Saturday 10 December 1664
Lay long, at which I am ashamed, because of so many people observing it that know not how late I sit up, and for fear of Sir W. Batten’s speaking of it to others, he having staid for me a good while. At the office all the morning, where comes my Lord Brunkard with his patent in his hand, and delivered it to Sir J. Minnes and myself, we alone being there all the day, and at noon I in his coach with him to the ’Change, where he set me down; a modest civil person he seems to be, but wholly ignorant in the business of the Navy as possible, but I hope to make a friend of him, being a worthy man.
Thence after hearing the great newes of so many Dutchmen being brought in to Portsmouth and elsewhere, which it is expected will either put them upon present revenge or despair, I with Sir W. Rider and Cutler to dinner all alone to the Great James, where good discourse, and, I hope, occasion of getting something hereafter.
After dinner to White Hall to the Fishery, where the Duke was with us.
So home, and late at my office, writing many letters, then home to supper and to bed. Yesterday come home, and this night I visited Sir W. Pen, who dissembles great respect and love to me, but I understand him very well.
Major Holmes is come from Guinny, and is now at Plymouth with great wealth, they say.
21 Annotations
First Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
Pending Dirk Van de Putte, more of Sandwich's future mail recorded in the Carte Calendar
Hugh Salisbury to Sandwich
Written from: Portsmouth
Date: 10 December 1664
Shelfmark: MS. Carte 75, fol(s). 269
Document type: Holograph
Has received orders from the Council as to the adjudication of certain Dutch prizes and the transport of their seamen. Requests his Lordship to order communication of the needful papers, and to appoint a ship for the duty assigned.
-----------------------------------------
William Coventry to Sandwich
Written from: St James's
Date: 10 December 1664
Shelfmark: MS. Carte 75, fol(s). 271-272
Document type: Holograph
Suggests that it were good to stifle, at the beginning, "the precedent of Englishmen claiming Dutch ships". The Lord Admiral approves of the hiring of warehouses for the lodging of captured seamen. The King's resolution about the Guinea Voyage is still undetermined. Suggest, in a PS., the utility of telling the Dutch seamen that "the taking their ships is an effect of De Witt's counsells in sending De Ruyter to Guinea contrary to Treaty, and of their stopping a ship of masts, coming out of Sweden into England". ...
http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/s…
Terry Foreman • Link
Things are touchy, no?; it seems Mr. Coventry believes there's been a hasty rush to all-out hostility against any Dutch at sea.
What hath Holmes wrought by his actions in Guinea?!!
jeannine • Link
Meanwhile, this goes under the category of 'Dead Men Don't Tell Lies' (or much of anything else for that matter)
“The Navy White Book” from “Samuel Pepys and the Second Dutch War” (transcribed by Matthews and Knighton, edited by Latham)
Dec. 10. 1664. Corruption in the officers of the Elias (lately lost) in charging all clothes on the dead men. Upon examination of the account which Capt. Hill, James Coleman, master and Henry Miller, boatswain, of the Eliza, lately cast away in her coming home from New England (and they being the only surviving officers of the ship) did give of clothes issued during the voyage before the ship was lost – which account they did give in behalf of the slopseller – the number of men borne in their book being 119, whereof 21 were saved, 12 had been discharged and 86 were drowned. They do charge not one rag of clothes upon any of the saved or discharged men, non of them owning a farthing received of clothes [note: slops were paid for by money docked from the seamen’s wages], and these officers confessing they could not disprove them; and yet of the drowned men they could charge clothes upon 56 of the 86 (the rest of them also, God knowing who they were, being cleared of clothes) to a very penny every man, some men twice or thrice as much as another. The whole amounting to 90£. 14s. 11d. And yet they themselves do to me confess that they had no rule either of papers, observation, memory or anything else to go by in this account, but only guess – which is the most ignorant piece of false dealing that ever I saw in my life. And themselves afterwards did confess it, and desire the paper might be burned, for they confess their ignorance and that it was nothing else, for it could be no profit to them to make it so. But what they might have to do with the slopsellers in this is easy to think.
jeannine • Link
And as for Lord Sandwich
10th. Saturday. Afternoon I weighed out of Stokes Bay and came to an anchor off Gilkicker Point for more conveniency.
From “Journal of the Earl of Sandwich” edited by R.C. Anderson
Robert Gertz • Link
"PPPPeeeeypppssss! For the love of God, man, rise and shine! Don't ye know there's a war on?! Say, there, Mistress Pepys? Isn't that slugabed of yours up yet?! Tell him to get his arse into his trousers and get about the King's business!"
Should I do it again where that crowd is...? a grinning Sir William hisses to chuckling clerks. 'Bout time Sir Will gave it to the little...
***
"...a modest civil person he seems to be, but wholly ignorant in the business of the Navy as possible, but I hope to make a friend of him, being a worthy man."
Heh, heh, heh...Can you say 'pidgeon'?
"Ah, Lord Brunkard...Would you mind signing this?"
***
"Yesterday come home, and this night I visited Sir W. Pen, who dissembles great respect and love to me, but I understand him very well."
Gotta tell ya Sam...Put life on line for England while you sat safe at home, juggling phony freight bills and chasing/forcing yourself on women poor enough to be somewhat at your mercy? Penn's not looking too bad...
Terry Foreman • Link
"comes my Lord Brunkard with his patent in his hand, and delivered it to Sir J. Minnes and myself,"
His patent as Navy Commissioner. We heard of Lord Brouncker's appointment on 18 November 1664: "This day I had a letter from Mr. Coventry, that tells me that my Lord Brunkard is to be one of our Commissioners, of which I am very glad, if any more must be." http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
cape henry • Link
"...and this night I visited Sir W. Pen, who dissembles great respect and love to me, but I understand him very well." Because, no doubt, the feelings are quite mutual.
(A tip o' th' hat to Jeannine for her wonderful spoof of
the Willie tune yesterday. I imagined it being sung by that Julio Iglasias guy.)
Pedro • Link
On this day...
Coventry writes to Holmes in reply to letter sent by him from Plymouth.
“I suppose after having begun so surely already you need no encouragement to siege and bring with you what Dutch you can. It is now the general order and therefore if you do it you shall not want paper for it when you come, if I cannot have it sent now which I shall endeavour.
Man of War by Ollard)
Pedro • Link
What hath Holmes wrought by his actions in Guinea?!!
It will be interesting to see how the characters in the Diary try to distance themselves from the actions of Holmes, but I believe that the expedition went according to plan.
Coventry was given the task of drawing up the draught instructions, and they did not differ from those signed by the Lord High Admiral, probably just what the King and Duke wanted to hear, and no one better man than Holmes chosen to carry them out.
He was to protect and promote the interests of the Royal Company. In general to maintain the right of the Company to trade where it pleased on the African coast, and he was specifically empowered to "take, sink or destroy such as oppose you and to send home such ships as you should take."
Williamson, the master of intelligence for the Secretary of State, had earlier in May wrote to Fanshawe...
"We expect to hear what is done between us in Guinea, something material no question, and we hope for the best."
Pedro • Link
Thence after hearing the great newes of so many Dutchmen being brought in to Portsmouth and elsewhere, which it is expected will either put them upon present revenge or despair,
"In November the English began a war of reprisals, justified by De Ruyter's seizures in Africa, and at the New Year had taken over one hundred ships, whose miserable crews besieged Van Goch's house at Chelsea."
(British Foreign Policy 1660-1672 by Feiling)
Pedro • Link
"which is the most ignorant piece of false dealing that ever I saw in my life."
There talks a well-dressed expert in creative accounting, who would never be seen in a slop-shop.
Michael Robinson • Link
"What hath Holmes wrought by his actions in Guinea?!!"
Holmes actions in Guinea were deniable by the English Crown as being those of the agent of a private trading company, despite the Duke and Coventry being prime movers in the Guinea Company. The Dutch always asserted, in similar manner, that the actions of the VOC were those of a private trading company, and as such the VOC was in no respect bound by international treaty agreements nor were the Dutch government responsible for any violations arising from its actions.
cgs • Link
Stokes Bay part of Portsmouth dock area, gave its name to the famed spot in the Antipedes
Second Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"hearing the great newes of so many Dutchmen being brought in to Portsmouth and elsewhere"
An abundance of stories. L&M quote this one as an example: 'We have so many Dutch here [Portsmouth] that the Sea man talke of learning the Language that they may know what a Hollander means when he call's for a Quarter': The Intelligencer, 12 December, p. 797.
Terry Foreman • Link
"Major Holmes is come from Guinny, and is now at Plymouth with great wealth, they say."
L&M note he had taken several prizes.
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Major Holmes is come from Guinny, and is now at Plymouth with great wealth, they say."
MAJOR Holmes, Pepys? Is that snarky reference an example of your animus against him because of the 'old business' -- whatever that was -- Holmes had attempted on Elizabeth? We are assured you get over it in later life -- how about making that now.
San Diego Sarah • Link
Could someone explain Jeannine's post from the Navy White Book about clothes and slops please.
Terry Foreman • Link
SLOPS
From the Glossary
Phil Gyford on 16 Mar 2006 • Link • Flag
L&M define this as "seamen's ready made clothes".
Answers.com says:
1. slops Articles of clothing and bedding issued or sold to sailors.
2. slops Short full trousers worn in the 16th century.
3. A loose outer garment, such as a smock or overalls.
4. slops Chiefly British. Cheap, ready-made garments.
[Middle English sloppe, a kind of garment, from Old English -slop (in oferslop, surplice).]
[There is more here:
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
San Diego Sarah • Link
Thanks, Terry. Sometime I need links for the annotations!
My understanding of this entry is:
Capt. Hill, James Coleman, master and Henry Miller, boatswain, survived the sinking of the Eliza. They went to the slopseller and got a copy of the invoice for the clothes delivered before sailing for the 119 men, so it could be paid.
Pepys compared the invoice with the charge-backs logged to individual men's accounts (and therefore taken out of the men's pay).
Of the 21 men saved from the Elias, not one had a draw on his pay for slops/clothing.
But 56 of the 86 drowned men were logged as needing clothing.
The officers confessed they could not prove their own statistics, and asked for the accounting to be destroyed. (Presumably the ship's logs went down with the ship.)
Pepys suspects they were getting a kick-back from the slopseller for putting this invoice through for full payment.
Seems to me the slopseller should be paid in full. This is a cost of doing business for the Navy, surely. And Pepys now has a moral indignation about being compensated for getting payments through the system? HA!
Sasha Clarkson • Link
"I hope to make a friend of him, being a worthy man."
When he does make a friend of him, he starts spelling his name properly in the diary, as 'Brouncker' instead of 'Brunkard' I often whether rhyming him with 'drunkard' is Sam's private joke to himself?
Chris Squire UK • Link
Re: ‘slops’:
‘slop, n.1 < Of obscure history . . ’
. . 4. a. pl. Wide baggy breeches or hose, of the kind commonly worn in the 16th and early 17th cent.; loose trousers, esp. those worn by sailors .. .
. . 1656 tr. J. A. Comenius Latinæ Linguæ Janua Reserata: Gate Lat. Tongue Unlocked xxxviii. §382 Below the girdle are the breeches, that is, either slops,..or trusses somwhat strait . .
5. a. pl. Ready-made clothing and other furnishings supplied to seamen from the ship's stores; hence, ready-made, cheap, or inferior garments generally.
. . 1663 S. Pepys Diary 16 Mar. (1971) IV. 74 Advising upon the business of Slopps, wherein the seaman is so much abused by the pursers . . ‘
(OED)