Sunday 16 September 1660

(Sunday). To Dr. Hardy’s church, and sat with Mr. Rawlinson and heard a good sermon upon the occasion of the Duke’s death. His text was, “And is there any evil in the city and the Lord hath not done it?”

Home to dinner, having some sport with Wm. [Hewer], who never had been at Common Prayer before.

After dinner I alone to Westminster, where I spent my time walking up and down in Westminster Abbey till sermon time with Ben. Palmer and Fetters the watchmaker, who told me that my Lord of Oxford is also dead of the small-pox; in whom his family dies, after 600 years having that honour in their family and name. From thence to the Park, where I saw how far they had proceeded in the Pell-mell, and in making a river through the Park, which I had never seen before since it was begun. Thence to White Hall garden, where I saw the King in purple mourning for his brother.1

So home, and in my way met with Dinah, who spoke to me and told me she had a desire to speak too about some business when I came to Westminster again. Which she spoke in such a manner that I was afraid she might tell me something that I would not hear of our last meeting at my house at Westminster.

Home late, being very dark. A gentleman in the Poultry had a great and dirty fall over a waterpipe that lay along the channel.

  1. “The Queen-mother of France,” says Ward, in his Diary, p. 177, “died at Agrippina, 1642, and her son Louis, 1643, for whom King Charles mourned in Oxford in purple, which is Prince’s mourning.”

25 Annotations

Paul Brewster   Link to this

walking up and down in Westminster Abbey all sermon time
L&M replace "till" with "all"

Paul Brewster   Link to this

she hath a desire to speak to [me] about some business when I come to Westminster again
L&M make a sensible conjecture and replace "too" with "to [me]"

Paul Brewster   Link to this

To Dr. Hardys church
L&M identify this a "St Dionis Backchurch, of which Nathaniel Hardy had recently been made Rector."

This chruch was destroyed in the Great fire and rebuilt.
A picture is available here:
http://www.londonancestor.com/views/vc-dionis.htm

The bells are described at this site:
http://london.lovesguide.com/dionis_backchurch.htm

My conjecture as to the location:
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=533078&...

Paul Brewster   Link to this

"And is there any evil in the city and the Lord hath not done it?"
L&M: “A loose recollection of Amos, iii. 6.”
Here’s the actual verse from the King James:
Amos 3:6 - Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Paul Brewster   Link to this

my Lord of Oxford is also dead of the small-pox
Not so fast.
Wheatley: "Aubrey De Vere, then twentieth Earl of Oxford, survived till March 12, 1702/3, when the title became extinct."
L&M: "The report was mistaken: the Earl (20th in succession since 1142) had smallpox ... but did not die until 1703, when the main line of the family did indeed become extinct for lack of legitimate male heirs. They had held the title for 500 (not 600) years. In 1626 the succession had been saved by a second cousin (the 20th Earl's father) who after some difficulty established his right to the title."
Sounds like a tenacious line ...

Paul Brewster   Link to this

Pell-mell, and in making a river through the Park,
L&M: "Work on the new Mall (replacing the old Pall Mall) was probably completed by January 1661, when a keeper was appointed. ... The canal and lake were also made at this time, the water being brought from the Thames. Soldiers were employed in the digging."

J Callan   Link to this

"something that I would not hear of our last meeting at my house at Westminster"
Hmmm... worried he might have got the young lady in trouble, perhaps? Rather confirms how far the "dallying" went, doesn't it?
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1660/09/04/#c7192

helena murphy   Link to this

The flying of black flags was also associated with death and mourning,although Pepys does not comment on their appearance in London for the death of the Duke of Gloucester. In February 1649 when Prince Rupert commanded the royalist fleet in Kinsale, Southern Ireland, he immediately hoisted black flags and sails on all ships in memory of the executed king.

Jenny Doughty   Link to this

"something that I would not hear of our last meeting at my house at Westminster"

So she obviously didn’t say no, or he wouldn’t have been worried about any possible consequences. Am I correct in thinking Diana Crisp was unmarried at this point? It was much easier for married women not to worry about consequences, of course. Good job they hadn’t invented DNA testing then.

Brian G McMullen   Link to this

Paul -

The location you gave for St.Dionis is proved out by the Rocque map. The link is:

http://www.motco.com/Map/81002/SeriesSearchPlat...

and the church is seen on the left side of the map about halfway down.

Mary   Link to this

Naughty Dinah

is by no means married. The daughter of Pepys' Axe Yard neighbour and friend, Mrs. Crisp.

David A. Smith   Link to this

"something that I would not hear"
Uh oh.
What lawyers would call "an admission against interest," this is hard to construe in any way *other* than Sam worries Dinah will tell him she's pregnant. O the perfidious ways of men....
Good catches, J and Jenny and Mary.

Glyn   Link to this

Come on, guys! - it was only 12 days ago, that's got to be too soon for her to know that. Surely she wouldn't know for at least a month.

Anyway, have the historians yet established which of Samuel or Elizabeth were infertile (or both)?

If it was Samuel who was infertile, then we with hindsight know that Diana was NOT pregnant by him - so what else might she be wanting to discuss? Asking money from Sam perhaps (?), which would always be a source of great discomfort to him. Anyway, he might be just as uncomfortable about kisses and cuddles if Diana wanted to confess to Elizabeth (or am I remembering an episode synopsis from 'Days of Our Lives')?

Laura Brown   Link to this

Modern-day doctors with all the physical evidence in front of them often can't figure out why a couple can't have children -- so it's probably a bit overambitious to try to diagnose the Pepyses now. The only clue is that, to the best of my knowledge, Pepys did not father a child by anyone else.

There's no question, though, who would have been blamed for the infertility at the time. Barrenness was almost always considered to be the wife's 'fault' unless there was compelling evidence to the contrary (for example, if she had had children with a previous husband).

A. De Araujo   Link to this

"Pepys'infertlity" seems like I read somewhere that SP was infertile as a result of having had that operation for the stone in his bladder;

Laura Brown   Link to this

As to whether Diana could have suspected she was pregnant at this point -- a pregnant woman does indeed miss her period 11 to 16 days after conception. Pregnancy would not necessarily have been detected so early in Pepys's day, but it was possible (think back to the very beginning of the diary, when Pepys hopes that his wife is pregnant because she's a few weeks late).

Linda Pollock's book 'A Lasting Relationship,' a history of parents and children from the 17th through the 19th centuries, contains a section about how women determined that they were pregnant. It usually was not considered a sure thing until the mother felt the child moving in the womb. Some guessed it earlier, but sometimes the opposite was true -- Pollock cites the case of one woman who had mysterious stomach discomfort and wondered if she could possibly be with child. Her suspicions were confirmed three WEEKS later when she gave birth to a healthy son.

Barbara   Link to this

A De Auarjo remembers correctly - in the L & M Companion, under Health, it is thought that the operation for the stone probably damaged Sam's ducts so he became sterile without being impotent. A pity he didn't know that: it would have saved him considerable worry from time to time.

language hat   Link to this

"something that I would not hear of our last meeting"
I don't think it's necessary to jump to fears of pregnancy. Anyone who's ever wound up in, er, sudden intimacy with someone they do not see as a mate for life (and perhaps would not have gotten intimate with if it hadn't been for that last drink) is likely to understand the feeling: "Oh god, he/she's not going to act like we're a couple now, I hope..."

Glyn   Link to this

language hat is probably right. Pepys seems happy to have casual liaisons and flirtations with women such as Betty Martin but his long-term commitment is to his wife.

David A. Smith   Link to this

"Which she spoke in such a manner"
I hope Glyn, Language Hat and others are right, and that he's afraid of embarrassing protestations of love rather than of missed cycles ... but this entry sure *sounds* guilty.

Mary   Link to this

Dinah's plan?

Could be the exercise of entrapment. Suppose that she was already pregnant (and knew it) at the time that she dallied with Pepys, and that Sam represents a much better financial proposition (rising man) as a putative father than the real father at this point. Highly speculative as a scenario, but knot unknown, surely?

J Callan   Link to this

"it was only 12 days ago, that

Bill   Link to this

"I saw the King in purple mourning for his brother."

The colours of the mourning dress are different in different countries. In Europe, the ordinary colour for mourning is black; in China, it is white; in Turky, blue, or violet; in Ethiopia, brown; in Egypt, it is yellow; and kings and cardinals mourn in purple.
---A new complete English dictionary. J. Marchant, 1760.

Tonyel   Link to this

“And is there any evil in the city and the Lord hath not done it?”

Seems a little unfair to blame God for everything - or am I missing the point?

Frank G.   Link to this

"Seems a little unfair to blame God for everything - or am I missing the point?"

Either God is omnipotent or he's not, surely?

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