Wednesday 17 October 1660

Office day. At noon came Mr. Creed to me, whom I took along with me to the Feathers in Fish Street, where I was invited by Captain Cuttance to dinner, a dinner made by Mr. Dawes and his brother. We had two or three dishes of meat well done; their great design was to get me concerned in a business of theirs about a vessel of theirs that is in the service, hired by the King, in which I promise to do them all the service I can. From thence home again with Mr. Crew [“Mr. Creed” in Latham & Matthews. P.G.], where I finding Mrs. The. Turner and her aunt Duke I would not be seen but walked in the garden till they were gone, where Mr. Spong came to me and Mr. Creed, Mr. Spong and I went to our music to sing, and he being gone, my wife and I went to put up my books in order in closet, and I to give her her books. After that to bed.


19 Annotations

First Reading

Paul Brewster  •  Link

From thence home again with Mr. Creed
L&M replace Mr Crew with Mr Creed. It seems to make more sense in the coontext of the day.

Nix  •  Link

"but walked in the garden till they were gone" --

Why is Samuel ducking them? I don't recall anything in the past, or see anything here, that would suggest a reason.

Glyn  •  Link

And how old is Theophila Turner? The link to her biography says she's aged eight - presumably that's her daughter?

Paul Brewster  •  Link

her aunt Dike
L&M replace aunt Duke with Aunt Dike. A genealogy contained in the Wheatley identifies her as Elizabeth Dyke.

Paul Brewster  •  Link

Mrs. The Turner
from the OED

b. In the 17th and 18th c. prefixed to the name of an unmarried lady or girl; equivalent to the mod. use of miss n.2 Obs. …
c1645 Howell Lett. … An ill-favoured quarrell about Mrs. Baker, the Maid of honor. 1707 Hearne Collect. … Mrs. Molly Levins Which Mrs. Levins is a Beautifull young Brisk Lady of about 16 or 17 Years of Age. 1722 De Foe Col. Jack, etc. … Mrs. Veal was a maiden gentlewoman. 1751 Smollett Per. Pic. … His only sister Mrs. Grizzle was now in the thirtieth year of her maidenhood.

Paul Brewster  •  Link

where Mr. Spong came to me. They being gone and Mr. Creed, Mr. Spong and I went to our Musique to sing;
L&M insert ". They being gone"

vincent  •  Link

The Aunt: she may have a wee small bone to pick with our SP: maybe not paying sufficient attention to T or too much???

Mary  •  Link

Theophila Turner

Is indeed just 8/9 yeaers old at this point. She is the daughter of Jane Turner (nee Pepys) and the niece of Jane's sister, Elizabeth Dyke. (L&M Companion). Jane and Elizabeth are related to Pepys, but only distantly, as their father, John Pepys, is Sam's 3rd cousin once removed.

During at least part of the period of the diary, the Turners lived in a house in Salisbury Court.

vincent  •  Link

"...my wife and I went to put up my books in order in closet, and I to give her her books. After that to bed...." The wife gets the easy job again maybe? Up the ladder and stretching........ was "her books" her books her way ? and He put up his own books in his way?

Pauline  •  Link

"...and I to give her her books."
It almost sounded like he was passing them up to her and she was up the ladder, except for the "her books."

Back on March 17, Sam made out a will in which all his French books would be left to Elizabeth. http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
I wonder if as they get moved in and shelve the books he hasn't decided to give them to her now?

Or maybe they are just unmixing their books that have been jointly packed away. There is more room in their new home, so each may have lots of options for arranging their own possessions, which may have been shoved together before.

Mary  •  Link

Closets (a small spoiler)

We shall find that both Sam and Elizabeth have their own closets (sometimes called cabinets). Every person of fashion came to have one; a small room or partitioned area where personal treasures (which could include books) were stored and might be displayed to a select few friends.

Pauline has it: their books have all been packed together for the house-move and now that the painters and carpenters have done there work, are being unpacked and sorted. Sam, having the greater quantity of books, gets Elizabeth to help with shelving his own library. Now that they are living in a larger house, Elizabeth can have her very own closet and so Sam gives her her books to shelve as she wishes.

vincent  •  Link

The Closet [w.c.] Is still called a library in some circles when off to the "Jacques" or "Lou"

Second Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"I finding Mrs. The. Turner and her aunt Duke I would not be seen" -- perhaps this annote by Pauline helps explain:

Claire Tomalin on Theophila:
"[Jane Turner] comes out of the Diary as the strongest character among the Pepys clan after Sam himself....

"The next formidable member of the family was her daughter Theophila, known as "The" and, unlike her brothers, always kept with [Jane]. "The" makes her first appearance in the Diary on 1 January 1660, supping with Pepys's father; she was a precocious, indulged and confident child and something of a brat. At nine she was ordering her own harpsichord and refusing to give Pepys a lesson on it when he asked her (although he could play several string and wind instruments, he never mastered a keyboard). When Elizabeth sent her a gift of doves, "The" distinguished herself by writing her a rude letter, complaining that they had come in an inadequate cage; she grumbled about...[spoiler].... Mother and daughter made a remarkably strong-minded pair."

Claire Tomalin, "Samuel Pepys: The Unequalled Self," pp233-234
[ Typos corrected. ] http://www.pepysdiary.com/encyclo…

Gerald Berg  •  Link

Re: The Closet
Having had the benefit of watching Amanda Vickery's excellent At Home with the Georgians the ultimate bonus of the closet ( as I recall) was that it was a place for absolute privacy. That is the servants were forbidden entry.

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"Gerald Berg:Re: The Closet
Having had the benefit of watching Amanda Vickery's excellent At Home with the Georgians the ultimate bonus of the closet ( as I recall) was that it was a place for absolute privacy. That is the servants were forbidden entry.

This may be already true of the WC of the Pepys's and their ilk, but is a privilege withheld from the Stuart Kings who have a Groom of the Stool (formally styled: "Groom of the King's Close Stool"). "the most intimate of an English monarch's courtiers, responsible for assisting the king in excretion and ablution." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro…

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"their great design was to get me concerned in a business of theirs about a vessel of theirs that is in the service, hired by the King,"

L&M: Probably the Seaflow ketch of 50 tons, hired on 24 June 1660 at £18 per month, of which Henry Dawes was part-owner. But she was not released until February 1662. PRO, Adm. 20/3, p. 76.

Third Reading

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Meanwhile the bloodbath continues at Charing Cross:

John Evelyn doesn't get it entirely right:
17 October, 1660.

Scot, Scroop, Cook, and Jones, suffered for reward of their iniquities at Charing Cross, in sight of the place where they put to death their natural prince, and in the presence of the King his son, whom they also sought to kill.

I saw not their execution, but met their quarters, mangled, and cut, and reeking, as they were brought from the gallows in baskets on the hurdle.

Oh, the miraculous providence of God!

@@@

John Cook -- https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
He died on 16 October, 1660

Thomas Scot MP -- https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
He died 17 October 1660

Col. Adrian Scrope -- https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
He died on 17 October, 1660

Col. John Jones MP -- https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
He died on 17 October, 1660

@@@

There was another prisoner arriving in London that day -- albeit on his own recognizance -- what a welcome for George Fox!

'Then, travelling on, visiting Friends’ meetings, in about 3 weeks’ time from my coming out of [LANCASTER] prison I reached London, Richard Hubberthorn and Robert Withers being with me.

'When we came to Charing-Cross, multitudes of people were gathered together to see the burning of the bowels of some of the old King’s judges, who had been hanged, drawn and quartered.

'We went next morning to Judge Mallet’s chamber. He was putting on his red gown to sit in judgment upon some more of the King’s judges. He was then very peevish and froward, and said I might come another time.

'We went again to his chamber when there was with him Judge Foster, who was called the Lord Chief-Justice of England. With me was one called Esquire Marsh, who was one of the bedchamber to the King. When we had delivered to the judges the charge that was against me, and they had read to those words, “that I and my friends were embroiling the nation in blood,” etc., they struck their hands on the table. Whereupon I told them that I was the man whom that charge was against, but I was as innocent of any such thing as a new-born child, and had brought it up myself; and some of my friends came up with me, without any guard.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

PART 2

'As yet they had not minded my hat, but now seeing it on, they said, “What, do you stand with your hat on!” I told them I did not so in any contempt of them. Then they commanded it to be taken off; and when they called for the marshal of the King’s Bench, they said to him, “You must take this man and secure him; but let him have a chamber, and not be put amongst the prisoners.”

“My lord,” said the marshal, “I have no chamber to put him into; my house is so full I cannot tell where to provide a room for him but amongst the prisoners.”

“Nay,” said the judge, “you must not put him amongst the prisoners.”
But when the marshal still answered that he had no other place wherein to put me, Judge Foster said to me, “Will you appear to-morrow about 10 o’clock at the King’s Bench bar in Westminster-Hall?”

'I said, “Yes, if the Lord gives me strength.”

'Then said Judge Foster to the other judge, “If he says Yes, and promises it, you may take his word;” so I was dismissed.'

Forwhat happened next at the Court of the King's Bench, see
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…

Taken from The Autobiography of George Fox
CHAPTER XIII.
In the First Year of King Charles. 1660.
https://ccel.org/ccel/fox_g/autob…

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"... Tom came to me, with whom I made even for my last clothes to this day ..."

His father has been very good about supplying appropriate work clothes. But poor old Pepys also spent a bundle on a velvet coat and mantle from Mr. Pym, only to have the Duke of Gloucester die, and mourning clothes became fashionable, so they are stashed away somewhere awaiting suitable occasions.
Probably just as well -- running around Whitehall looking like someone out of GQ Magazine wouldn't have helped his reputation at this stage anyways.
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…

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