Tuesday 5 April 1664

Up very betimes, and walked to my cozen Anthony Joyce’s, and thence with him to his brother Will, in Tuttle Street, where I find him pretty cheery over [what] he was yesterday (like a coxcomb), his wife being come to him, and having had his boy with him last night. Here I staid an hour or two and wrote over a fresh petition, that which was drawn by their solicitor not pleasing me, and thence to the Painted chamber, and by and by away by coach to my Lord Peterborough’s, and there delivered the petition into his hand, which he promised most readily to deliver to the House today. Thence back, and there spoke to several Lords, and so did his solicitor (one that W. Joyce hath promised 5l. to if he be released). Lord Peterborough presented a petition to the House from W. Joyce: and a great dispute, we hear, there was in the House for and against it. At last it was carried that he should be bayled till the House meets again after Easter, he giving bond for his appearance. This was not so good as we hoped, but as good as we could well expect. Anon comes the King and passed the Bill for repealing the Triennial Act, and another about Writs of Errour. I crowded in and heard the King’s speech to them; but he speaks the worst that ever I heard man in my life worse than if he read it all, and he had it in writing in his hand. Thence, after the House was up, and I inquired what the order of the House was, I to W. Joyce, with his brother, and told them all. Here was Kate come, and is a comely fat woman. I would not stay dinner, thinking to go home to dinner, and did go by water as far as the bridge, but thinking that they would take it kindly my being there, to be bayled for him if there was need, I returned, but finding them gone out to look after it, only Will and his wife and sister left and some friends that came to visit him, I to Westminster Hall, and by and by by agreement to Mrs. Lane’s lodging, whither I sent for a lobster, and with Mr. Swayne and his wife eat it, and argued before them mightily for Hawly, but all would not do, although I made her angry by calling her old, and making her know what herself is. Her body was out of temper for any dalliance, and so after staying there 3 or 4 hours, but yet taking care to have my oath safe of not staying a quarter of an hour together with her, I went to W. Joyce, where I find the order come, and bayle (his father and brother) given; and he paying his fees, which come to above 2l., besides 5l. he is to give one man, and his charges of eating and drinking here, and 10s. a-day as many days as he stands under bayle: which, I hope, will teach him hereafter to hold his tongue better than he used to do. Thence with Anth. Joyce’s wife alone home talking of Will’s folly, and having set her down, home myself, where I find my wife dressed as if she had been abroad, but I think she was not, but she answering me some way that I did not like I pulled her by the nose, indeed to offend her, though afterwards to appease her I denied it, but only it was done in haste. The poor wretch took it mighty ill, and I believe besides wringing her nose she did feel pain, and so cried a great while, but by and by I made her friends, and so after supper to my office a while, and then home to bed. This day great numbers of merchants came to a Grand Committee of the House to bring in their claims against the Dutch. I pray God guide the issue to our good!

27 Annotations

Terry F   Link to this

A day full of women for/not for SP

Lady Peters (via W. Joyce's incarceration), Will Joyce's wife, the two "fat" women -- Betty Lane and Kate Joyce, "Anth. Joyce's wife" -- and, of course, Elizabeth, whom he torments out of jealousy -- his imagination working overtime -- and because Mrs. Lane left him horny. And, anyway, the Joyce biz has him out of sorts altogether.

Patricia   Link to this

Miserable cur! He sits with Mrs. Lane & Co. eating lobster, for 3 or 4 hours (!) and then is jealous in case Elizabeth has been out & about. I take it his oath about not being with her more than a quarter of an hour means "alone with her"; otherwise how could he say his oath is still safe after a stay of this length?

Roboto   Link to this

How about that nose pulling so in so?????

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"...where I find him pretty cheery over [what] he was yesterday (like a coxcomb), his wife being come to him, and having had his boy with him last night..."

Of course, Joyce was terrified. He has no powerful friend but his jerk of a cousin to protect him and regardless of a certain lack of stoutheartedness perhaps, it's still crudy that he should have to endure all this when he's the injured party.

Lady Peters to the wall when the Revolution comes...

By the way, Sam...Despite your famed record of heroism, I seem to recall you bursting into tears when Lord Sandwich was a mite put out with you. And cousin Ed was hardly like to toss you to the Black Rod.

Some of us will keep your sympathetic attitude in mind a few years down the road...(Spoiler)

...When you turn totally yellow with panic.

And kudos to your manliness in making your wife cry, pulling her nose. Like Rick with Mr. Ugatu, I'm truly "impressed" with you today. Pray Bess has the good heart to be there for you like Mrs. Joyce for Will should the time come.

Still, we all have our asinine days...As my wife can testify. (though please not here, darling...) And you have been there for Will when it might have been a little to your discredit.

***

cumsalisgrano   Link to this

Read the Gory details here; Kings thanks speech , Bills passed and the bail for Joyce. The king did not want to hear the details.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?com...

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"Her body was out of temper for any dalliance, and so after staying there 3 or 4 hours, but yet taking care to have my oath safe of not staying a quarter of an hour together with her,"

And about how long would the oath have held had her body been in temper for a little dalliance?

Paul Chapin   Link to this

"and so did his solicitor (one that W. Joyce hath promised 5l. to if he be released)"

Contingency fees are not a modern invention.

Terry F   Link to this

"Lord Peterborough presented a petition to the House from W. Joyce: and a great dispute, we hear, there was in the House for and against it. At last it was carried that he should be bayled till the House meets again after Easter, he giving bond for his appearance. This was not so good as we hoped, but as good as we could well expect. Anon comes the King and passed the Bill for repealing the Triennial Act, and another about Writs of Errour. I crowded in and heard the King's speech to them; but he speaks the worst that ever I heard man in my life worse than if he read it all, and he had it in writing in his hand."

Interesting that Pepys has the House of Lords dealing with W.Joyce first; but the House of Lords Journal has it latterly.

Terry F   Link to this

"the Bill for repealing the Triennial Act, and another about Writs of Errour"

The first Bill has been discussed well, but the second not, viz., "2. An Act for preventing of Abatements of Writs of Errors upon Judgements in the Exchequer."

A writ of error is a document from a higher jurisdiction bearing an order to a lower jurisdiction to review a proceeding for the sake of possible correcting a legal error in it (to summarize http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/w060.htm ).

I gather this Bill is designed to preclude the Exchequer's judgments from being immune to reviews being ordered.

Or...?!

Todd Bernhardt   Link to this

"although I made her angry by calling her old, and making her know what herself is"

Seems that Elizabeth is not the only one Sam insults today. No wonder Betty's "body was out of temper for any dalliance"...

Dave   Link to this

I have been trying to think of a modern day Pepysian character, he would not be a good husband, a philanderer, ambitious, with powerful political allies, intelligent and a coward. I have one person in mind but am not sure about libel laws. Still, we must remind ourselves that if SP had been the perfect husband with a saintly persona, what a boring diary we would have.

Don McCahill   Link to this

Was SP a bad husband? By today's standards, certainly. But in those times, his actions might have been the norm for a young man.

A. De Araujo   Link to this

"Her body was out of temper for any dalliance"
Sam, I was going to correct you and say "her mind", but then body and and mind are one and the same,right?

Bradford   Link to this

A sour state of self-centered mind, where everyone else---from Mrs. Lane to the King He Serves to Elizabeth---are all of inferior make.

Terry F   Link to this

"Her body was out of temper for any dalliance"

Was Mrs. Betty in her ****** ?

Nix   Link to this

Review of a promising new book --

OFFAL & ORDURE
Hubbub: Filth, Noise and Stench in England, 1600-1770
By Emily Cockayne
(Yale University Press 355pp £25)

http://www.literaryreview.co.uk/hart_03_07.html

cape henry   Link to this

"...but he speaks the worst that ever I heard man in my life worse than if he read it all, and he had it in writing in his hand."

One could get the impression here of a man disengaged both from the subject of the speech and the audience who hears it. This observation by Pepys is very unflattering to Charles II on many levels.

Of course, as many have noted here, Pepys goes on to be very unflattering about himself and I concur heartily with Patricia.

Dave   Link to this

Thanks to Nix for the link.
Isnt it strange that Pepys never mentions the disgusting smells or filth that must have been prevalent in London? The nearest I have read to such a description is when he visited a "dirty street"
Could Londoners really have become so used to the sights and smells that it never merits a mention?

Dan Jenkins   Link to this

'Tis not so strange to my mind. Folk can get accustomed to most anything and then live with it without apparent awareness.

Personal anecdote to point: When I was a child my folk visited a cousin who lived in a northern papermaking town. After hours of driving through beautiful scenery on a sunny day, a dreadful stench permeated the air miles before we reached the town. A yellow fog lay across the road ahead as we descended into the valley; the town itself could not be seen. Once we entered the dense cloud of effluvium, each breath drawn was a choking gasp bringing nausea. Tears ran down my face. The beautiful blue sky was now a sullen yellow.

Our cousin welcomed us, opined it was pleasant weather and invited us in for freshly baked cake!

jeannine   Link to this

"One could get the impression here of a man disengaged both from the subject of the speech and the audience who hears it. This observation by Pepys is very unflattering to Charles II on many levels."

Sam, and others of the time, would have similar observations of Charles II from time to time. He was not well respected as a leader in this sense. Although he had the intellect and skills to do the job well, he is characterized as disinterested in doing it and would prefer his sports, horse racing and his women. Sam, may be similar to Charles in his love for the ladies, his desire for 'nice things' , etc. but Sam is not lazy and would never be unprepared for a public appearance, so I would imagine this really gets under his skin to watch.

JonTom Kittredge   Link to this

"Her body was out of temper"
Does that mean she was having her period?

JonTom Kittredge   Link to this

Sorry, I see that Terry F has already asked the question: "Was Mrs. Betty in her ****** ?"

JonTom Kittredge   Link to this

"Interesting that Pepys has the House of Lords dealing with W.Joyce first; but the House of Lords Journal has it latterly."
It is interesting, but SP often puts things down in the order he remembers them, rather than the order they occured.

More to the point in this case, I don't think that he was actually present. It sounds like he hung around outside waiting to hear the result, and relying on the actual members for an account of what happened.

I'm a little confused, because he was definitely in the House for part of the sitting -- "I crowded in and heard the King's speech to them" (did the Lords have a visitors' gallery then) -- but he also says, "Thence, after the House was up, and I inquired what the order of the House was." So I guess he was there for the royal speech, but maybe the turned visitors out for their regular business.

cumsalisgrano   Link to this

?.."So I guess he was there for the royal speech, but maybe the turned visitors out for their regular business"
According to the HofL , the seated Barons spirtual and earthly, were excused from the proceedings when the matter of a lady being insulted by one of the lowly merchants case came before the bench, so it could be assumed all the visitors be removed too.

cumsalisgrano   Link to this

Daily Smut: Headline: Batten battens down for for 3 weeks, we wonder where?
Leave of Absence.

" Ordered, That Sir Wm. Batten, being to attend his Majesty's Service, have the Leave of this House to be absent for Three Weeks.
Leave of Absence."

Crown needs and wants more efficient collection of monies so that he can more more dignity when he deals with the Continent..
"Crown Revenue.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, to take into Consideration the Bill for the better collecting and levying of the additional Revenue, established on his Majesty, his Heirs and Successors, for the better Support of his and their Crown and Dignity."

From: 'House of Commons Journal Volume 8: 5 April 1664', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 8: 1660-1667 (1802), pp. 543-44. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?com.... Date accessed: 12 April 2007.

Pedro   Link to this

In the absence of Dirk...

Duke of York to Ormond
Written from: Whitehall
Date: 5 April 1664
Shelfmark: MS. Carte 43, fol(s). 353
Document type: Original; subscribed & signed

It is not the Duke's wish that in virtue of the instructions recently given on his behalf by the King, any distrubance should be offered to Sir William Penn, in respect of his custodium-lands in Ireland.

cumsalisgrano   Link to this

"...Anon comes the King and passed the Bill for repealing the Triennial Act..." So Charles can be like Papa and forget having a parliament and rule as a king should, unencumbered with lesser folk messing up his gifts to the ladies.
Carlos fails to remember when Papa failed to consult or have Parliament sit for eleven years 1629- 1640 -a nice vacation called the Inter-regnum [1637-1644,1645-1649,1649-1660].
Fortunately for the Hoi Polloi and and some others, Charles did not get all that he desired, unlimited access to wealth unlike the Sun King.
In my 'umbly opinion, If Charles had got his full wish then the future would have been different, not unsimilar to the fun and games at the Bastille.

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