Saturday 12 September 1663

Up betimes, and by water to White Hall; and thence to Sir Philip Warwick, and there had half an hour’s private discourse with him; and did give him some good satisfaction in our Navy matters, and he also me, as to the money paid and due to the Navy; so as he makes me assured by particulars, that Sir G. Carteret is paid within 80,000l. every farthing that we to this day, nay to Michaelmas day next have demanded; and that, I am sure, is above 50,000l. more than truly our expenses have been, whatever is become of the money.

Home with great content that I have thus begun an acquaintance with him, who is a great man, and a man of as much business as any man in England; which I will endeavour to deserve and keep.

Thence by water to my office, in here all the morning, and so to the ‘Change at noon, and there by appointment met and bring home my uncle Thomas, who resolves to go with me to Brampton on Monday next. I wish he may hold his mind. I do not tell him, and yet he believes that there is a Court to be that he is to do some business for us there. The truth is I do find him a much more cunning fellow than I ever took him for, nay in his very drink he has his wits about him.

I took him home to dinner, and after dinner he began, after a glass of wine or two, to exclaim against Sir G. Carteret and his family in Jersey, bidding me to have a care of him, and how high, proud, false, and politique a fellow he is, and how low he has been under his command in the island.

After dinner, and long discourse, he went away to meet on Monday morning, and I to my office, and thence by water to White Hall and Westminster Hall about several businesses, and so home, and to my office writing a laborious letter about our last account to my Lord Treasurer, which took me to one o’clock in the morning, [continued tomorrow P.G.]


17 Annotations

dirk  •  Link

According to this letter Carteret and Mennes originally gave the figure of £277,000. This was reduced to £136,000 by Sam, who still considered this amount too high. (See L&M)

I can't make these figures correspond to the ones Sam mentiones here in his diary. Anyone?

TerryF  •  Link

The invoice presented to Sir Philip Warwick?

8 September - "At the office all the morning making up our last half year’s account to my Lord Treasurer, which comes to 160,000l. or there abouts, the proper expense of this half year, only with an addition of 13,000l. for the third due of the last account to the Treasurer for his disbursements, and 1100l. for this half year’s; so that in three years and a half his thirds come to 14,100l."
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1663/09/08/

L&M say the record shows the invoice came to £167,215. The "third" is the Sir G. Carteret’s allowance.

Still.....

TerryF  •  Link

Still...I fear the figures of 8 September shed no light at all on the letter of Carteret and Mennes.

It seemed to me that what was under discussion in the morning and at day's end are the accounts for the past half year of 8 September. AND there is a strong indication from Sir Philip Warwick that the like account will be paid going forward; but the *figures* don't compute (sure).

Miss Ann fr Home  •  Link

My, my isn't Sam pleased with his networking - Sir Philip Warwick no less - he'll bask in this acquaintance no doubt. Our boy is ever so slowly making his way up the ladder and into history ... I'm just so proud of him.

Sam always has his work up-to-date and is prepared for each and every meeting no matter whether it is with the heirarchy or some clerk at the shipyards, providor, etc - a fine way of doing business if I may say so.

Todd Bernhardt  •  Link

"whatever is become of the money"

The question we continue to ask today...

Robert Gertz  •  Link

"...that Sir G. Carteret is paid within 80,000l. every farthing that we to this day, nay to Michaelmas day next have demanded."

Hmmn...And the budget submitted was 277,000L cut by Sam to 136,000L? 80,000 seems quite a margin of error.
***

"...whatever is become of the money..."

Rake-off to Lady Castlemaine...er, the King -$40,000L
Sir John's share - $20,000L
Bribes to Sir Wills Penn and Batten -$9,000 ea.
Money actually devoted to naval expenses-$30,000
Getting to keep the remaining $28,000-Priceless.
"Damn that Pepys anyway." Carteret bitterly notes. "We could have had the whole damned $277,000L. A whole other $30,000L for the Navy. Where's the lad's patriotism?"

Bradford  •  Link

All right, I'm dim or inattentive. "I wish he may hold his mind. I do not tell him, and yet he believes that there is a Court to be that he is to do some business for us there." But is there not a court at Brampton this coming week, which Pepys regretted he must attend? Is his point that Uncle Thomas thinks he's going to be in charge of some proceeding when he isn't? "I wish he may hold his mind"---is this analogous to holding one's tongue, or holding to one's purpose?

And does the phrase "nay in his very drink he has his wits about him" offer some unwitting self-revelation?

TerryF  •  Link

"I wish he may hold his mind"

Bradford, I assumed "this [is] analogous to holding one’s tongue" - but perhaps Mr. Hat or someone else as erudite will know for sure.

Robert Gertz  •  Link

I'd say "hold his mind" in this case refers to the resolution to go to Brampton. Roughly "I hope Uncle holds to his resolution", I think is what Sam's saying.

So Uncle Tom's dislike of Carteret stems from his wife's being from Jersey (according to the background link)? Wonder what Sir George pulled on the family there.

Lurker  •  Link

Out of context, the comment about wits in drink suggests he's not one to become talkative when inebriated.

Aqua  •  Link

"...nay in his very drink he has his wits about him..." Lurker you be correct, there be no flies on Uncle Thomas, "I wish he may hold his mind"
and He be an opininated old coot too. Samuell be hoping that he will hold in his head, his 'torts' and not let his tongue rattle.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

Robert Gertz asks: "So Uncle Tom's dislike of Carteret stems from his wife's being from Jersey...? Wonder what Sir George pulled on the family there."

L&M remind us of Coventry's stories about Carteret's government:
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1663/06/24/

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"I took him home to dinner, and after dinner he began, after a glass of wine or two, to exclaim against Sir G. Carteret and his family in Jersey, bidding me to have a care of him, and how high, proud, false, and politique a fellow he is, and how low he has been under his command in the island."

Thomas Pepys had married a Jersey woman, Marie Syvret. Carteret had been Governor of the island, 1643-51, and came himself of a Jersey family. Cf. Coventry's stories about Carteret's government: http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1663/06/24/ (L&M note)

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Yesterday: "I took coach to Sir Philip Warwick’s, but finding Sir G. Carteret there I did not go in, ..."

Now we know why. Pepys suspected he would be exposing his colleague for over-estimating his "cut" of the Navy money. Strange it was paid in advance, and not based on accounts, but I suppose Charles II had to make these jobs attractive, and past accounts under Cromwell would not be acceptable or realistic.

"... isn't Sam pleased with his networking - Sir Philip Warwick no less - he'll bask in this acquaintance no doubt. Our boy is ever so slowly making his way up the ladder ..." He's doing his job. He's the office wonk, the accountant, the numbers man. The CLERK of the Acts had the job of recording what the rest of the Navy Board did. And the Navy budget is controlled by Warwick/Southampton.

From Claire Tomalin's "Samuel Pepys: The Unequalled Self" pp 49-50
http://www.pepysdiary.com/encyclopedia/482/#c6017

"Sir George Carteret, an impeccable royalist whose service at sea had begun under King Charles and who had held Jersey for him, was appointed Treasurer. He had official lodgings at Whitehall, a house in Pall Mall, another at Deptford and a country mansion near Windsor, and he was the highest paid, with L2,000 a year and the right to three pence in every pound he handled -- this was a remnant of the old way of doing things."

Well paid indeed. And the system is set up to reward over-charging and corruption at every level.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

To be fair, Charles II sometimes used his Courtiers' money as a slush fund:

On 13 December 1662, Charles II ordered £20,000 of the Dunkirk money to be used to secure a navy debt raised by George Carteret on his own credit, and £30,000 to secure a further loan to the navy from Aldermen Vyner, Maynell and Backwell. -- (L&M note)

Gerald Berg  •  Link

Yes SDSarah. Pay out of one hand and scoop some back with the other.

80k! No way Sir C. gets to keep it all for himself.

Chris Squire UK  •  Link

Re: ‘ . . "he may hold his mind" . . ’

I haven’t found this in the OED under either ‘hold’ or ‘mind’; I think Robert Gertz above 13.09.16 is correct.

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