Monday 9 December 1661

To Whitehall, and thence to the Rhenish wine-house, where I met Mons. Eschar and there took leave of him, he being to go this night to the Downs towards Portugall, and so spent all the morning. At noon to dinner to the Wardrobe; where my Lady Wright was, who did talk much upon the worth and the desert of gallantry; and that there was none fit to be courtiers, but such as have been abroad and know fashions. Which I endeavoured to oppose; and was troubled to hear her talk so, though she be a very wise and discreet lady in other things. From thence Mr. Moore and I to the Temple about my law business with my cozen Turner, and there we read over T. Trice’s answer to my bill and advised thereupon what to do in his absence, he being to go out of town to-morrow. Thence he and I to Mr. Walpole, my attorney, whom I never saw before, and we all to an alehouse hard by, and there we talked of our business, and he put me into great hopes, but he is but a young man, and so I do not depend so much upon his encouragement. So by coach home, and to supper, and to bed, having staid up till 12 at night writing letters to my Lord Sandwich and all my friends with him at sea, to send to-morrow by Mons. Eschar, who goes tomorrow post to the Downs to go along with the fleet to Portugall.

32 Annotations

First Reading

A. De Araujo  •  Link

"and the desert of gallantry"
It is better than the gallantry of the desert!

Bradford  •  Link

"there was none fit to be courtiers, but such as have been abroad and know fashions."
Indispensable to the smooth running of government, the maintenance of fiscal responsibility, and the defense of the nation from bellicose foreigners. Ooops---wouldn't they be the height of fashion themselves?

Stolzi  •  Link

"but he is but a young man"

Sam himself was only about 33!

Sean  •  Link

"we all to an alehouse hard by, and there we talked of our business . . . ."
Sounds like a 17th century version of a three martini lunch. I hope Sam's lawyer picked up the check.

dirk  •  Link

"my attorney, whom I never saw before"

Sounds strange to someone not familiar with the British lawyer system...

vicenzo  •  Link

There be age and there be age:["... he is but a young man...'] 15 years of trudging the kings highway[street] versus 8 years since getting ones baculum[bacterium] means one has twice the experience.

Paul Chapin  •  Link

young man
Actually, Sam was just 28. Makes one wonder how young the attorney was.

andy  •  Link

Mons Eschar -
his journey seemed to slip during this extract from going to the Downs for Portugal "this night" at the beginning of the entry to "tomorrow" at the end of it. I wonder when Sam wrote this entry. The Downs themselves are at Plymouth (where the fleet is) I assume.

Interesting construction - Sam uses "post" in the last sentence to mean Eschar's really going to Portugal but he's calling in at the Downs.

Australian Susan  •  Link

The Downs
I thought they were off Kent - by the Goodwin Sands??? Or is this just one of several areas called The Downs and was this a generic term for protected waters, safe for shipping to lie off at anchorage?? Shipping experts, please!

Mary K McIntyre  •  Link

Attorney but a young man – even if Sam is only 28, he may be nervous about whether this guy has the necessary professional experience & judgement. I'd be looking for a wily old geezer, myself... (not that I'm 28, but)

Pedro.  •  Link

The Downs.

The Downs in general (South) would refer to area along the rolling chalk downs of Sussex and Hampshire, through the heart of the area that is eventually to become a new National Park.
And North Downs along chalk ridges and wooded downland of Surrey and Kent through Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty, grazing the southern edge of greater London and ending at the celebrated White Cliffs.
In particular this could be referring to the area around Portsmouth where Sam has made visits?

Pedro.  •  Link

Portsmouth.

Portsmouth, of course, is where the fleet returned with the Queen.

Stolzi  •  Link

Thanks all.

Don't know how I got my subtraction wrong in figuring Sam's age.

Now, as to the Downs, we're not talking hills here:

"THE DOWNS is also the name of a roadstead in the English Channel off Deal between the North and the South Foreland. It forms a favorite anchorage during heavy weather, protected on the east by the Goodwin Sands and on the north and west by the coast. It has depths down to 12 fathoms. Even during southerly gales some shelter is afforded, though under this condition wrecks are not infrequent."

http://68.1911encyclopedia.org/D/…

I believe Mons. E will take horses ("post") to the coast and then be rowed out to a ship anchored in the Downs.

The Downs are also mentioned in at least one version of that fine old sea song, "Spanish Ladies."

David  •  Link

It is still the case that gray hair on top is worth an additional $100/per in the litigation biz.

Clement  •  Link

"Which I endeavoured to oppose"

The last time Sam commented on Lady Wright's snobbery and professed disdain for unfashionable people he "said nothing to it"
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
I wonder if she intentionally provoked him for the pleasure of debate--it certainly seems within her--or if she was being mean-spirited to Sam, or perhaps cajoling him to better array his own wife, has Lady Montegu has directly advised him previously.

In any case I'm sure Sam was pleased to mount a defense for his more egalitarian sensibilities. He has few outlets for that part of his psyche these days, though they continue to inform his Naval reform policy initiatives.

Mary  •  Link

"post to The Downs"

I too took this to mean that Eschar was going by post-horse to The Downs; i.e. to a spot on the Kent coast whence he could be ferried out to his ship. Nothing to do with being posted in the military sense.

Ruben  •  Link

The Downs
We had an exhaustive explanation about The Downs a year ago.
Ships waited in The Downs for appropiate winds to sail to high seas.
That could take several days.
As Mary wrote you could ride from London to a place near The Downs or otherwise you could go there from London by water.

Ruben  •  Link

The Downs
the best annotation on The Downs
as posted by Mary on Tue 2 Sep 2003

An area of sea lying between the Thames Estuary and the Straits of Dover, protected by the Goodwin Sands from easterlies and by the land mass of Kent from westerlies. Hence a favoured (and often very crowded) holding point for merchant, and other, shipping that was awaiting a favourable wind for an outward voyage. (annot. 3 April 1660)

A. Hamilton  •  Link

the worth and the desert of gallantry

Can anyone shed light on this use of "desert"? Is the reference to a dearth or absence of gallantry (cf. H.L. Mencken, who called the American South "the Sahara of the Beaux Arts") or does the word amplify "worth", perhaps in the sense of deservingness?

Glyn  •  Link

I'd go for the first meaning, i.e. absence of gallantry = she thinks English men and women aren't as fashionably dressed or chic as the new arrivals from France and the rest of the Continent. England's been a bit of a backwater for years, with no copies of Vogue etc to show people what to wear.

Pepys is is from a family of tailors, so he may be taking this a little bit personally (and I wonder if Ms Wright knows of his background when she discussess this).

language hat  •  Link

desert
It means 'what you deserve.' No problem here.

vicenzo  •  Link

NIH 'not invented here' takes extreme positions.[A] If it be from Paris [or where ever] it must be fantastic or [B] if it be from Calais [or where ever ] it must be useless. It be a case of in the good old days syndrome "... who did talk much upon the worth and the desert of gallantry; and that there was none fit to be courtiers, but such as have been abroad and know fashions..." When 'eroes be 'eroes and de ladies be ladies, never this bad stuff. That is all one hears from the monday morning drinking wotever cliche.
Therefore in this case . Ah? those fops of Louis [the absolute monarch, the fore runner of Antoinette] are so emasculated they have servants for their servants to tie a Knot in ones epaulette.

Bradford  •  Link

"desert" = as Language Hat says:
L&M Companion, Large Glossary: "deservingness, value"

Maurie Beck  •  Link

Attorney but a young man

Not just experienced but connected. The legal system is a club where members are chummy. You don't want some wet-behind-the-ears lawyer who hasn't drunk port with the judges.

Second Reading

Terry Foreman  •  Link

"at night writing letters to my Lord Sandwich and all my friends with him at sea"

Samuel Pepys to Sandwich
Written from: Navy Office

Date: 9 December 1661

Shelfmark: MS. Carte 73, fol(s). 641

Document type: Holograph. Sealed with a crest.

The writer knows not of anything "but the slowness of money". With respect to a certain prize, the merchant concerned had conferred with Mr Coventry, before his Lordship's letter came to the writer's hands. At the Privy Seal Office, a patent has passed under Pepys' hand by which Mr Palmer is created Earl of Castlemayne, with remainder "to his heirs male by this Lady, & no other".
http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/s…

Terry Foreman  •  Link

Lords take up Dr. Pory versus Hardy, for taking up Archbishop Parker's Bones, and selling his Leaden Coffin.

Upon reading the Petition of Doctor Pory; complaining, "That Mathew Hardy being served with the former Order of this House, for his taking up the Bones of Archbishop Parker, and putting them into the same Place out of which he took them, and for his making up the Monument as it was; yet he neglects the doing of these Things:"

It is ORDERED, That this Business shall be taken into Consideration To-morrow Morning; and then some Person is to make Oath of the serving of the said Order upon Mathew Hardy.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/…

Matthew Parker (6 August 1504 – 17 May 1575) was Archbishop of Canterbury from 1559 until his death in 1575. He was also an influential theologian and arguably the co-founder (with Thomas Cranmer and Richard Hooker) of a distinctive tradition of Anglican theological thought. Parker was one of the primary architects of the Thirty-Nine Articles, the defining statements of Anglican doctrine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mat…

Parker was buried in his private chapel at Lambeth, where he had already caused his tomb to be placed; and his funeral, of which Strype has printed the ‘order,’ was honoured by a large and august following. An inscription, in Latin elegiacs, composed by Walter Haddon, was carved on the stone. This monument was, however, entirely destroyed in 1648, by the order of Colonel Scot the regicide, when Parker's remains were also disinterred and buried under a dunghill. After the Restoration Archbishop Sancroft caused them to be restored to their original resting-place, and composed an inscription, which he placed in the antechapel, recording both the act of desecration and the restoration of the monument. http://www.oxforddnb.com/template…

Chris Squire UK  •  Link

OED has:

‘downs . . 4. the Downs: the part of the sea within the Goodwin Sands, off the east coast of Kent, a famous rendezvous for ships. (It lies opposite to the eastern termination of the North Downs.)

a1460 Gregory's Chron. in Hist. Coll. Citizen London (Camden) 178 The vyntage come by londe ynne cartys unto London fro the Downys.
. . 1667 S. Pepys Diary 2 Jan. (1974) VIII. 1 To send all the ships we can possible to the Downes.
. . 1778 S. Whatley England's Gazetteer (ed. 2) Downs, a road on the coast of Kent, through which ships generally pass, in going out and returning home. It is 6 miles long between the North and South Foreland.’

Third Reading

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

Amidst discussion of Supply, fens drainage, and the restoration of lands and titles amongst themselves, the Lords received a fairly unusual notification:

Privilege - A Member put under restraint by the King.
Mr. Speaker informing this House, That the King's Majesty was pleased to send a Message to him, that he had restrained Mr. Lovelace, one of the Members of this House, who was going to fight a Duel;

Resolved, That those Members of this House, who are of his Majesty's honourable Privy Council, do return to his Majesty the humble Thanks of this House, for his Grace and Favour, in being so tender of the Privileges of this House, as to acquaint Mr. Speaker therewith.

Resolved, That the Serjeant attending this House, or his Deputy, do repair unto the Officer in whose Custody Mr. Lovelace, one of the Members of this House, now is, to demand the said Mr. Lovelace: And the said Officer, in whose Custody he is, is accordingly to deliver the said Mr. Lovelace to the Serjeant of this House, or his Deputy; who is to bring him to this House To-morrow Morning.

Confusingly there are 2 Lovelaces sitting as MPs in 1661, and they don't appear to be related. Neither bio mentions this event so I can't speculate who the duel was to be with:
Francis LOVELACE (1594-1664) of Canterbury, Kent and Gray's Inn at 67 seems a bit long in the tooth for dueling;
https://www.historyofparliamenton… and
Hon. John LOVELACE (c.1642-93), of Water Eaton, Oxon. and Hurley, Berks., is a much better candidate at 20. His election for Berkshire in 1661 under age was presumably a tribute to his father. He sat for 9 years in the Lower House of the Cavalier Parliament, but he was not active, serving on no more than 34 committees, ..." "‘A man of good natural parts, but of very ill and very loose principles’, Lovelace had already shown signs of inheriting his father’s alcoholic tendencies, ..." but the excitement of the 1670s, James II and the "Glorious" Revolution made him an active Whig and a member of the Green Ribbon Club. If only the Diary had continued!
https://www.historyofparliamenton…

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

ERROR -- that was a report of the Commons, not the Lords! My apologies.

@@@

But today the Lords discussed one of the more thorny issues of the day:

Bill to illegitimate the E. of Banbury.
Hodie 1a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act declaring Nicholas, called Earl of Banbury, to be illegitimate."

BACKSTORY: Before DNA testing, no one could be sure who was a child's father. Children legally belonged to the husband, even if they had been out of town and/or paternity was impossible to establish.

One example of the legal confusion this led to is the story of William Knollys, 1st Earl of Banbury, whose wife, Elizabeth Howard, was nearly 40 years his junior. Improbably she was the mother of two sons, Edward (1627–1645) and Nicholas (1631–1674), whose paternity gave rise to much dispute since they resembled her ex-fiance, Edward Vaux, 4th Lord Vaux, in whose house they were born.

Neither son was mentioned in the earl's will.

The widowed Elizabeth Howard Knollys, Countess of Banbury quickly married Lord Vaux after her bereavement.

In 1641 the law courts ruled that Edward Knollys was the 2nd Earl of Banbury. When he was killed in June 1645 his brother Nicholas Knollys took the title.

In the Convention Parliament of 1660 objection was taken to Nicholas Knollys, 3rd Earl of Banbury sitting in the House of Lords, and in 1661 he was not summoned to parliament.

If you follow the Lords archives, you'll be hearing more about this.

@@@

Bill to prevent the melting of Silver Coin.
Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, "An Act to prevent the Inconvenience that doth arise by melting the Silver Coin of this Realm."

Understandably Charles II wanted to take Commonwealth money out of circulation, and my guess is they had removed every mention of Kings James I and Charles I from the currency as well -- but there was a shortage of coinage, as we have discussed before, so the Lords wanted to slow down that change.

San Diego Sarah  •  Link

A shortage of coins is explained in an annotation to a letter of August 29, 1660:
https://www.pepysdiary.com/letter…
"The scarcity of money ... was occasioned by the decrepit state of the silver hammered coinage, much of which was clipped down, making nonsense of a system in which silver and gold denominations had to contain their denominational value in bullion. Hoarding, and export of coin to the Continental bullion market, compounded the problem."

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