Wednesday 18 July 1666

Up in good case, and so by coach to St. James’s after my fellows, and there did our business, which is mostly every day to complain of want of money, and that only will undo us in a little time. Here, among other things, before us all, the Duke of Yorke did say, that now at length he is come to a sure knowledge that the Dutch did lose in the late engagements twenty-nine captains and thirteen ships. Upon which Sir W. Coventry did publickly move, that if his Royal Highness had this of a certainty, it would be of use to send this down to the fleete, and to cause it to be spread about the fleete, for the recovering of the spirits of the officers and seamen; who are under great dejectedness for want of knowing that they did do any thing against the enemy, notwithstanding all that they did to us. Which, though it be true, yet methought was one of the most dishonourable motions to our countrymen that ever was made; and is worth remembering. Thence with Sir W. Pen home, calling at Lilly’s, to have a time appointed when to be drawn among the other Commanders of Flags the last year’s fight. And so full of work Lilly is, that he was fain to take his table-book out to see how his time is appointed, and appointed six days hence for him to come between seven and eight in the morning. Thence with him home; and there by appointment I find Dr. Fuller, now Bishop of Limericke, in Ireland; whom I knew in his low condition at Twittenham. I had also by his desire Sir W. Pen, and with him his lady and daughter, and had a good dinner, and find the Bishop the same good man as ever; and in a word, kind to us, and, methinks, one of the comeliest and most becoming prelates in all respects that ever I saw in my life. During dinner comes an acquaintance of his, Sir Thomas Littleton; whom I knew not while he was in my house, but liked his discourse; and afterwards, by Sir W. Pen, do come to know that he is one of the greatest speakers in the House of Commons, and the usual second to the great Vaughan. So was sorry I did observe him no more, and gain more of his acquaintance. After dinner, they being gone, and I mightily pleased with my guests, I down the river to Greenwich, about business, and thence walked to Woolwich, reading “The Rivall Ladys” all the way, and find it a most pleasant and fine writ play. At Woolwich saw Mr. Shelden, it being late, and there eat and drank, being kindly used by him and Bab, and so by water to Deptford, it being 10 o’clock before I got to Deptford, and dark, and there to Bagwell’s, and, having staid there a while, away home, and after supper to bed. The Duke of Yorke said this day that by the letters from the Generals they would sail with the Fleete this day or to-morrow.

21 Annotations

Terry Foreman   Link to this

The Royal Society today at Gresham College — from the Hooke Folio Online

IIuly. 18. 1666. (Sr. R Moray pes: Ores, figurd stones, also 96 Roman Brasse medalls) these were deliuerd to the Keeper of the Repository mr Hooke (also a wasp nest)

Ld Sanwiches Letter. Orderd ____ & that Dr. Pope & mr Hooke should ioyne in making obseruations answerable to those intended to be made in Spain

(antelope skin) corroded glasse) oat ale. vitriolate spring strongest in September)

There was tryed an expt. wth. Sal Armon: & salt peter to see which of the two had the greatest force to cool. the expt. not being orderd as it should be. The Curator [ Hooke ] was charged to Lett it be made at the next meeting wth. both the salts putt into an aequall quantity of water, in the same vessell obseruing the same time with both.

The circular pendulum applyed to a clock being inquired after the pt. affirmed that he had made tryall of one. and obserued the motion of it for 4 dayes. in which time it had gone soe aequally wth. his pendulum Clock that after those 4 dayes were elapsed he found it only to haue gone one minute too fast.
The Expt. wth. the pendulum and two balls, not yet succeeding it was Referred till next day when also the expt. shewing that a circular pendulum is the same wth. two pendulum crossing one another was orderd to be made.

http://webapps.qmul.ac.uk/cell/Hooke/hooke_foli...

Paul Chapin   Link to this

Terry, thanks once again for the extract from the Hooke folio. I always read those closely, with great interest.

I wonder if we have any further information about Lord Sandwich's letter from Spain, and what the observations were that were to be made jointly in Spain and England.

Jesse   Link to this

"Sir W. Pen ... calling at Lilly’s"

I'm guessing this is it http://tinyurl.com/wpFlagLely . Great series of portraits.

Terry Foreman   Link to this

Paul, The observations were that were to be made jointly in Spain and England seem to have to do with this:

"While [Sandwich] was in Spain he sent to the society a paper of observations upon an eclipse of the moon, and received the thanks of his colleagues. He also wrote upon a solar eclipse, he corrected the accepted latitude of Madrid, and added some notes upon the immersion [emergence?] of the satellites of Jupiter."

Full text of "The life of Edward Montagu, first Earl of Sandwich, 1625-1672" - 232 THE PLANTATIONS [CHAP, xiv http://snipurl.com/nicpi

Terry Foreman   Link to this

February 11. 1666. PHILOSOPHICAL TRANSACTIONS of the Royal Society

An Account of some Observations, lately made in Spain, by His Excellency the Earl of Sandwich.

The Right Honourable the Earl of Sandwich, as he appears eminent in discharging the Trust, his Majesty hath reposed in him, of Ambassador Extraordinary to the King of Spain; so he forgets not in the midst of that Employment, that he is a Member of the Royal Society; but does from time to time, when his weighty State-Negotiations do permit, imploy himself in making considerable Observations of divers kinds, both Astronomical and Physiological; and communicateth the same to the said Society; as for instance, lately, what he has observ'd concerning the Solar Eclipse in June last, the Suns height in the Solstice, and also the Latitude of Madrid, esteeming by the Suns Altitude in the Solstice, and by other Meridian Altitudes, the Latitude of Madrid to be 40 deg. 10 min; which differs considerably from that assigned by others; the General Chart of Europe giving to it 41 deg. 30 min. the General Map of Spain, 40 deg. 27 min. A large Provincial Map of Castile, 40 deg. 38 min.

To these particulars, and others formerly imparted, his Excellency is making more of the same nature; and particularly those of the Immersion of the Satellites of Jupiter.

We must not omit mentioning here, what he hath observed of Halo's about the Moon; which he relates in these words;

Decemb. 25. Old Style, 1666. [sic] In the Evening, here (vid. at Madrid) was a great Halo about the Moon, the Semidiameter whereof was about 23 deg. 30 min. Aldebaran was just in the North-east part of the Circle, and the two Horns of Aries just enclosed by the South-west of the Circle, the Moon being in the Center. I note this the rather (saith he) because five or six years ago, vid. Novemb. 21. Old Style, 1661. an hour after Sun-set, I saw a great Halo about the Moon of the same Semidiameter, {391}at Tangier, the Moon being very near the same place, where she was now. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/28758/28758-h/28...

Ruben   Link to this

"he has observ’d ...the Latitude of Madrid to be 40 deg. 10 min; which differs considerably from that assigned by others; the General Chart of Europe giving to it 41 deg. 30 min. the General Map of Spain, 40 deg. 27 min. A large Provincial Map of Castile, 40 deg. 38 min."
In our days Wikipedia's coordinates are: 40 deg.24'N.
Not bad for an amateur.

Michael Robinson   Link to this

“Sir W. Pen … calling at Lilly’s”

Jesse's link does not work for me; assuming this is his guess, he is quite correct: -

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/explore/object...

JWB   Link to this

"...Sal Armon: & salt peter to see which of the two had the greatest force to cool."

Repair to your "CRC Handbook of Chem. & Physics" where you'll find that Berthelot, I think it was he, or more likely his nameless grad student, amassed all that calorimetry data in 19th C. KNO3's heat of solution is about twice as endothermic as ammonium chloride, but with near twice its molecular weight, equal weights in equal amounts of water will lower the temp about the same(35/28), advantage saltpeter.

andy   Link to this

And so full of work Lilly is, that he was fain to take his table-book out to see how his time is appointed, and appointed six days hence for him to come between seven and eight in the morning

In Russia this year my tutor (who is now retired) commented on her experience working in a european political office where she observed how we were obsessed with organising our diaries like this. Now we use pda's.

Bradford   Link to this

Is there any record of Pepys himself using a "table-book" (interesting designation), as he continues to Rise?

language hat   Link to this

"Which, though it be true, yet methought was one of the most dishonourable motions to our countrymen that ever was made"

Does anybody know what he means by this? Letting the fleet know that the Dutch lost twenty-nine captains and thirteen ships seemed quite sensible to me.

cgs   Link to this

I wonder how Samuel viewed this quote from the Prologue:

" All who (like him) have writ ill plays before, For they, like thieves, condemned, are hangman made, To execute the members of their trade. "

cgs   Link to this

"...with Sir W. Pen home, calling at Lilly’s, to have a time appointed when to be drawn among the other Commanders of Flags the last year’s fight..."

have found young Penn:

painting of W. Penn jr.[aged 22yrs] by Lilly
http://www.americaslibrary.gov/jb/colonial/jb_c...

Jesse   Link to this

Penn's portrait.

The link didn't work because I forgot to leave a space before adding the end of sentence period. Same portrait though. Thanks for pointing this out.

Terry Foreman   Link to this

“Which, though it be true, yet methought was one of the most dishonourable motions to our countrymen that ever was made”

Might Pepys have been referring to the very (apparent) necessity of it? Why/how did "our countrymen" NOT know that damage had been inflicted on the enemy?

(I'm not satisfied with this, language hat, but....)

A. Hamilton   Link to this

LH, I agree. A head scratcher.

Paul Chapin   Link to this

LH, I interpreted that passage to mean that Sam thought it was a slander on the officers and men of the Navy to suggest that they might ever have low morale for any reason - what in a later age would be called defeatism. Not a very sensible comment for him to make, I admit, so I may be wrong.

Australian Susan   Link to this

Re LH's comment. I took this to mean that Sam thought Coventry ought not to have mentioned this low morale in a public forum where it would be minuted. Maybe Coventry is playing some political game against the Duke and trying to point-score. Good to observe that Sam is supportive and protective of the Navy personnel. But he didn't join in this debate. Not prepared to be seen to criticise his patron, maybe.

language hat   Link to this

Well, there's a considerable gap between "something that perhaps should not have been brought up in public" and "one of the most dishonourable motions to our countrymen that ever was made"... but that's our Sam, everything is the best/worst thing he's ever seen.

Harvey   Link to this

"... he has observ’d …the Latitude of Madrid to be 40 deg. 10 min ... the General Chart of Europe giving to it 41 deg. 30 min. the General Map of Spain, 40 deg. 27 min. A large Provincial Map of Castile, 40 deg. 38 min. In our days Wikipedia’s coordinates are: 40 deg.24’N..."

This matters as one minute of latitude is one nautical mile, so someone expecting to find it at 4038 would be 14 nautical miles away from its now known position at 4024. This would take 3 1/2 hours sailing to correct for a ship doing 4 knots. Plenty of time for the reception committee to observe and prepare.

So this is strategically important information.

cgs   Link to this

Thanks for mileage, easier to comprehend [6 hrs walk]

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