be fitted for sea;
the Royal Katherine and 8 others will be ready in 6 weeks, if he is supplied with provisions, of which he is so bare that he cannot employ the men.
Other ships are very much out of repair, and will require a considerable time.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 235, No. 187.]
March 2. 1668
Woolwich.
Christopher Pett to the Navy Commissioners.
Particulars of the repair of ships.
The calking will be very much behind unless the men at work in the river be forced to come down to their duty, or he be empowered by press warrants to fetch in others.
If he may have men and materials, the ships may be ready in a month.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 235, No. 184.]
March 2. 1668
Deptford.
J. Uthwat, Clerk of the Survey, to the Navy Commissioners.
Mr. Browne's books will not answer for the issues of Harwich stores; they begin in May 1666, and the account is ordered from Sept. 1664.
The issues from the storekeeper's books will be more proper to collect the account from than those of the Clerk of the Survey, as the former give account of the whole issues, the latter only of one branch.
[S.P. Dom., Car. II. 235, No. 185.]
Business as usual drones on and on ... Fenn's 10,000/. won't go far.
'Charles II: March 1668', in Calendar of State Papers Domestic: Charles II, 1667-8, ed. Mary Anne Everett Green (London, 1893), pp. 262-320. British History Online
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…
Batch • Link
Clement, thanks for the genealogical info on the Shish name and that Scot's fate of "transportation," i.e., he was deported to America.
San Diego Sarah • Link
Hi Batch ... did you click through to the encyclopedia page for Jonas Shish? We've had discussions about the origins of his name before.
San Diego Sarah • Link
"My wife abroad with Mercer and Deb. buying of things, ..."
The payoff for agreeing to go to Brampton for a month or two? Good for you, Elizabeth. This may include a wedding present for Pall? Or returning all the stuff she'd bought for the wedding reception? But it's good to see Pepys not going nuts again about spending money.
Stephane Chenard • Link
Confirming some of this Society's discussion of 2006 re. Master Shish, https://www.namespedia.com/detail…, one of the multitude of genealogical websites now at our disposal, finds a prevalence of Shishes in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. None survives in England, so it seems not an indigenous name. Emigration to Russia seems unlikely (though Peter the Great did go shopping for European tradesmen a century after Sam), so Eastern Europe may be where their roots are. One can imagine the family having started in shipbuilding as the Hanseatic League was in bloom, and made their way to England as one declined and the other's naval power grew.
Stephane Chenard • Link
And today Sam will likely have received a letter from Mr Sherburne of the Ordnance Office (we assume that interoffice stuff within London was couriered on the day). It reports on storing ordnance at Chatham Dock and isn't particularly noteworthy except where the writer asks for the goods to be put under guard, as (you know what these docks are like), they are...
"liable to be damnified by embezzlements".
Huzzah for 17th century convoluted business lingo! Now, our highly literate Sam doesn't write like that, so we wonder if he also smiled at the turn of phrase. But we should challenge ourselves to use, at least once a year, "damnified by embezzlements" in conversation. Our excuse in this case would be State Paper No. 211, at https://play.google.com/books/rea….
Tonyel • Link
This may be true of performers, but in the case of artisans it is probably job protection. To some craftsman, teaching their craft is never done.
That reminds me of an Irishman I knew, talking about having taken his son-in-law into his business: "I've taught him everything he knows - but not everything I know."