Monday 30 July 1660
Sat at our office to-day, and my father came this day the first time to see us at my new office. And Mrs. Crisp by chance came in and sat with us, looked over our house and advised about the furnishing of it. This afternoon I got my 50l., due to me for my first quarter’s salary as Secretary to my Lord, paid to Tho. Hater for me, which he received and brought home to me, of which I am full glad. To Westminster and among other things met with Mr. Moore, and took him and his friend, a bookseller of Paul’s Churchyard, to the Rhenish Winehouse, and drinking there the sword-bearer of London (Mr. Man) came to ask for us, with whom we sat late, discoursing about the worth of my office of Clerk of the Acts, which he hath a mind to buy, and I asked four years’ purchase. We are to speak more of it to-morrow. Home on foot, and seeing him at home at Butler’s merry, he lent me a torch, which Will carried, and so home.
Judy Bailey Link to this
So far, money seems to be transferred in cash person-to-person and kept track of in account books. What kind of banking system was in place in London at this time and what services were used? Could one borrow money, for example? Did many people use banks? Why or why not?
Paul Brewster Link to this
Butler's merry -> Butlersbury
According to L&M the last sentence is “Home on foot; and seeing him at home in Butlersbury, he lent me a torch, which Will carried; and so home.”
I guess this wording implies that he saw Mr. Man to his home at Butlersbury and then went home from there.
Alan Bedford Link to this
It's beginning to look like any government job could be bought or sold in Pepys' day! William Man appears interested in purchasing Sam's new position, and Sam has come up with an asking price. It seems to me that four years' pay (if I read it correctly) would have been a fairly rich amount, and probably out of Man's range.
vincent Link to this
"...he lent me a torch, which Will carried.." I just wonder why ? no mites or no boy to light the way?
Buying and selling of Commissions was a natural feature of life at that time as selling futures on the grain market today. It was rummoured that it was a 20th century habit too for certain military positions:
Any body! Know where Butlersbury would be?
Cash was king until 1960's. When banks & bank transfer systems robberies were the rage for transfering cash from Legitimate organisations to the under world.
Opening a Bank account in the 60's was a major operation, To open an account at a bank and deposit monies, one had to know a person of substance like the local JP to vouch for your character.
chip Link to this
I found the first line extraordinary, how Pepys interchanges the plural possessive pronoun for the singular. Note it is our office that then becomes my new office. And again, Mrs. Crisp looked over our house. And did anyone else notice that 50l is a quarter of 200l. Was not Pepys' salary either 100l or 350l? The numbers just do not add up. I was astonished that Pepys was willing to sell the commission so rapidly, whether at the 800l or 1400l rate. Of course he sees himself worth 120l at the moment as we learned last night. Incidentally, Vincent, cash is still King, much used by the underworld.
Sam Sampson Link to this
Butlersbury = Bucklersbury?
A search on Butlersbury gave 25 sites, all in the US, but Google kindly suggested I try Bucklersbury. Top of that list was a place in Hitchin, near Luton, but that's a 38 mile walk, a bit long even for SP. The site is worth a visit for photos of existing medieval building.
http://www.discoverhitchin.com/bucklers.htm
A London real estate agent site gave "Bucklersbury is situated at the junction between Queen Victoria Street and Walbrook, near the Mansion House" and a link to a map:
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?P2M?P=...
IMHO - there have been a few transcrition errors, and this is the place Sam is talking of.
Sam Sampson Link to this
Bucklersbury
If my above assumption is correct, we may need a Bucklersbury link in "Places" please Phil. A few appropriate links include.
Museum of London - "The Bucklersbury Pavement" {Roman). Access from:
http://www.museum-london.org.uk/frames.shtml?ht...
London Ancestor - "Cheapside, Poultry, & Bucklersbury" - an etching
http://www.londonancestor.com/views/vl-cheaps0.htm
The Tertullian Project - "John Clement and his Books" - Bucklersbury as the 'Apothecary Quarter' ca 1520
http://www.tertullian.org/articles/reed_john_cl...
Shades of SP "In 1518, having been promoted to the service of Cardinal Wolsey, Clement was warned by Erasmus against studying at night, and advised to learn to write standing when on duty, an unusual occupation for a gentleman-in-waiting."
More to come...
Pauline Link to this
"I was astonished that Pepys was willing to sell the commission so rapidly"
Two things, Chip:
He hasn't said he was willing.
He has always appeared hot and cold about this job.
And then there is the house and Montagu/Sandwich's persuasiveness.
Matthew Link to this
Wages adding up.
S.P. specifies that the 50 l. is payment as secretary to "my lord", which is presumably in addition to his payment as Clerk of the Acts.
Mary Link to this
Banking in 17th Century London.
For a brief but interesting note on banking during this period, see www.hoaresbank.co.uk/html/history. In 1660 most folk did not use any form of banking as we understand it. Money could be kept at a goldsmith's (secure premises) or otherwise at home or business premises in a heavy chest or well hidden about the house. No such things as cheques existed, but money could be transferred both as cash in hand and by promissory note, or note of hand.
helena murphy Link to this
Had Pepys ever wished to sell his position as Clerk of the Acts it is unlikely that he would have done so without consulting Lord Sandwich,to whom he owes the post, who is not only his patron but also his relative which further binds the relationship.The job also connects him to a wider world such as the aristocratic milieu of the Montagues, The House of Lords ,and the Stuart Court through the Lord High Admiralty of James, Duke of York. This however may not be always evident as Pepys generally tends to be rather self effacing about the office.
vincent Link to this
see www.hoaresbank.co.uk/html/history
s/b http://www.hoaresbank.co.uk/html/flashversion.html
Banking has changed radically: no longer pay envelopes full of coins for working masses (they did not trust banks especially after the 1929 fiasco ):
A great status symbol to be known by the local bank manager. A 5l note was very rare too, when a living wage was 30 shillings and a cuppa of tay was a 1d.
john lauer Link to this
Sam S, We're confused now --
are you saying Bucklersbury is not any 38 miles, but just blocks away, so it is walking distance for a man and boy with torch??
Sam Sampson Link to this
Bucklersbury
Sorry for the confusion John, I didn't explain that well. I found two Bucklersbury's in the UK.
1. Bucklersbury - Hitchin, which is 38 miles from London. I linked to it, as medieval buildings which have survived to the present day. Slightly off-topic, but interesting.
2. Bucklersbury - London, which the map link locates. It's only 0.8 miles from Pepys' home. The other Bucklersbury links are to that location.
Barbara Link to this
Bucklersbury still exists, just south of the Bank of England. It would be about a third of the distance between St Paul's Churchyard and Seething Lane and not out of the way. I assume Will returned the torch the next day!
Glyn Link to this
I've just noticed that Hoare's Bank in Fleet Street has a blue plaque on the front of the building saying that it is on "the site of the Mitre Tavern". This is the Mitre Tavern that Sam visited on 21 January and 18 February.
Linda Camidge Link to this
Neall Stephenson's Baroque trilogy is good on early banking (at least, I assume it's good. It's certainly coherent) and a fantastic read - I'd recommend it to anyone interested enough in the period. and lierate enough, to follow SP.