Tuesday 20 December 1664

Up and walked to Deptford, where after doing something at the yard I walked, without being observed, with Bagwell home to his house, and there was very kindly used, and the poor people did get a dinner for me in their fashion, of which I also eat very well. After dinner I found occasion of sending him abroad, and then alone ‘avec elle je tentais a faire ce que je voudrais et contre sa force je le faisais biens que passe a mon contentment’. By and by he coming back again I took leave and walked home, and then there to dinner, where Dr. Fayrebrother come to see me and Luellin. We dined, and I to the office, leaving them, where we sat all the afternoon, and I late at the office. To supper and to the office again very late, then home to bed.

30 Annotations

Patricia   Link to this

Mary, re your annotation of yesterday: are you psychic, or a sharp student of human nature (or did you read ahead?)

Does this say he tried it on, she resisted, but he got his way anyhow? Quel cad!

Ding   Link to this

avec elle je tentais a faire ce que je voudrais et contre sa force je le faisais biens que passe a mon contentment’

I attempted to do what I wished with her, against her resistance, and I did it well, much to my content.

He beats up the wife one day and has it off with Bagwell's the next. Lovely.

A. De Araujo   Link to this

"et contre sa force je le faisais bien"
Technically that is rape.Mike Tyson spent years in jail under the same circumstances.

cape henry   Link to this

"...much to my content." Very much to my disgust.

Robert Gertz   Link to this

Just one more proof of why we need laws to protect the defenseless from the powerful. Put Sam in fear of losing his job or severe punishment and watch how fast he becomes a model citizen.

Still, kudos to the man for his honesty...He could easily have kept all of this out for sake of his future rep. Many who claim lives of blameless virtue would show far worse in their closets if exposed.

Would be interesting if Sandwich pursued Bess...Watching Sam grovel and temporize on a scale that would make Bagwell look heroically defiant.

"My Lord, it is not, my Lord knows, that I object in any way to your current friendship towards my wife...For which we both give the heartiest thanks, my Lord, and bless God for your kind disposition to us both. No, it would rather be both my duty and honor towards your Lordship, as every bit of bread I eat reminds me, to allow your Lordship to dispose of myself, family, and all things I have as your own, even if it were that your Lordship...Which I do not for a moment believe, it being merely the low gossip of the world...Held an unordinary affection for my wife. And yet, sir...Such is the esteem in which I hold your Lordship's honor and if I may dare to say, the affection in which I hold your Lordship's family, that I feel I must venture without regard for my own position to bring to your Lordship's attention those idle rumors which seem to be accumulating about your Lordship, in terms of your relationship (an affectionate cousinly regard, I know all too well, my Lord) with my wife..."

Michael Robinson   Link to this

'... avec elle je tentais a faire ce que je voudrais et contre sa force je le faisais biens que passe a mon contentment ...’

"A THIRD offence, againft the female ... is the crime of rape, raptus mulierum, or the carnal knowlege of a woman forcibly and againft her will. ... I WILL not act fo difagreeable part, to my readers as well as myfelf, as to dwell any longer upon a fubject, the very mention of which is a difgrace to human nature.

THIS the voice of nature and of reafon, and the exprefs law of God, determine to be capital. ... And our antient law in fome degree imitated this punifhment, by commanding fuch mifcreants to be burnt to deathn ; though Fletao fays they fhould be buried alive: either of which punifhments was indifferently ufed for this crime among the antient Goths. But now the general punifhment of all felonies is the fame, namely, by hanging: and this offence (being in the times of popery only fubject ot ecclefiaftical cenfures) was made fingle felony by the ftatute 25 Hen. VIII. c. 6. and felony without benefit of clergy by ftatute 5 Eliz. c. 17."

Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England
Book the Fourth - Chapter the Fifteenth : Of Offences Against the Persons of Individuals
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/blackstone/bk...

Robert Gertz   Link to this

Interesting that Sam makes no comment on Bagwell...One would think if the poor fellow were totally in the dark, Sam would chortle heartily about his ignorant stupidity. Perhaps the truth is Sam prefers not to admit that he's aware he's being played by a clever young schemer. It's increasingly difficult to believe the man has no idea as to what is going on...

As always that has nothing to do with Mrs. Bagwell's victimization...Whether she and her husband are actively planning a campaign or no in their dealings with Pepys, she is being abused by a man who's let his position and petty power go to his head.

Miss Ann   Link to this

This beggars belief! I know we are looking at this situation with current morals, beliefs, etc., (and thank those who went before that we have all had our current horrified reactions - men and women alike), but maybe Sam has no real conscious about using women in this way. He has a track record that is appalling in this regard. Bearing in mind the way women were used in those days for suitable marriages, and their lack of say in most everything to do with their own lives, well, I think Sam would probably think the men of today have been somewhat curtailed in their manly rights. There are places in this world today that still practice such attitudes - just look at the recent case of the poor rape victim that was going to be stoned, or the role of women in the Middle East and not being able to go out without a male of their family in their presence, or even in some places not being able to drive or even vote (I won't say anything here about people who chose not to vote - another subject altogether and not one I'm too happy about). Just goes to show that some communities have moved with the times and others have steadfastly refused to budge, thereby wasting at least half of their population and the input of those wonderful citizens. Sorry ... just getting on the Germaine Greer bandwagon for a minute. Well - have a great Christmas one and all, I'm off to the work's lunch and then holidays. Chat again in the New Year. Stay safe.

Miss Ann   Link to this

PS: Good on Blackstone, and the ancient Goths - their attitudes could possibly stem the current increase in this type of crime, which we have seen plastered across the newspapers for the past few years here in Sydney, Australia.

cgs   Link to this

Mans use of power over the female in the workplace, in the military and other ngos, have come to light only after persistent action by the victims, they are ever present in the press.
The academies of learning have been exposed only to be forgotten by most, they are now only case histories.
The recent case in the news is in Iraq and contractor.
This not new, this evil conduct is going on right now, just like killing, robbery and other misuse of the rules of good human conduct.

Nate   Link to this

Some who study human behavior in terms of evolutionary pressures say that the drive to be an alpha male is just that: the alpha male has more access to females (or to whatever that drive may be sublimated). This does not excuse the behavior, of course.

It's good to be the King!

Bergie   Link to this

How many times does Mrs. Bagwell have to submit to Sam to fulfill her side of their bargain? He had his way with her once, and she participated reluctantly, with sighs. This time, she fought him. She may think her debt was paid the first time. This could go on and on. Even after Sam places Mr. Bagwell in a job, if he ever does, he can demand further "payments" from Mrs. B under threat of removing Mr. B from his ill-gotten post.

Mary   Link to this

Certainly not psychic.

We don't know the extent to which Bagwell himself is complicit in this 'negotiation', if complicit at all. However, Sam would probably not wish to be observed (by anyone) slipping into the Bagwell house when it might be known that Mrs. B. must be there alone; he has a position to keep up in Deptford. Much better to be there under the husband's aegis and then engineer an occasion for sin/crime.

Given his own proclivities, you can see why Sam gets so hideously jealous whenever another man casts an eye in Elizabeth's direction. He knows what he's capable of himself and hence what others might do.

Snow   Link to this

avec elle je tentais a faire ce que je voudrais et contre sa force je le faisais biens que passe a mon contentment’

Does Sam write about incidents like this in French because he's embarrassed or is he gloating? Bearing in mind the diary was written in code anyway why are these passages 'double coded'?

Wim van der Meij   Link to this

Re Snow's question: indeed Sam was still afraid to be found out; he sometimes used Latin or Spanish in cases like these.

jeannine   Link to this

A little off track, but… over the past few days we have (hopefully) seen Sam at his worst. In today’s terms he’d technically be called ‘wife beater’ and a ‘rapist’ under the laws of many countries. His biographers (Tomalin and Ollard) and Elizabeth’s biographer (Astin) all state plainly that he was a bully and tyrant. These past few days, however painful to read, have exemplified many of his character flaws. He has recorded his actions which have included deceit, premeditation, bullying, hitting and forcing himself sexually on a woman. Ungentlemanly, despicable, criminal acts (even in his time) he abuses his power over those who are ‘weaker’ than him. Although his taking of graft is less than ‘ethical’ it’s a lot easier to brush over as he doesn’t inflict such pain along the way.

To sidestep for comparison, Ollard, who wrote extensively of the time, also wrote a bio about Lord Sandwich, whom he clearly saw as a man of ‘good’ character, in spite of his flaws. And just to clear things up if there is any doubt for readers here, never in Sandwich’s biographies (Harris/Ollard) were there any indications that he ‘pushed’ Elizabeth or any other woman into any type of sexual relationship, as perhaps some of the annotators may portray. He earned his position but never abused the power that he had, as Sam clearly abuses his.

There is no defense of Sam’s actions. The only thing that will ‘save’ him over time is that as he grows and matures, and gets ‘kicked around’ by what life has coming his way, that he will become the man that made him famous (ie. Savior of the Navy, etc.). His success will be due to opportunity, history and among other things those other personality characteristics (organizational abilities, diligence, networking, etc.) that will kick in and move him along. His characteristics are what make him a fascinating person to read about. His Diary offers us a segment of his life with a unique honestly and frankness, that is incomparable.

In spite of his successes, he will never be ‘easy’ to live with, and clearly lacks the characteristic of empathy. Tomalin chose wisely when she subtitled her biography of Sam with the words, ‘the unequalled self’ as ‘self’ is what dominated his Diary and his life. One can only imagine that Elizabeth knew that ‘making friends’ was always a ‘good strategy’ for her long term ‘survival’. God bless Elizabeth for putting up with him, and hopefully, in some other world Mrs. Bagwell (and any of Sam’s other ‘victims’) will find peace.

jean-paul   Link to this

Aaaah, to jump into this self-congratulory ocean of self-righteousness! Bring the stones! Queuing up to buy bags of them, à la "Life of Brian"?
Count me out, please.

Pedro   Link to this

“self-congratulory ocean of self-righteousness”

I think this general phrase is totally unsuitable for most annotators of this site who themselves should be congratulated for their great contributions. I would wager that they are far from self-righteous.

Terry Foreman   Link to this

Others spent part of today concerned with naval hostilities (ref: Carte Calendar)

James Robinson to Sandwich
Written from: London

Date: 20 December 1664

Shelfmark: MS. Carte 75, fol(s). 285
Document type: Original

Sends an advice, that has come to him from Bruges, that the Zealanders are purposed to attempt some enterprize at or about the Isle of Wight. Thinks it can only be "a stratagem of fire-ships against the Royal Navy". Would have communicated this news to Sir H. Bennet, but could not get an interview.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

William Coventry to Sandwich
Written from: [St James's]

Date: 20 December 1664

Shelfmark: MS. Carte 75, fol(s). 287-288

Has received his Lordship's letter of the 18th, by express. Replies to various matters, as to the issue of Commissions and warrants. Orders have been sent to Captain Nixon, to attempt the intercepting of the Smyrna Fleet.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr Riordan to Ormond

Date: 20 [December?] 1664

Shelfmark: MS. Carte 215, fol(s). 113

Document type: Holograph

Gives his opinion upon the state of political parties in France.

French.

Adds in his PS., in English: "Your Grace may assure yourself [that] this nation will side [with] your enemies".

http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/projects...

language hat   Link to this

"In today’s terms he’d technically be called ‘wife beater’ and a ‘rapist’ under the laws of many countries."

Not sure why the qualifications; he is in fact a wife-beater and a rapist.

“self-congratulory ocean of self-righteousness”

Oh, spare us. I've been one of the first all along to say "We shouldn't judge Sam by our standards" and tell people not to be so harsh about what we would today call bribe-taking and the like, but this stuff is wrong by anybody's standards. Except, apparently, yours.

Ruben   Link to this

"he is in fact a wife-beater and a rapist."
Really? That is all it is to it? If Samuel would have burnt his diary, we would never have known about the Bagwell's, the wife beating, etc.
May I suggest that when Sandwich lived with a woman, not his wife, in Covent Garden, not long ago, she did not love him, but he forced himself by stratagems not better than Sam's, and one day he just walked away. That Sandwich wrote a diary, that the diary went down in battle together with his writer and finally that this last circumstance is the only reason he sounds so nice if you read his bio.
May I remind this public who was the King in 1664? A man with one legal wife, another half legal (previous to the diary), one principal concubine and a few more (I do not remember how many), most at the same time. Full on "natural" children. One of them older than Ms. Stewart. Proclaiming to belong to one Church, but really with his heart somewhere else.
Say thanks to Samuel Pepys, a man of his time, but with enough integrity to put on paper the good and the bad sides of his actions. Not an hipocrite, like most. There is no reason he should stand trial just because he was honest with himself and with history. He knew that one day his Diary would be on the Net.
He saved the diary for us to read and learn and we should walk Magdalene College Library in pantufles and not in high heels.

Michael Robinson   Link to this

“In today’s terms he’d technically be called ... a ‘rapist’

By his own admission SP is a rapist in the old common law terms; I cited Blackstone (1775-9) only because I could not easily find on the web the text of Hale's 'Pleas of the Crown' (1678). "Rape is an accusation easily to be made, hard to be proved, and harder yet to be defended by the party accused, tho' never so innocent," Hale's famous warning, repeated by Blackstone and used in charging juries for centuries, is unnecessary since SP's own words here clearly describe each element of the offense, carnal knowledge with force and against the will.

cgs   Link to this

adding fuel:

Man, sexual offences : rape, 29th April, 1674.
The Proceedings of the Old Bailey Ref: t16740429-4
view a gif image of the original file
See original
Trial Summary:

* Crime(s): rape">sexual offences : rape,
* Verdict: Not Guilty,
* Other trials on 29 Apr 1674
* Name search for: Man,

Original Text:

There was a French Man also tryed for a Rape; pretended to be Committed on his Maid-Servant , upon the Tryal she gave Evidence that she was one Morning about her business, and her Master arose and as she said took her Virginity from her, being askt what she meant by that, she answered her Maidenhead; but it appearing to the Court, that she had not acquainted any one of it till three days after it was pretended to be done, nor had not accused her Master for it till above three weeks after, he was found not Guilty, and so acquitted .
http://www.hrionline.ac.uk/luceneweb/bailey/hig...

Pedro   Link to this

The Diary.

I think that it must be remembered that at this moment in time, the period of the Diary, Pepys is writing only for himself; in shorthand with some coded messages. He has only mentioned the existence of the Diary to two people, and makes sure it is not discovered. Any decision to leave it to posterity is way in the future, and therefore, any rejoicing in heaven at a repentant sinner is a bit premature.

andy   Link to this

I think that, had Sam been called to account for the incident with Mrs Bagwell in her own home, and produced Bess as witness, with her black eye inflicted by him, he would have found it dificult to refute an allegation by Mrs Bagwell of sex by violence.

Michael Robinson   Link to this

The Proceedings of the Old Bailey

If ,hypothetically, SP were to end up before a criminal court I can certainly see today’s passage used as evidence of his innocence by some predecessor of the great Horace Rumpole:

“The prisoner here, a man with his mind worn out in his cares for this country’s service in time of war, a man whose private recreation is the singing of the Psalms, was so carefully practiced upon over such a long time by a couple so devious and persistent in their attempts to corruptly influence one of the King’s servants that he even believed in his own guilt when the husband departed and made the wife available … that such words should be written by a careful and scrupulous man, practiced in affairs, only serves to show how completely successful the pair had been in their plot to deprave and overbear his will and spirit for their own gain; … for their devious and disgusting purpose in perverting the conduct of one of the King’s officers in time of war, treason might not be a strong enough term to describe their behavior … etc., etc. Paraphrasing the words of the Psalm 35, sung so often by Mr Pepys, “For they have privily laid their net to destroy him without a cause; yea, even without a cause have thy made a pit for his soul. Let a sudden destruction come .. and her net, that she and he hath laid privily, catch them, that the Bagwells may fall into their own mischief.”

And all would be up to the jury.

Pedro   Link to this

“by some predecessor of the great Horace Rumpole.”

And the predecessor could also defend him against allegations made by “she who must be obeyed”


language hat   Link to this

"Really? That is all it is to it? If Samuel would have burnt his diary, we would never have known about the Bagwell’s, the wife beating, etc."

I don't know what "That is all it is to it?" is supposed to mean, but yes, really. He hit his wife and raped another woman. True, if he'd burned his diary, we wouldn't have known about it; is that supposed to absolve him? Or are you saying that if a crime doesn't get publicly known, it didn't really happen?

Ruben   Link to this

“That is all it is to it?”
First, I do not pretend to judge anyone, specially after 300 hundred years. I do not really know what happened, except for Pepys diary. What will you say if all this intrigue was only in Pepys imagination? In most countries you can not give evidence against yourself. And todays public hanging was done using Pepys writings to condemn him, that is, the same thing the Inquisition did.
Pepys was a creature of his time and if we want to judge his mores and conduct we should first look at the society were he lived. That is all I tried to say in my previous annotation.

I do not feel I have the right to throw the first stone and not the last stone. I do not absolve or condemn this man or any other for that matter. Who am I to pass judgment? I look at Pepys with curiosity trying better to understand the past and waiting to see his next move.
Have a Merry Christmas!

cgs   Link to this

ne'er ye forget the dastardly behavior of that wonderful prince Jamie, when he had his good buddies swear blind the future Q. Anne's mother was a Jezebel, so that he would not have to wed. Not too long ago that story be told in the news again, different actors, different times.
No one be perfect.
As Syrus say: "Onnes qui occulte peccant , peccant ocius" maxims

if thee can sin without being caught then thee will do so

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