Saturday 9 March 1660/61

To Whitehall and there with Mr. Creed took a most pleasant walk for two hours in the park, which is now a very fair place.

Here we had a long and candid discourse one to another of one another’s condition, and he giving me an occasion I told him of my intention to get 60l. paid me by him for a gratuity for my labour extraordinary at sea. Which he did not seem unwilling to, and therefore I am very glad it is out.

To my Lord’s, where we found him lately come from Hinchingbroke, where he left my uncle very well, but my aunt not likely to live.

I staid and dined with him. He took me aside, and asked me what the world spoke of the King’s marriage. Which I answering as one that knew nothing, he enquired no further of me. But I do perceive by it that there is something in it that is ready to come out that the world knows not of yet.

After dinner into London to Mrs. Turner’s and my father’s, made visits and then home, where I sat late making of my journal for four days past, and so to bed.

26 Annotations

William Crosby   Link to this

A Gratuity! How long does Pepys continue milking his "extraordinary" weeks at sea where as I recall he ate and drank finely, socialized constantly, slept pretty well, played his lute and sang sea shantys?

vincent   Link to this

Now we can see the hindsight. "...where I sat late making of my journal for four days past, and so to bed...." It does make a difference having a solution to a problem that is no longer a worry.

jamie yeager   Link to this

Pepys' non-gratuitous work at sea...
Sam has always been more eloquent about the stuff he does in-between work times than he has about work itself. I did not take from his journals while at sea that he wasn't working; just being on call for the high and mighty is its own strain, regardless of whatever individual duties might additionally arise. But even given that his gratuity might be in some sense earned, as I think it was, still he is following the advice laid down by Pope some seventy-five-plus years later:
"Who counsels best? who whispers, 'Be but great,
With Praise or Infamy leave that to fate;
Get Place and Wealth, if possible, with grace;
If not, by any means get Wealth and Place.'
For what? to have a Box where Eunuchs sing,
And foremost in the Circle eye a King."
Alexander Pope, "Satires, Epistles, and Odes of Horace," Epistle I, Book i, ll. 101-106 (1738)

vincent   Link to this

once more into the breach.....
'Magna res est vocis et silentii temperamentum'. "...Which I answering as one that knew nothing, he enquired no further of me..."
A lesson most likely learned when sitting on his bench at St Pauls.
From Seneca the Younger Proverbs , 74
otherwise Know when keep ones mouth buttonned, or
The great thing is to know when to speak and when to keep quiet.
or as ones attorney says, never volunteer information.

Emilio   Link to this

A couple of small variations from L&M

"which is now a very fine [fair] place"

"where we find him newly [lately] come from Hinchingbrooke"

Emilio   Link to this

And on the King's marriage

"The Portuguese match had been in secret negotiation since shortly before the Restoration, and the envoy sent to conclude arrangements had been in England since 9 February. By this time, Sandwich presumably knew officially of it. Pepys does not mention it as an established fact in the diary until 3 April. It was publicly announced by the King when the new parliament met on 8 May. There had also been proposals for a marriage with a French, a Spanish, and an Imperial bride. The King was married to Catherine of Braganza on 21 May 1662." (L&M footnote)

Sandwich will be picking her up amongst his other duties once he goes to sea, so this is the last opportunity for the King to show the courtesy of bringing him into the loop before he goes.

David A. Smith   Link to this

"for a gratuity for my labour extraordinary at sea"
Building on William's point, all who in early 1660 threw their plumed caps toward the Merrie Monarch took risks and performed services -- and as those days slip below the convex horizon of memory, the past risks magnify and the past services burn more brightly. Meanwhile, everyone else is standing under the money waterfall with his bucket out, and in the presence of so much lustful avarice, our boy feels he should get a mere cupful. That he thinks a mere cupful converts to sixty pounds is further testament to his changing perspectives ...

And see next post for a related question ...

Pedro.   Link to this

He took me aside, and asked me what the world spoke of the King's marriage.
If I remember rightly, Sam had kept his Lord informed of the “word on the street” on other occasions especially when he was out of the country. I suspect there must be talk in the air, so why is he keeping stum?

David A. Smith   Link to this

"paid me by him ... I am very glad it is out"
Can someone with insight or references decipher the economics here? Sam is asking Creed, his counterpart, to approve a payment. He's chosen his moment with care, buttered up his rival, and is anxious about Creed's reaction; ergo he clearly has neither leverage to compel nor a righteous appeal to Montagu. (Perhaps because it's a big ask for which he has no evidentiary basis?) Creed acquiesces easily; ergo Creed's approval must be on behalf of someone -- the Treasury? -- rather than out of Creed's own pocket. So how did this work?

Pauline   Link to this

The King was married to Catherine of Braganza on 21 May 1662. (L&M footnote)

Pedro.   Link to this

Not this year, next year.
Although not this year, there was plenty of talk in the air as can be seen from below. We have already had talk about Tangier in the diary.

"Negotiations for the marriage began during the reign of Charles I., were renewed immediately after the Restoration, and on the 23rd of June, in spite of Spanish opposition, the marriage contract was signed, England securing Tangier and Bombay, with trading privileges in Brazil and the East Indies, religious and commercial freedom in Portugal and two million Portuguese crowns (about ~3oo,ooo); while Pc~tugal obtained military and naval support against Spain and liberty of worship for Catherine. She reached England on the I3th of May 1662, but was not visited by Charles at Portsmouth till the 20th. The next day the marriage was solemnized twice, according to the Roman Catholic and Anglican usages"
1911 on-line encyclopedia.

vincent   Link to this

Pedro: Please keep us informed [in saxon] of the portuguese version of this deal and was it good for Portugal and what was the the benefit to portugal except for removing a body from the Kings Household. Obrigardo

vincent   Link to this

"A couple of small variations from L&M"
Are these trans cription interpretations or translations into the common phraseology of the times ? How did SP rite it, I would like to see the warts. Each Generation gets a different meaning and feeling, based on eco-political atmosphere and lifetime experience.

Emilio   Link to this

"Are these transcription interpretations or translations"

They're interpretations, based on closer attention to the shorthand and much more systematic editorial practices than the Wheatley edition. Since Sam wrote in shorthand, we have to depend on someone's interpretations, and L&M are generally more reliable.

It would be interesting, though, to dig up a copy of Shelton's shorthand manual, go to Cambridge, and have a go at what Sam actually wrote. I too would like to get a better view of "the warts" than we can get at a distance.

Andrew Hamilton   Link to this

"...my labour extraordinary at sea."

My guess is that Pepys is seeking Navy, not Montagu, money. While Pepys reports his sightseeing at The Hague and some merry times aboard the Naseby, most of his trip was unremitting hard work. He was gone from London from March 23 to June 9, some eleven weeks. During this time he was Adm. Montagu's indispensable tool for transmitting orders to the fleet -- think of him as the admiral's operations center, called upon day and night. The entry for April 5 is typical:"Infinity of business all the morning of orders to make..." Pepys records that he was paid by the beneficiary for drawing up commissions, and that from time to time Mr. Creed, as treasusrer for the fleet, pays him something on account, presumably for his work for the admiral. Now, 9 months later, he needs Creed, as Deputy Treasurer of the Navy, to approve his claim for additional compensation. It seems fair to me. When Montagu took the Naseby to The Hague, he was to some degree taking a risk. Now that there is a king, and a formal naval establishment under him, isn't it reasonable for the men who took that chance to seek some addional recompense? It is fortunate for Pepys that Creed,despite their alleged rivalry, is an officer of the Navy with a unique capacity to judge the reasonableness of Pepys's claim. He knows how hard Pepys worked to serve Montagu on that occasion.

Pauline   Link to this

Thanks for this, Andrew; excellent.

Ruben   Link to this

"my labour extraordinary at sea."
…or it just may be that Creed says yes when he means maybe or maybe when he intends to say NO…
We will know better in the future.

Wim van der Meij   Link to this

Re: Andrew.
We indeed have the impression Sam is not working a lot. But he writes more about 'play' and less about 'work', probably because much of it drudgery, though it takes up much of his days.

Emilio   Link to this

Catherine of Braganza

I found a neat page about her--which reveals among other things that she is the one the New York borough of Queens is named after. Her family only gained control of Portugal in 1640, and they originally tried to marry her off to Charles I. He got sidetracked by civil war before that could happen, but now at last they're getting close to the goal with his son. Here's a little of what the page has to say about the marriage:

"Finally, in May of 1660 Charles Stuart returned to England in triumph and claimed his father's throne. Luisa lost little time in re-opening negotiations for a marriage between Catherine and the new king. The union would, of course, be of mutual benefit to both nations. England could bring her military might to the aid of Portugal in its struggle to retain its independence. Royal coffers were also rather depleted, and Charles II was a man who didn't spare the horses (or any other costly accoutrements of royalty). The Portuguese had been busy since the time of Henry the Navigator exploring and settling the far regions of the globe and Catherine would bring both a large dowry and some rather impressive property. Such as Bombay and Tangier."

Montagu will also have much more to do than simply pick her up, which is perhaps why the marriage won't take place this year. For more, go to http://home.eznet.net/~dminor/O&E981.html .

Pedro.   Link to this

More info on what Portugal got in return.
(Vincent, my alias hides dismal failures in Latin and History at school, and now many years later one of my few talents is to speak Portuguese with a "Brummagem" accent!)
"The bases of what was to become the historic Anglo-Portuguese alliance were laid by the commercial treaty of 1654 and the dynastic alliance between Portugal and England negotiated in 1661. The latter provided for the marriage of D. Catarina, daughter of the late John IV, to the newly crowned Charles II of England, together with the [398] payment of a sizable dowry and the cession to England of the Portuguese coastal enclaves of Tangier and Bombay. In return, the Bragana dynasty gained the prestige of arranging an interdynastic match of the first order, and more important, the two crowns signed a mutual defense pact providing Portugal with a formal ally in the still undecided struggle with Spain. The Anglo-Portuguese association remained a perpetual alliance ever after that date, giving Britain useful commercial opportunities and strategic bases, while providing Portugal and its empire with the shelter of what was soon to become the strongest fleet in the world. This became a significant factor in sustaining Portuguese independence.”

!! remained a perpetual alliance ever after that date…an interdynastic match of the first order!!
Until EURO 2004 NO DOUBT!

Christo   Link to this

The alliance with Portugal was, in point of fact, almost 300 years old already:

'Portugal is England's oldest ally (by a treaty signed in 1386, when the King of Portugal took an English wife) and the two countries have been closely linked ever since . . . '
http://www.mod-langs.ox.ac.uk/portuguese/prospe...
'The treaty of Windsor was signed in 1386 and remains the oldest active international treaty in the world.'
http://www.wearetheenglish.com/redwine.html

Andrew Hamilton   Link to this

"We indeed have the impression Sam is not working a lot."

Wim,

That impression is indeed justified by the recent accounts of daily play-going and frequent tavern visits. But a re-reading of the diary for the period last year when he went to sea gives an entirely different impression of his days at that time. They were more often than not filled with work from early morning to late night,bringing on fatigue, sickness, headaches and other complaints. Sam is not a slacker; he can crank out the work when such labor is called for.

Emilio   Link to this

More on the Treaty of Windsor

http://www.manorhouses.com/common/portinfo.htm#...

Go up the page a bit for a history of Portugal as well. The alliance between England and Portugal began at Windsor, but until 1640 Portugal had been ruled by Spain for over 50 years. The alliance was no doubt in need of a good refresher by the 1660s.

vicenti   Link to this

Pedro "nao faz mal" man has seven phases of life,[see W. Shakespeare , All the world...] like the spider and Rabbie Bruce, try, try, try ...again, never too late to learn, many times I've passed the point of incompetence, only to try again. Life is all about finding solutions to our life. Ego I failed the 11 + ,still I've enjoyed it all.

Laura K   Link to this

Catherine of Braganza / Borough of Queens, NYC

Some years back a statue of Catherine of Braganza was to be erected in Queens. There was a dispute (this being New York City, there is always a dispute) over whether the borough was actually named for her, and whether it was appropriate to erect a statue to someone who profited from the slave trade.

Here's a local story about it and a photo of the statue.

http://www.queenstribune.com/anniversary2003/qu...

A not-quite-relevant note: Queens is now the most ethnically diverse county in the world. New Yorkers love to prowl its neighborhoods in search of a stunning variety of ethnic foods. Take the famed #7 train for a unique New York experience.

Terry Foreman   Link to this

In 1997 Friends Against Queen Catherine. Irish American Queensites were also upset with notion that a monument to a British monarch would eclipse the Calvary Cemetery, which was established for the Irish immigrant population — a people who were long oppressed by the British crown....The statue now rests in a foundry in upstate Beacon on the grounds of Tallix, Inc., where she is waiting to be cast in bronze. There has been a series of legal disputes between the original artist, an inexperienced assistant who was hired to complete the monument, the financial backers and Tallix — which has resulted in a lot of bad blood and hurt feelings, not to mention a likeness that has been criticized as distorted and ugly. http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php?t...

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