In 1667, John Vaughan MP was a bencher at the Inner Temple, and I think he was one of 22 Fire Court judges responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London, after the Great Fire of 1666. In 1668 he was promoted to be Chief Justice for the Court of Common Pleas. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at https://www.historyofparliamenton…
Solicitor-general to James, Duke of York, Sir Edward Turnour MP was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at https://www.historyofparliamenton…
Solicitor-general to James, Duke of York, Sir Edward Thurland MP was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at https://www.historyofparliamenton…
As a Baron of the Exchequer in 1667, Sir Richard Rainsford was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. His reputation for being fair about land settlements came from a year in Ireland working on fair judgments there. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at https://www.historyofparliamenton…
Francis North was a young but highly-regarded lawyer in 1667, appointed King's Council in 1668, and was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at https://www.historyofparliamenton…
Justice of the King's Bench, Sir William Morton MP was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at https://www.historyofparliamenton…
Chief Justice of the King's Bench, Sir John Kelyng MP was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at https://www.historyofparliamenton…
Lord chief baron of the exchequer and attorney of great note, Sir Matthew Hale MP was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at https://www.historyofparliamenton…
A Heneage Finch was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. As you can see from the above, he was the Solicitor General at the time, and therefore a likely candidate, but there were at least 3 men of this name.
The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at https://www.historyofparliamenton…
William Ellis MP was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. The process lasted 10 years, and the judges to their great credit refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at https://www.historyofparliamenton…
Lord Keeper and in 1667 Lord Chief Justice Sir Orlando Bridgeman was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. The process lasted 10 years, and the judges to their great credit refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
"What is Pepys' problem?" My apologies, Pepys ... I forgot that you clarified later that Sandwich needs 200/. over and above Creed's 150/. That would be a whole lot of silver plate.
"So, finding that Creed hath supplied them with 150l. in their straits, and that this is no bigger sum, I am very willing to serve my Lord, though not in this kind; but yet I will endeavour to get this done for them, and the rather because of some plate that was lodged the other day with me, by my Lady’s order, which may be in part of security for my money, as I may order it, for, for ought I see, there is no other to be hoped for. This do trouble me; but yet it is good luck that the sum is no bigger."
As I understand this, Lady Sandwich is in dire straights for want of 200/. Creed uncharacteristically ponied up 150/., so Pepys only need find 50/. For unspecified reasons, Lady Sandwich had asked Pepys to take care of some silver for her recently, so if they default on the loan, he can keep the silver.
What is Pepys' problem? He is as mean as a dog in a manger sometimes. Perhaps he's worried about it becoming the beginning of on-going string of requests. I think he's made his point adequately ... now pony up, Pepys. (If you don't, you can never tell them when you buy that coach and horse next year.)
And they are going to ask you for loans anyways. Get used to it.
"there is a great many pretty considerations in it that makes it necessary for me to be silent yet for a while till we see whether the ship be safe or no; for she is drove to the coast of Holland, where she now is in the Texell, so that it is not prudence for me yet to resolve whether I will stand by the bargain or no,"
Pepys writing style got me again ... I was thinking Lady Elizabeth Turner Woodstocke Batten had been driven into the Texel, but then I realized it was the Flying Greyhound that had taken safe harbor from a winter storm. If the ship doesn't make it home, the question of a sale is probably mute.
"The lack of swimming in Europe during the Middle Ages is explained by some authorities as having been caused by a fear that swimming spread infection and caused epidemics.
"There is some evidence of swimming at seashore resorts of Great Britain in the late 17th century, evidently in conjunction with water therapy.
"Not until the 19th century did the popularity of swimming as both recreation and sport begin in earnest."
In places like Japan and the Pacific Islands they were swimming (and surfing?) all the time ... British sailors must have seen them, and curious sailors investigated. https://www.britannica.com/sports…
I have read the same thing about sailors and swimming. I do not doubt that the generality is correct. However, I suspect it also depended on where people grew up, and whether swimming techniques were known in the family.
For instance, a teenage Cloudseley Shovell served in the second Anglo-Dutch war on board the Royal Prince, and there is a family tradition that he swam between ships with their orders in his mouth. I know of no other examples of swimming,
The British Library has a site devoted to Restoration documents ... worth poking around, which I have yet to do, so this is not a revue: https://www.bl.uk/restoration-18t…
A belated answer to Oliver Mundy. I Googled "Deborah Egmond 1679" and this came up:
https://www.google.com/books/edit… Page 157 – Information sworn by Deborah Egmont alias Netherway, at The Hague 19 August 1680 against Col. John Scott, attested by P. Fontayne and P. Lorrain, Dutch and Engl. ff 148 -160.
So I Googled "Deborah Egmond 1680" and found a lengthy account of Pepys' investigation into Col. John Scott. https://electricscotland.com/webc…
This leads me to believe it is more likely the letter was written in January 1679/80 and not 10 years later.
I haven't read the long article because I'm not ready to tackle the Popish Plot yet.
What have you found out since last July? This was good mental activity for a pandemic.
The Fire of London Disputes Act 1666 was an Act of the Parliament of England (18 & 19 Cha. II c. 7) with the long title "An Act for erecting a Judicature for Determination of Differences touching Houses burned or demolished by reason of the late Fire which happened in London."
Following the Great Fire of London, Parliament established a court to settle all differences arising between landlords and tenants of burnt buildings, overseen by judges of the King's Bench, Court of Common Pleas and Court of Exchequer.
The 22 judges who served under the act included the following; I find it interesting that none of the biographies I cite mention the Fire Court, but they do say these men were actively judges at the time, so I am guessing they are the right men:
Sir John Kelynge, on 21 November, 1665, was elevated to the office of chief justice of the King's Bench.
He played a prominent role in events after the Great Fire in September, 1666 by presiding over the trial of the innocent but insane Frenchman, Robert Hubert, who confessed to setting the fire in the King's Bakehouse in Pudding Lane. Hubert was duly found guilty by the jury and executed by order of Kelynge, although Kelynge told Charles II that he did not believe a word of his confession.
Chief Justice Kelyng later led a commission to examine numerous other witnesses and concluded that the fire was started by accident and was so calamitous because of a number of circumstances, including the strong easterly winds.
Chief Justice Kelyng was also appointed one of the 22 "Fire Judges" to resolve disputes arising from the destruction caused by the Great Fire.
Comments
Second Reading
About John Vaughan (MP Cardiganshire)
San Diego Sarah • Link
In 1667, John Vaughan MP was a bencher at the Inner Temple, and I think he was one of 22 Fire Court judges responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London, after the Great Fire of 1666. In 1668 he was promoted to be Chief Justice for the Court of Common Pleas. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at
https://www.historyofparliamenton…
About Sir Edward Turnour (Speaker of the House of Commons)
San Diego Sarah • Link
Solicitor-general to James, Duke of York, Sir Edward Turnour MP was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at
https://www.historyofparliamenton…
About Edward Thurland
San Diego Sarah • Link
Solicitor-general to James, Duke of York, Sir Edward Thurland MP was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at
https://www.historyofparliamenton…
About Sir Richard Rainsford (Baron of the Exchequer and President of the Court of Claims, Dublin 1663)
San Diego Sarah • Link
As a Baron of the Exchequer in 1667, Sir Richard Rainsford was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. His reputation for being fair about land settlements came from a year in Ireland working on fair judgments there. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at
https://www.historyofparliamenton…
About Francis North
San Diego Sarah • Link
Francis North was a young but highly-regarded lawyer in 1667, appointed King's Council in 1668, and was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at
https://www.historyofparliamenton…
About Sir William Morton
San Diego Sarah • Link
Justice of the King's Bench, Sir William Morton MP was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at
https://www.historyofparliamenton…
About Sir John Kelyng (Lord Chief Justice 1665-71)
San Diego Sarah • Link
Chief Justice of the King's Bench, Sir John Kelyng MP was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at
https://www.historyofparliamenton…
About Sir Matthew Hale (Chief Baron of the Exchequer)
San Diego Sarah • Link
Lord chief baron of the exchequer and attorney of great note, Sir Matthew Hale MP was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. after the Great Fire of 1666. The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at
https://www.historyofparliamenton…
About Sir Heneage Finch (Solicitor-General)
San Diego Sarah • Link
A Heneage Finch was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. As you can see from the above, he was the Solicitor General at the time, and therefore a likely candidate, but there were at least 3 men of this name.
The Fire Court process lasted 10 years, and the judges -- to their great credit -- refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at
https://www.historyofparliamenton…
About William Ellis
San Diego Sarah • Link
William Ellis MP was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. The process lasted 10 years, and the judges to their great credit refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… for the Fire Courts, and his Parliamentary bio at
https://www.historyofparliamenton…
About Sir Orlando Bridgeman (Lord Keeper, 1667-1672)
San Diego Sarah • Link
Lord Keeper and in 1667 Lord Chief Justice Sir Orlando Bridgeman was one of 22 Fire Court judges, responsible for sorting out the legal entanglements for the rebuilding of London. The process lasted 10 years, and the judges to their great credit refused all fees. Because of their work, London was largely rebuilt in that time. For more info., see
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
About Friday 13 December 1667
San Diego Sarah • Link
"What is Pepys' problem?"
My apologies, Pepys ... I forgot that you clarified later that Sandwich needs 200/. over and above Creed's 150/. That would be a whole lot of silver plate.
About Friday 13 December 1667
San Diego Sarah • Link
"So, finding that Creed hath supplied them with 150l. in their straits, and that this is no bigger sum, I am very willing to serve my Lord, though not in this kind; but yet I will endeavour to get this done for them, and the rather because of some plate that was lodged the other day with me, by my Lady’s order, which may be in part of security for my money, as I may order it, for, for ought I see, there is no other to be hoped for. This do trouble me; but yet it is good luck that the sum is no bigger."
As I understand this, Lady Sandwich is in dire straights for want of 200/. Creed uncharacteristically ponied up 150/., so Pepys only need find 50/. For unspecified reasons, Lady Sandwich had asked Pepys to take care of some silver for her recently, so if they default on the loan, he can keep the silver.
What is Pepys' problem? He is as mean as a dog in a manger sometimes. Perhaps he's worried about it becoming the beginning of on-going string of requests. I think he's made his point adequately ... now pony up, Pepys. (If you don't, you can never tell them when you buy that coach and horse next year.)
And they are going to ask you for loans anyways. Get used to it.
About Friday 13 December 1667
San Diego Sarah • Link
"there is a great many pretty considerations in it that makes it necessary for me to be silent yet for a while till we see whether the ship be safe or no; for she is drove to the coast of Holland, where she now is in the Texell, so that it is not prudence for me yet to resolve whether I will stand by the bargain or no,"
Pepys writing style got me again ... I was thinking Lady Elizabeth Turner Woodstocke Batten had been driven into the Texel, but then I realized it was the Flying Greyhound that had taken safe harbor from a winter storm. If the ship doesn't make it home, the question of a sale is probably mute.
About Tuesday 11 December 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
"The lack of swimming in Europe during the Middle Ages is explained by some authorities as having been caused by a fear that swimming spread infection and caused epidemics.
"There is some evidence of swimming at seashore resorts of Great Britain in the late 17th century, evidently in conjunction with water therapy.
"Not until the 19th century did the popularity of swimming as both recreation and sport begin in earnest."
In places like Japan and the Pacific Islands they were swimming (and surfing?) all the time ... British sailors must have seen them, and curious sailors investigated.
https://www.britannica.com/sports…
About Tuesday 11 December 1660
San Diego Sarah • Link
I have read the same thing about sailors and swimming. I do not doubt that the generality is correct. However, I suspect it also depended on where people grew up, and whether swimming techniques were known in the family.
For instance, a teenage Cloudseley Shovell served in the second Anglo-Dutch war on board the Royal Prince, and there is a family tradition that he swam between ships with their orders in his mouth. I know of no other examples of swimming,
https://www.historytoday.com/arch…
About Dictionaries
San Diego Sarah • Link
The British Library has a site devoted to Restoration documents ... worth poking around, which I have yet to do, so this is not a revue:
https://www.bl.uk/restoration-18t…
About The Plot Against Pepys
San Diego Sarah • Link
A belated answer to Oliver Mundy. I Googled "Deborah Egmond 1679" and this came up:
https://www.google.com/books/edit…
Page 157 – Information sworn by Deborah Egmont alias Netherway, at The Hague 19 August 1680 against Col. John Scott, attested by P. Fontayne and P. Lorrain, Dutch and Engl. ff 148 -160.
So I Googled "Deborah Egmond 1680" and found a lengthy account of Pepys' investigation into Col. John Scott.
https://electricscotland.com/webc…
This leads me to believe it is more likely the letter was written in January 1679/80 and not 10 years later.
I haven't read the long article because I'm not ready to tackle the Popish Plot yet.
What have you found out since last July? This was good mental activity for a pandemic.
About Monday 5 November 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
A list of the Fire Court Judges:
The Fire of London Disputes Act 1666 was an Act of the Parliament of England (18 & 19 Cha. II c. 7) with the long title "An Act for erecting a Judicature for Determination of Differences touching Houses burned or demolished by reason of the late Fire which happened in London."
Following the Great Fire of London, Parliament established a court to settle all differences arising between landlords and tenants of burnt buildings, overseen by judges of the King's Bench, Court of Common Pleas and Court of Exchequer.
The 22 judges who served under the act included the following; I find it interesting that none of the biographies I cite mention the Fire Court, but they do say these men were actively judges at the time, so I am guessing they are the right men:
Sir John Archer
Sir Robert Atkyns MP - https://www.historyofparliamenton…
Sir Edward Atkins
Sir Orlando Bridgeman - https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Sir Samuel Brown
Sir William Ellys - https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Sir Heneage Finch - https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Sir Matthew Hale - https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Sir John Kelyng - https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Sir Timothy Littleton
Sir William Morton - https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Sir Francis North - https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Sir Richard Rainsford - https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Sir Edward Thurland - https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Sir Christopher Turnor
Sir Edward Turnour MP - https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Sir Thomas Twisden MP - https://www.historyofparliamenton…
Sir Thomas Tyrrell
Sir John Vaughan MP - https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Sir William Wilde - https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
Sir Hugh Wyndham
Sir Wadham Wyndham
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fir…
About Monday 5 November 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
Another Fire Court judge:
Sir John Kelynge, on 21 November, 1665, was elevated to the office of chief justice of the King's Bench.
He played a prominent role in events after the Great Fire in September, 1666 by presiding over the trial of the innocent but insane Frenchman, Robert Hubert, who confessed to setting the fire in the King's Bakehouse in Pudding Lane. Hubert was duly found guilty by the jury and executed by order of Kelynge, although Kelynge told Charles II that he did not believe a word of his confession.
Chief Justice Kelyng later led a commission to examine numerous other witnesses and concluded that the fire was started by accident and was so calamitous because of a number of circumstances, including the strong easterly winds.
Chief Justice Kelyng was also appointed one of the 22 "Fire Judges" to resolve disputes arising from the destruction caused by the Great Fire.
for more on unpleasant Justice Kelyng https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…