Some research published in 2008, a few years after the first reading of this passage makes the case that the phrase "red herring" with the figurative meaning of something that distracts from the question at hand dates only from 1807 (Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red…). (And the whole idea that red (smoked) herrings were used to fool the hounds was disproved by Mythbusters in 2010.)
So Sam's "by the same token" (which DID have the same meaning back in 1659 as today) does not seem to be connected to the red herring. More likely, it's just an inelegant usage by Sam expressing the contradiction that his boot was mended but not mended.
RE" oliver, 2003: "I'm struck by the fact that both Pepys and Evelyn seem so matter of fact about touring the entirety of this great house and the grounds." -- And ensuing discussion indicating this was no uncommon...
Also, not mentioned previously, this particular visit was facilitated by the White Hart's innkeeper ("master of the house," "our landlord," who also shewed them the almshouse) who presumably did this regularly and probably got a good tip from Sam.
Paul Chapin, 2003: "the 3-legged stool (tri-pos) on which the Tripos sat"
Reminds me that today, aspiring humorists performing in comedy clubs still use a stool (more often four-legged) as their single and essential piece of stage furniture.
More, from the university library, on the origins and evolution of the word term tripos and the role of the Tripos on the stool: https://www.lib.cam.ac.uk/univers…
Quite a discussion 20 years ago for a short diary entry, regarding the question of whether the appreciation of the beauty of nature and rural landscapes is a culturally constructed dating from a later point in time, and not prevalent in Sam's day.
For a historically and geographically sweeping treatise on this question (phrased as: "When we see landscape, do we see nature or culture?"), I commend Simon Schama's 1995 book, Landscape and Memory.
"I met with Mr. Crew, who told me that my Lord was chosen by 73 voices, to be one of the Council of State. Mr. Pierpoint had the most, 101, and himself the next, too."
(a) As noted previously, "too" should be "100." (b) Crew is doing the telling, here, so "himself" refers to Crew, elected with 100 votes.
"the Club broke up very poorly, and I do not think they will meet any more." And according to Terry Foreman's post above, this was the Rota Club and did indeed cease meeting after Feb. 1660.
But just last month, on Jan. 9 (per Keith Wright, above), Sam "went with Muddiman to the Coffee-House, and gave 18d. to be entered of the Club." So it looks like he is out the price of admission?
To continue the digression, above, from 2003 regarding the Palmetto Pigeon Plant — it is STILL there, in Sumter, South Carolina, and its website (http://www.palmettopigeonplant.co…) is worth a visit if only (a) for its vintage circa 2003 design, and (b) for the flying squab that will accompany your cursor all over your screen on the site's homepage (on a computer, not on mobile). They sell live pigeons for research purposes, along with squab, Cornish hens, and poussin (small chickens).
I agree, we've got at least 3 dead turkeys today. And note the emphasis he places on Jane's refusal to do the deed: "could not get her m’d Jane by no means at any time to kill anything." -- could not -- by no means -- at any time -- anything
About those turkeys. I can't find anything previously about Mr. Sheply's bringing them to Mrs. Pepys. There is mention, however, on Jan. 19, that Pepys, Sheply, and Moore dined upon a turkey that day with Mrs. Jem. So maybe that one came from the same flock. In any event, the killing of multiple turkeys will yield a great quantity of meat — what's Mrs. P. planning to do with all that, in the absence of a freezer? Inquiring minds want to know.
Could "scholar" refer to the scullery sink? The scullery of the place would have been located out back, perhaps over or adjacent to the outhouse. So Sam (inelegantly) is saying he felt like pissing into the scullery sink.
Ed in 2003 wrote: "My only comment is that it seems as if Pepys didn't have a terribly stressful life. He sure had an abundance of time to eat, socialize,read and listen to recitals. I'm sure this isn't the whole picture, but it seems to be the one he presents in his journal."
Don't worry, Ed. Sam is just warming up here. Things will get more stressful from time to time.
"mighty neat" Certainly Pepys is not using "neat" in the sense of the "1970's affectation" meaning "cool." More likely he means the suit is orderly, well-made, elegant. He uses the word in this sense elsewhere in the diary, not only in relation to clothing but he also mentions a neat sermon, a neat dinner, a "neat coach, etc.
"2,560% increase over 333 years ~ 7.7%/year or about the same as stocks have appreciated in the US over the past century."
Not really... if you take compound interest into account, a rate of slightly under 1% per year would yield an increase of 2,560% over 333 years. Stocks beat silver by a factor of at least 7.
[In 2006 I was "Martin" commenting above. I can't get back in under that name since the email I was using at the time is defunct, so I made a new account]
Regarding the question of whether Pepys was writing for posterity, I'm Just circling back after all these years to say add this link: http://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/pres… relevant to the question of whether Pepys was writing for posterity. The speaker mentioned, Dr. Kate Loveman, appears to agree with the view of Todd Bernhardt expressed above.
Comments
Third Reading
About Tuesday 28 February 1659/60
MartinVT • Link
red herring
Some research published in 2008, a few years after the first reading of this passage makes the case that the phrase "red herring" with the figurative meaning of something that distracts from the question at hand dates only from 1807 (Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red…). (And the whole idea that red (smoked) herrings were used to fool the hounds was disproved by Mythbusters in 2010.)
So Sam's "by the same token" (which DID have the same meaning back in 1659 as today) does not seem to be connected to the red herring. More likely, it's just an inelegant usage by Sam expressing the contradiction that his boot was mended but not mended.
About Monday 27 February 1659/60
MartinVT • Link
RE" oliver, 2003: "I'm struck by the fact that both Pepys and Evelyn seem so matter of fact about touring the entirety of this great house and the grounds." -- And ensuing discussion indicating this was no uncommon...
Also, not mentioned previously, this particular visit was facilitated by the White Hart's innkeeper ("master of the house," "our landlord," who also shewed them the almshouse) who presumably did this regularly and probably got a good tip from Sam.
About Sunday 26 February 1659/60
MartinVT • Link
Paul Chapin, 2003: "the 3-legged stool (tri-pos) on which the Tripos sat"
Reminds me that today, aspiring humorists performing in comedy clubs still use a stool (more often four-legged) as their single and essential piece of stage furniture.
More, from the university library, on the origins and evolution of the word term tripos and the role of the Tripos on the stool: https://www.lib.cam.ac.uk/univers…
About Friday 24 February 1659/60
MartinVT • Link
Quite a discussion 20 years ago for a short diary entry, regarding the question of whether the appreciation of the beauty of nature and rural landscapes is a culturally constructed dating from a later point in time, and not prevalent in Sam's day.
For a historically and geographically sweeping treatise on this question (phrased as: "When we see landscape, do we see nature or culture?"), I commend Simon Schama's 1995 book, Landscape and Memory.
About Thursday 23 February 1659/60
MartinVT • Link
"I met with Mr. Crew, who told me that my Lord was chosen by 73 voices, to be one of the Council of State. Mr. Pierpoint had the most, 101, and himself the next, too."
(a) As noted previously, "too" should be "100." (b) Crew is doing the telling, here, so "himself" refers to Crew, elected with 100 votes.
About Monday 20 February 1659/60
MartinVT • Link
"the Club broke up very poorly, and I do not think they will meet any more." And according to Terry Foreman's post above, this was the Rota Club and did indeed cease meeting after Feb. 1660.
But just last month, on Jan. 9 (per Keith Wright, above), Sam "went with Muddiman to the Coffee-House, and gave 18d. to be entered of the Club." So it looks like he is out the price of admission?
About Wednesday 8 February 1659/60
MartinVT • Link
To continue the digression, above, from 2003 regarding the Palmetto Pigeon Plant — it is STILL there, in Sumter, South Carolina, and its website (http://www.palmettopigeonplant.co…) is worth a visit if only (a) for its vintage circa 2003 design, and (b) for the flying squab that will accompany your cursor all over your screen on the site's homepage (on a computer, not on mobile). They sell live pigeons for research purposes, along with squab, Cornish hens, and poussin (small chickens).
About Saturday 4 February 1659/60
MartinVT • Link
I agree, we've got at least 3 dead turkeys today. And note the emphasis he places on Jane's refusal to do the deed: "could not get her m’d Jane by no means at any time to kill anything."
-- could not
-- by no means
-- at any time
-- anything
About Saturday 4 February 1659/60
MartinVT • Link
About those turkeys. I can't find anything previously about Mr. Sheply's bringing them to Mrs. Pepys. There is mention, however, on Jan. 19, that Pepys, Sheply, and Moore dined upon a turkey that day with Mrs. Jem. So maybe that one came from the same flock. In any event, the killing of multiple turkeys will yield a great quantity of meat — what's Mrs. P. planning to do with all that, in the absence of a freezer? Inquiring minds want to know.
About Friday 20 January 1659/60
MartinVT • Link
Or more likely: I almost took a leak in the scullery.
About Friday 20 January 1659/60
MartinVT • Link
Could "scholar" refer to the scullery sink? The scullery of the place would have been located out back, perhaps over or adjacent to the outhouse. So Sam (inelegantly) is saying he felt like pissing into the scullery sink.
About Sunday 15 January 1659/60
MartinVT • Link
Ed in 2003 wrote:
"My only comment is that it seems as if Pepys didn't have a terribly stressful life. He sure had an abundance of time to eat, socialize,read and listen to recitals. I'm sure this isn't the whole picture, but it seems to be the one he presents in his journal."
Don't worry, Ed. Sam is just warming up here. Things will get more stressful from time to time.
Second Reading
About Friday 28 October 1664
MartinVT • Link
"mighty neat"
Certainly Pepys is not using "neat" in the sense of the "1970's affectation" meaning "cool." More likely he means the suit is orderly, well-made, elegant. He uses the word in this sense elsewhere in the diary, not only in relation to clothing but he also mentions a neat sermon, a neat dinner, a "neat coach, etc.
About Wednesday 19 October 1664
MartinVT • Link
"2,560% increase over 333 years ~ 7.7%/year or about the same as stocks have appreciated in the US over the past century."
Not really... if you take compound interest into account, a rate of slightly under 1% per year would yield an increase of 2,560% over 333 years. Stocks beat silver by a factor of at least 7.
About Friday 9 January 1662/63
MartinVT • Link
[In 2006 I was "Martin" commenting above. I can't get back in under that name since the email I was using at the time is defunct, so I made a new account]
Regarding the question of whether Pepys was writing for posterity, I'm Just circling back after all these years to say add this link: http://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/pres… relevant to the question of whether Pepys was writing for posterity. The speaker mentioned, Dr. Kate Loveman, appears to agree with the view of Todd Bernhardt expressed above.