Thursday 16 August 1660

This morning my Lord (all things being ready) carried me by coach to Mr. Crew’s, (in the way talking how good he did hope my place would be to me, and in general speaking that it was not the salary of any place that did make a man rich, but the opportunity of getting money while he is in the place) where he took leave, and went into the coach, and so for Hinchinbroke. My Lady Jemimah and Mr. Thomas Crew in the coach with him.

Hence to Whitehall about noon, where I met with Mr. Madge, who took me along with him and Captain Cooke (the famous singer) and other masters of music to dinner at an ordinary about Charing Cross where we dined, all paying their club. Hence to the Privy Seal, where there has been but little work these two days. In the evening home.

19 Annotations

First Reading

Todd Bernhardt  •  Link

Looks like the work at the Privy Seal is already tapering off ...

Sandwich's advice is obviously sound.

Paul Brewster  •  Link

"not the salary of any place that did make a man rich"
a longish footnote from L&M: “For almost all government servants, from ministers of state to doorkeepers, the incidental profits of office - fees, gratuities and douceurs [OED: A conciliatory present or gift; a gratuity or "tip"; a bribe] - amounted to much more than the official salary. Hence the high price of offices: a secretaryship of state sold for 10,000L; … a commissionership of the navy for 2,000L…. Pepys’s own prospective purchaser at 1,000L … (After Pepys’s tenure it was worth much more.) The system, though open to abuse, served a useful purpose by bringing salaries (fixed before the 16th-century inflation) to a reasonable level at a minimal cost to the government, and it was common to all European states. Nor did it necessarily lead to corruption.”

Paul Brewster  •  Link

Lady Jem/Lady Jemimah
L&M have it as Lady Jem. I presume that Wheatley spelled out what was probably written as 'Jem' in longhand. I think we're pretty safe with the URL pointing to the daughter as it does.

L&M also have "above Charing-cross" instead of "about Charing-cross".

Barbara  •  Link

I believe until at least the 1950s the doormen at the biggest London hotels (Grosvenor House, Dorchester etc) used to "buy" their position, relying on tips and, no doubt, some valuable inside information to give them an income.

David A.Smith  •  Link

"getting money while he is in the place"
Following up on Paul's note above: Sam has found his opportunity to ask Montagu about Mr. Man's offer, and Montagu has advised him to decline ... on purely economic grounds. I predict we will hear no more of such offer.

JWBlackburn  •  Link

L&M footnote:"Nor did it necessarily lead to corruptiuon". To me, this is disingenuous. Of course it did. One of the grevances directed at Geo.III in the Declaration of Independence was: "He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and to eat out their substance."

Todd Bernhardt  •  Link

re: "Nor did it necessarily lead to corruption"

JW, see the language they used -- they're not saying that corruption didn't happen; they're saying that it was not the simple cause-and-effect relationship that we think of today when we think of bribes and corruption. Keep in mind that there was Parlimentary oversight and investigations (some fair, some not, but with such "gifts" or bribes often looked upon as crimes), as Sam will find out several times after the diary ends.

vincent  •  Link

"...(in the way talking how good he did hope my place would be to me, and in general speaking that it was not the salary of any place that did make a man rich, but the opportunity of getting money while he is in the place ..."
Good practical advice one and all and a warning for the rest. Nuthink has changed? or has it? Oh! of course pure Altruism, naturally to run for publick Hoffice( 'ouse of privy? ) and spend so much of one's own money for a mere pittance. (new meaning for noble)

David A. Smith  •  Link

"Nor did it necessarily lead ..."
Following up on JW Blackburn's post, I think L&M are ingenuous, not dis-. Temptation doesn't NECESSARILY lead to sin, but it creates the possibility, and the heady secondary market in such offices indicates that not only is it a possibility, it's a *feature* of the office. The uncorrupted (by our standards) will be rare.
But, in citing evidence by tagging poor old George III from the Declaration, that's a low blow -- he came more than 115 years later than Our Sam, and much had changed, including the newfound taxability of colonies (and I say this as a Bostonian!).

Esme  •  Link

Bribery is an unfortunate reality in many countries."Free" health care is not really free if you have to give a gift to the gateman to get in, one to the clerk who manages the appointments and one to the pharmacist for dispensing the drugs.

Bribery always transfers money to those with power, much of it from those without power or anything much else.

Of course, many places eveolve a pretty standard scale for the "gifts" (or two scales -- another one for Westerners). This may help to disguise the damage -- you can view it as a tax paying for the functionary, as maybe L&M are. But real tax levels are set by other mechanisms than what the victims are willing to pay (hmm, maybe not).

vincent  •  Link

"Bribary" versus "incentives" Money is the honey(stickey stuff) of politics and big business; always follow the money trail. It is not wot yer earn it's wot yer keep.(loop 'oles)

Second Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

This day in Commons

Anniversary of the Restoration.…

The Bill for the perpetual Anniversary Thanksgiving on the Twenty-ninth Day of May, being ingrossed in Parchment, was read the Third time....And the said Bill...being put to the Question, passed.

Third Reading

MartinVT  •  Link

"in the way talking how good he did hope my place would be to me, and in general speaking that it was not the salary of any place that did make a man rich, but the opportunity of getting money while he is in the place"

So, at last Sam has brought up the still-pending matter of Mr. Man's offer of 1000L for Sam's Navy post — probably not directly, though. Maybe he asked an innocuous question like: What do you think the value of my office might be, if someone were to buy it, not that I'm considering that. Is Sam convinced by Montagu's words, or will he still need to think more about it?

Neil Wallace  •  Link

I've never visited the US, but family do, and it seems that the practice of greasing the palm of servants continues - tipping is absolutely essential for even the most ordinary of services such as carrying a plate of food to a table.
That's different, some would say.
Oh really, say I.

Charles Miller  •  Link

I was on a group visit to Boston and environs this May, the tipping culture is almost aggressive, expected for the smallest service. The payment machines suggest three levels of tip, which are then taxed along with the rest of the bill. The rather gruff coach driver apparently expected a tip north of $1000 for his three part days work - he didn’t get it, but still had one I’d call generous. Contrast this to France where the opposite has occurrd and tipping is disappearing..

Mountain Man  •  Link

In many places in Europe like Austria, servers and the like are paid decent wages that they can live on and even have formal training. Servers in the US are paid almost nothing, sometimes below minimum wage, and are expected to live on tips, which are supposedly taxed, too. This is not a great system but explains the surprise of European visitors at high expected tips, like high sales taxes added to every purchase.

William Crosby  •  Link

Of the many entries that I recall vividly this one with the advice of Lord Sandwich:
"not the salary of any place that did make a man rich" is the one that I find most prophetic for Sam--especially considering where he starts and where he ends his diary in astonishing wealth.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

"The Restoration in Scotland followed that in England. The commission which had ruled the country since the Cromwellian conquest was replaced in August 1660 by the committee of estates much as it had existed in 1651.
As in England, the principal appointments were of those who had contributed to royalist counsels during the exile: the earl of Middleton, close to Clarendon, was made commissioner to the parliament, and the earl of Glencairn was made lord chancellor; but senior figures in the kirk party were advanced as well, including Lord Rothes, to be lord president, and Lord Crawford, to be lord treasurer.
The John Maitland, 2nd Earl of Lauderdale, the remaining leader of the Engagers of 1648, was appointed Secretary of State for Scotland.
But the leader of the kirk party and the principal figure in the Scottish government in 1650–51, the marquess of Argyll, was not only deliberately excluded, but arrested and imprisoned, a sacrifice to Charles II's own bitter memories of his treatment in Scotland.
[SPOILER: Argyll will be executed in May 1661, one of the few exempted from a general indemnity.]"…

I post this today because:
"E. of Midd. Leave to be absent.
ORDERED, That the Earl of Midd. hath Leave to be absent for a few Days."…

If this is connected, Middleton will be gone for a lot longer than a few days.


Sandwich has no such permission for a Leave of Absence. There was a 5/. a day fine for no shows. What is he up to?

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

I'm wrong -- Sandwich knew he was going OOT, and got permission the day before he saw Pepys (i.e. the 14th).
I'd still like to know why he left -- maybe he had a significant exchange when he accompanied Charles II at lunch the other day, and decided to retire gracefully before anything escallated?
Did he realize he was going to be challenging Lord High Admiral James, Duke of York, during Admiralty meetings, and chose not to play second fiddle?
Maybe he ran out of money and needed his Navy bills to be paid?

Does anyone have his Memoires -- what do they say?

Wiki says:
"..., on 12 July 1660, he was created Baron Montagu of St. Neots, Viscount Hinchingbrooke, and Earl of Sandwich. Charles II also made him a Knight of the Garter and appointed him Master of the Great Wardrobe, Admiral of the narrow seas (the English Channel and southern North Sea), and Lieutenant Admiral to The Duke of York, Lord High Admiral of England."

In 1661: "He carried St. Edward's staff at Charles' subsequent coronation. Edward Hyde, 1st Earl of Clarendon, who liked and admired Sandwich, wrote that the conferring of these honours caused much resentment among those Royalists who had gone into exile with their King, and regarded Sandwich as a "diehard" Cromwellian; yet adds that his charm of manner made it almost impossible to dislike him."…
So that doesn't hint at a serious falling-out with Charles at least.

Maybe Sandwich has only gone for the weekend, and I'm reading way too much into this? ... we shall see.

Log in to post an annotation.

If you don't have an account, then register here.