Monday 8 August 1664

Up and abroad with Sir W. Batten, by coach to St. James’s, where by the way he did tell me how Sir J. Minnes would many times arrogate to himself the doing of that that all the Board have equal share in, and more that to himself which he hath had nothing to do in, and particularly the late paper given in by him to the Duke, the translation of a Dutch print concerning the quarrel between us and them, which he did give as his own when it was Sir Richard Ford’s wholly. Also he told me how Sir W. Pen (it falling in our discourse touching Mrs. Falconer) was at first very great for Mr. Coventry to bring him in guests, and that at high rates for places, and very open was he to me therein. After business done with the Duke, I home to the Coffee-house, and so home to dinner, and after dinner to hang up my fine pictures in my dining room, which makes it very pretty, and so my wife and I abroad to the King’s play-house, she giving me her time of the last month, she having not seen any then; so my vowe is not broke at all, it costing me no more money than it would have done upon her, had she gone both her times that were due to her. Here we saw “Flora’s Figarys.” I never saw it before, and by the most ingenuous performance of the young jade Flora, it seemed as pretty a pleasant play as ever I saw in my life. So home to supper, and then to my office late, Mr. Andrews and I to talk about our victualling commission, and then he being gone I to set down my four days past journalls and expenses, and so home to bed.

24 Annotations

Martin   Link to this

"I set down my four days past journalls and expenses, and so home to bed."
When the location of the "journall" was last mentioned (31 December 1663), it was home, but now it seems to be at the office.

Patricia   Link to this

"she giving me her time of the last month, she having not seen any then; so my vowe is not broke at all, it costing me no more money than it would have done upon her, had she gone both her times that were due to her."
Q. When is a vow not a vow? A. When it can be rationalized away.
I love Sam's reasoning here.

Robert Gertz   Link to this

So Bess is in on the vows...And has her own share in them, even to the ability to "carbon trade" her play days. An intriguing hint as to the extent of the Pepys' intimacy...We can really wonder if perhaps Sam did share (carefully edited) parts of the Diary with her as well.

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"Well, that takes care of plays." Bess gives shrewd glance...

"Hows about...Fat Betty penalty?"

"Ummn..."

"I thought so." cool nod. Oh, my." whack of fair head. "I forgot...I used up all my infidelity points for the past month at Brampton." Sweet smile. "Guess you'll have to pay up, dearest."

"Avoided Fleet Alley." Sam notes, a bit abjectly. "Bonus points?"

"Fifty percent. And more than you deserve, rogue of mine."

"Aye. Uh...Bess? All your points, at Brampton? Really?"

Sweeter smile...

Robert Gertz   Link to this

Minnes, of all people, makes a grab for power in the office?

Sam, however, doesn't seem all that perturbed.

cape henry   Link to this

"Sam, however, doesn't seem all that perturbed." It's likely that given the source of this information, Sam reads a little or a lot between the lines - office politics. It strikes me that Batten does nothing and says nothing gratuitously.

Terry F   Link to this

Mennes does a dotard's power-grab? Pepys peeps nought, but writes it all down, bides time.

PHE   Link to this

Can anyone enlighten us on the meaning of the following, especially 'print':

"the translation of a Dutch print concerning the quarrel between us and them"?

Sam's justification for going to the theatre is a fascinating example of the apparent uniqueness of his diary. While the reasoning undoubtedly went through his head on the day, he clearly felt enough self doubt and guilt to feel the need to put it in writing. Once the argument was set out clearly, he could then put his conscience at ease. Again, his diaries not only tell us much about his own personality, but about human nature in general. As Patricia has implied, we have all justified (minor?) misdemeanors to ourselves in similar ways.

Michael Robinson   Link to this

"... the translation of a Dutch print ..."

Pint -- printed thing, for example news books; later newspapers were referred to as the "public prints." Here the accusation is that Mennes was representing to the Duke that Sir Richard Ford's translation from the Dutch was his own.

L&M note: "Neither the original nor the translation have been identified. There were many such broadsheets and pamphlets. Ford was one of the leaders of the merchant interest now pressing for war against the Dutch."

Michael Robinson   Link to this

"... with Sir W. Batten, ... , where by the way he did tell me how Sir J. Minnes ..."

Could Batten, who can not be ignorant of Pepys attitude towards him and SP's inquiries amongst dockyard officers and staff about him, be trying to 'wind up' SP and set him against Penn (the most competent sailing commander)and the two people with the strongest connections at court, Minnes and Coventry -- thereby decreasing the credibility of accusations SP might make against Batten?

"He does it all the time and to everybody; no one is safe from his unfounded suspicions ..." etc., etc. "He is just too young to understand how senior people work and reads everything the wrong way etc., etc. ..."

Sean   Link to this

Pepy's co-workers are numbskulls or blowhards. It doesn't stop surprising my (though I don't know why by now) that his complains sound so much like the complaints you might hear from someone today.

Big build up to a possible war... I think Pepy's even mentioned before that he thought England was provoking it... sometimes seems like the only thing that's changed since then is that now we have flush toilets.

Robert Gertz   Link to this

I wonder if Batten has been noting Pepys' progress toward the "dark side" of dealings with merchants and so forth and, perhaps as a famed turn-coat, feeling a little endangered by Penn's growing prominence with the coming of war and Minnes' sudden burst of activity has decided now is the time to forge an alliance with Coventry's favored lad.

As for Sir John, we have been getting hints that he's not so totally ineffectual a dotard as Sam frequently makes him out to be.

bitter o salt   Link to this

Print covers many sins. it be a mark of any kind.

[< print, past participle of PRINT v. Cf. Anglo-Norman prent, print, prynt imprinted, stamped (1212 as prient), Middle Dutch gheprent printed, imprinted, sealed, stamped (Dutch {dag}geprent). With sense 1b

[< PRINT n.; in branch II. perh. also partly shortened < IMPRINT v. (which is attested earlier in the typographical sense, and appears to be more frequent than the simplex verb in early use in this sense). Cf. Anglo-Norman praint, prent, preint, print, prynt (1212 or earlier as prient), past participle of preindre, preendre to press, to squeeze, to stamp (see PRINT n.). Cf. also Middle Dutch prenten, preinten, printen to press, to squeeze, to impress, to stamp (with a die or pointed instrument), to cast in a mould, to form, shape, to engrave, (fig.) to leave an impression in (the mind or heart) (Dutch prenten, {dag}printen), Middle Low German prenten to impress, stamp, to cause to leave a mark, to print (books, pamphlets), to be a printer, and (< Middle Low German) Old Danish prente to print (books, pamphlets) (Danish (now arch. or regional) prente to print (books, pamphlets), to engrave, to write down or draw using a pointed object, to write (letters) separately in a style resembling printed text, to impress (also fig.)), Swedish pränta, {dag}prenta to print (books, pamphlets) (now rare), to write (letters) separately in a style resembling printed text, (now obs.) to engrave, to stamp (a coin). Cf. also Middle French (Walloon) printer to coin or stamp money (1544). Cf. PRINT adj.1, PRINTED adj., both of which are first attested slightly earlier in the typographical sense.

With sense 6 cf. PRINT n. 1d, finger-print vb. at FINGER n. Compounds 15.]
a sample

A. n.

I. General non-typographical senses.

1. a. The impression or imprint made by the impact of a stamp, seal, die, or the like on a surface; a distinctive stamped or printed mark or design. ..c1300

1660 F. BROOKE tr. V. Le Blanc World Surveyed 69 That famous Idol made of the tooth of a Monkey... The King of Pegu..sent yearely Ambassadours thither, to take the print of it upon Amber.

another view.
b. A piece of butter (later also of cheese, etc.) which has been shaped in a mould (cf. BUTTER-PRINT n. 1). Now Sc., Irish English (north.), and N. Amer...1566

Carl in Boston   Link to this

Pepys has got it right. He goes to the office, and finds the usual farce with Sir Minnes. Pepys pays no attention at all, has a good lunch, and takes the afternoon off to go home and hang fine pictures in his dining room and take Elizabeth to a play (she smiling all the while at his abstruse calculations of vows, which come out all right for her to go to a play). They do say the French know how to live, but Pepys is not too bad at smelling the roses and s@@@w them all. Tis a truth,, Living Well Is The Best Revenge, and keeping up on Pepys is good living indeed.

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"Now, Sir John...Now is our...er, your moment." ambitious clerk one presses...

"The prize is great, Sir John. Strike for it!" power hungry clerk two urges...

"Sir John?" the two would-be powers-behind-the-throne eye the snoring Minnes...

Michael Robinson   Link to this

"... hang up my fine pictures in my dining room, ..."

Almost certainly prints and most probably engravings.

L&M Companion p. 11, 'Art & Architecture':-

"... In 1666 Pepys had only one landscape - a Dutch snow scene - and one religious piece, a heard of Santa Clara (by an unknown artist.) He did not possess, by the end of the diary, any still-lifes or illusionist pictures, though they were in many ways his favorite pictures. ..."

PHE   Link to this

bitter o salt. Thank you - I know what 'print' means. What I was interested to know was the specific meaning as used here by Sam P.

bitter o salt   Link to this

"...and particularly the late paper given in by him to the Duke, the translation of a Dutch print concerning the quarrel between us and them, which he did give as his own when it was Sir Richard Ford's wholly..."

pure guess> it be translation of drawing [or satirical cartoon] that depicts the Dutch version of the quarrel , then has the audacity to make the work, his version to get points, it be redrawn and reworded for better point scoring, as it could be slighting the Anglos.
Print be it on paper or on copper is not clear.

The OED had recorded print being used in so many ways, that one could write a thesis on its meaning.
One has to rely on context and if it still exists in Pepys papers, for a concise answer.
I believe political cartoons were all the rage.

bitter o salt   Link to this

follow up Cartoon: 1. A drawing on stout paper, made as a design for a painting of the same size to be executed in fresco or oil, or for a work in tapestry, mosaic, stained glass, or the like.
1671 EVELYN Diary 18 Jan., I perceived him [Gibbon], carving that large cartoon, or crucifix, of Tintoretto.

bitter o salt   Link to this

Should have read the book, it be banned here but can be found at Brown University , the 1602 edition.

Robert Gertz   Link to this

Well, as always, I enjoyed the full definitions. Thanks, BoS.

Seems very natural of poor Sir John to rush in and try to stress his scholar's credentials by suggesting he had translated the Dutch public report on the negotiations.

***

It's interesting to see the Dutch using a printed format, presumably cheap and widely distributed, to get their spin on the situation out to the world. Charles' government employs heavy censorship and newspapers per se were just starting to emerge in formats we might recognize so the Dutch naturally try to bypass by printing a propaganda "leaflet".

Hmmn...Are these coming over on merchant ships (bearing plague rats from Amsterdam?) or being printed right in England? If no imported source for the prints has been identified, and they're not the product of the Dutch Embassy, it's not surprising it would be a serious matter for the Duke.

Michael Robinson   Link to this

Dutch Printing in England & propaganda

It would appear that almost all printing in Dutch was taking place in the Netherlands and that the standard Dutch/English-English/Dutch dictionary, prepared by an Englishman, was printed and issued in Rotterdam and not London, at least four editions to 1660 -- the Dutch appear to have been more interested in the English language than the English in the Dutch. I can find no evidence of any surviving Dutch propaganda printing in English, or Dutch, for distribution in England.

However, the English certainly were cranking up the internal propaganda against the Dutch, a typical example by 'A true lover and asserter of his countries honour' 'English and Dutch affairs displayed to the life: both in matters of warr, state, and merchandize; how far the English engaged in their defence, against the most potent monarchy of Spain; and how ill the Dutch have since requited the English, for their extraordinary favours; not onely in the time of Queen Elizabeth their protector and defendress; but also in the time of King James, by their bloody massacree of them at Amboyna: their ingratitude to King Charles the First of glorious memory: and the true state of affairs, as they now stand in the reign of our royal soveraign, King Charles the Second.' London : printed by Thomas Mabb, for Edward Thomas at the Adam and Eve in Little Brittaine, 1664. [4], 56 p. ; 4⁰.

[A quick and dirty check in the ESTC database shows a very small number of imprints in Dutch in England, less than 15 prior to 1800 -- the largest distinct group are psalters of the mid C16th. from London and Norwich. There appear to be about the same number of uses of 'London' as a false imprint in Dutch publications clearly employed to evade local, Dutch, censorship and a small number (less than ten) of Dutch re-printings, circa 1648, of London works on the execution of Charles I etc.

The 'standard,' in fact the only, Dutch/English Dictionary was printed and issued in Rotterdam; Henry Hexam (?1585-?1650)'A copious English and Netherduytch dictionarie composed out of our best English authours : with an appendix of the names of all kind of beasts, fowles, birds, fishes, hunting, and hawking : as also a compendious grammar for the instruction of the learner = Het groot woorden-boeck : gestelt in't Engelsch ende Nederduytsch : met een appendix van de namen van alderley beesten, vogelen, visschen, jagerye, ende valkerye, &c. : als oock een korte Engelsche grammatica ... Rotterdam 1647-48; 1648; 1658; 1660. The relatively small number of copies of the various in English institutional collections (there are three times as many in N. American Universities alone) suggest the work was not in wide demand in England. The place in the English speaking world with the largest number of imprints in Dutch is New York, beginning at the end of the C 17th. onward.]

Pedro   Link to this

On this day August 8th/18th in the Med...

De Ruyter was with a number of merchantmen, and sailing through the Straits to Tangier, where he met Lawson. This time salvos were fired on both sides, but neither dipped the flag, for De Ruyter had not yet received De Witt's letter. Personal relations between the two Admirals continued to be friendly, and each sent their own captain on board the other flagship with complimentary messages. Lawson even offered to fetch refreshments and water from the nearest Spanish ports, because he could not be refused practica. De Ruyter (not allowed to land due to fears of plague on his ships) politely declined the offer.

Pedro   Link to this

Above info from Life of Admiral De Ruyter by Blok.

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