Saturday 6 October 1666

Up, and having seen my brother in his cassocke, which I am not the most satisfied in, being doubtfull at this time what course to have him profess too soon. To the office and there busy about a list of the extraordinaries of the charge of the fleete this war; and was led to go to the office of the ordnance to be satisfied in something, and find their accounts and books kept in mighty good order, but that they can give no light, nor will the nature of their affairs permit it to tell what the charge of the ordnance comes to a man a month. So home again and to dinner, there coming Creed to me; but what with business and my hatred to the man, I did not spend any time with him, but after dinner [my] wife and he and I took coach and to Westminster, but he ‘light about Paul’s, and set her at her tailor’s, and myself to St. James’s, but there missing [Sir] W. Coventry, returned and took up my wife, and calling at the Exchange home, whither Sir H. Cholmly come to visit me, but my business suffered me not to stay with him. So he gone I by water to Westminster Hall and thence to St. James’s, and there found [Sir] W. Coventry waiting for me, and I did give him a good account to his mind of the business he expected about extraordinaries and then fell to other talke, among others, our sad condition contracted by want of a Comptroller;1 and it was his words, that he believes, besides all the shame and trouble he hath brought on the office, the King had better have given 100,000l. than ever have had him there. He did discourse about some of these discontented Parliament-men, and says that Birch is a false rogue, but that Garraway is a man that hath not been well used by the Court, though very stout to death, and hath suffered all that is possible for the King from the beginning. But discontented as he is, yet he never knew a Session of Parliament but he hath done some good deed for the King before it rose. I told him the passage Cocke told me of his having begged a brace of bucks of the Lord Arlington for him, and when it come to him, he sent it back again. Sir W. Coventry told me, it is much to be pitied that the King should lose the service of a man so able and faithfull; and that he ought to be brought over, but that it is always observed, that by bringing over one discontented man, you raise up three in his room; which is a State lesson I never knew before. But when others discover your fear, and that discontent procures favour, they will be discontented too, and impose on you. Thence to White Hall and got a coach and home, and there did business late, and so home and set up my little books of one of my presses come home gilt, which pleases me mightily, and then to bed. This morning my wife told me of a fine gentlewoman my Lady Pen tells her of, for 20l. per annum, that sings, dances, plays on four or five instruments and many other fine things, which pleases me mightily: and she sent to have her see her, which she did this afternoon; but sings basely, and is a tawdry wench that would take 8l., but [neither] my wife nor I think her fit to come.

  1. As Sir John Minnes performed the duties inefficiently, it was considered necessary to take the office from him: See January 21st.

18 Annotations

Terry Foreman   Link to this

House of Commons today

Coinage.

A Bill for increasing the Stock of Coin in the Kingdom, was read the Second time.

Resolved, &c. That this Bill be committed to the former Committee appointed to consider of Means to advance the native Manufactures, and the Stock of Coin: And that the Committee be revived; and do sit this Afternoon.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?co...

---
"Mr. Slingsby, of the Tower...did in walking inform me mightily in several things; among others, that the heightening or lowering of money is only a cheat, and do good to some particular men" http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1666/10/02/

Todd Bernhardt   Link to this

re: "Sir W. Coventry told me, it is much to be pitied that the King should lose the service of a man so able and faithfull; and that he ought to be brought over, but that it is always observed, that by bringing over one discontented man, you raise up three in his room; which is a State lesson I never knew before. But when others discover your fear, and that discontent procures favour, they will be discontented too, and impose on you."

Could someone help me parse this? I think I have an idea of its meaning, but am not sure.

Also, re: the footnote -- I'm thinking Minnes' removal should be *next* January 21st?

Terry Foreman   Link to this

Todd, since Sir W. Coventry is, in effect, Secretary to the Admiralty, I assume he says Garraway deserves to be rewarded with a cushy post ("brought over"), perhaps with a post in the navy administration; but if he is, there will be others who will seek the same and more.

SPOILER The footnote errs in more than one way: on 20 January next "the business is now ordered by order of council for my Lord Bruncker to assist Sir J. Minnes in all matters of accounts relating to the Treasurer, and Sir W. Pen in all matters relating to the victuallers' and pursers' accounts...." http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1667/01/20/

Australian Susan   Link to this

"...having seen my brother in his cassocke, which I am not the most satisfied in, being doubtfull at this time what course to have him profess too soon. .."

Poor John! wonder what looked so wrong about him in a cassock? And why did Sam think the "clothes maketh the man". Surely he could be a good parson without looking splendid in the outfit.

Reminds me os someone being passed over for a Highland regiment as he "didna ha" the legs for the kilt, ye ken."

Or does Sam just feel he has made a hasty decision?

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"...having seen my brother in his cassocke, which I am not the most satisfied in, being doubtfull at this time what course to have him profess too soon."

It's tough being surviving brother to Sam Pepys.

"...there coming Creed to me; but what with business and my hatred to the man..."

Whoa, where this did come from? After all these years of shrewd appraisal and careful watching, this sure sounds personal...A cry of rage, even. I wonder if Creed did something during the Fire...Failed to show to help Sam move things?...Refused to help prepare for the Parliamentary committee?...Bringing things to this boil. Sam's always distrusted and disliked him on many levels but this is different.

Mary   Link to this

"my hatred to the man"

I have gained the impression that Pepys sometimes uses the word 'hate' in a less than full-blooded sense, implying thorough dislike or even temporary frustration rather than out-and-out hatred. Perhaps that is the case here.

gingerd   Link to this

"my brother in his cassocke"

I wonder if this refers to his aspirations to university at Cambridge and what to study there, rather than entry to the clergy.

classicist   Link to this

'he ought to be brought over, but that it is always observed, that by bringing over one discontented man, you raise up three in his room;'

Cf the comments of Charles' chancellor, Clarendon:
(Charles I)'bestowed honours upon some . . .which though in the particulars no just exceptions could be taken, yet many were angry to see some preferred; and, not so much extolling their own merit and services as making it equal to those whom they saw advanced, every man thought himself neglected and slighted in that another was better esteemed.'(History of the Rebellion VII)
In a royal court or modern corporation, human nature stays the same.

Andrea Fagin   Link to this

"returned and took up my wife, and calling at the Exchange home,"

I'm a little confused about the status of buildings after the Fire. I believe the Exchange was destroyed so where is our man going when he says he called at the Exchange home?

JWB   Link to this

"the Exchange" mouse-over should yield New Exchange, not Royal ...

JKM   Link to this

OK, trying to make sense of all these pronouns....
"I told him [Sit W. Coventry] the passage Cocke told me of his [the King's] having begged a brace of bucks of the Lord Arlington for him [Garraway, MP], and when it come to him [Garraway], he sent it back again."
Right?

Mary   Link to this

the Exchange.

The merchants who used, before the fire, to conduct their business at the Royal Exchange (which is the institution that Pepys normally calls 'the Exchange') are now operating from Gresham College, hard by London Wall.

When he means the New Exchange, he usually makes that clear.

Terry Foreman   Link to this

JKM -- right. (Pepys's pronominal plurality.)

JWB   Link to this


Unthank's at Charing Cross, the New Exchange's nearby & logically connected after stop at her taylor's. Sam's headed to St. James just a couple thousand yards further on.

Andrew Hamilton   Link to this

To the office and there busy about a list of the extraordinaries of the charge of the fleete this war; and was led to go to the office of the ordnance to be satisfied in something, and find their accounts and books kept in mighty good order, but that they can give no light, nor will the nature of their affairs permit it to tell what the charge of the ordnance comes to a man a month.

Ah, the archeology of defense budgeting. Operations and maintenance can almost always be reduced to a per capita rate, but not procurement, R&D, construction and other "extraordinaries" -- charges that follow a different temporal rhythm than pay and allowances.

Andrew Hamilton   Link to this

"it is always observed, that by bringing over one discontented man, you raise up three in his room; which is a State lesson I never knew before. But when others discover your fear, and that discontent procures favour, they will be discontented too, and impose on you."

A timeless lesson, as applicable today as in 1666, with a particular application in foreign affairs. Do you want to smooth relations with another government by being obliging in one minor matter? Then expect to be tested with new demands.

JWB   Link to this

"archeology of defense budgeting"

... a shard of systems analysis.

Terry Foreman   Link to this

Anglesey to Ormond
Written from: London

Date: 6 October 1666

Shelfmark: MS. Carte 217, fol(s). 338

Document type: Holograph

Notices the posture of political affairs. At present, Dutch and English are striving which shall not move first for a peace, whilst both desire it. The Cattle Bill will undoubtedly pass the Commons. The writer feels no great confidence that in their own House it will be rejected; but what is possible, in opposition, will be done. ... http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/projects...

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