Tuesday 8 April 1662

Up very early and to my office, and there continued till noon. So to dinner, and in comes uncle Fenner and the two Joyces. I sent for a barrel of oysters and a breast of veal roasted, and were very merry; but I cannot down with their dull company and impertinent. After dinner to the office again. So at night by coach to Whitehall, and Mr. Coventry not being there I brought my business of the office to him, it being almost dark, and so came away and took up my wife. By the way home and on Ludgate Hill there being a stop I bought two cakes, and they were our supper at home.

8 Apr 2005, 11:33 p.m. - jan

I guess I don't know what Sam means by "were very merry" He uses that phrase all the time an I always interpreted it to mean the party was lively and enjoyed themselves, maybe had wine and stayed long. But what is with this dull impertence? Doesn't sound very merry to me.

9 Apr 2005, 12:41 a.m. - Mark Ynys-Mon

"were very merry" = drunk ISTM.

9 Apr 2005, 2:01 a.m. - A. De Araujo

"the two Joyces" for whatever reasons Sam can't just stand the Joyces!

9 Apr 2005, 3:02 a.m. - roboto

"and were very merry" Well at least he wasn't "vexed" which he has been the last two days.

9 Apr 2005, 3:19 a.m. - Mary House

I took this to mean that his guests were merry, althought he secretly found their company dull and their manner impertinent.

9 Apr 2005, 3:49 a.m. - David Ross McIrvine

"and on Ludgate Hill there being a stop I bought two cakes, and they were our supper at home." Busy up-and-comer Sam grabs family dinner at The Mickey D's of the Restoration (ducking in case trademark lawyers come to sue).

9 Apr 2005, 4:11 a.m. - vicenzo

"...were very merry; but I cannot down with their dull company and impertinent..." 'very merry' Lots of Mirth, belly Laughs and street jokes. Dull subject matter, not to his liking and position in Life. Unfortunately some people grow and values change, 'tis sad to see it when it is a husband and wife, and one or t'other grow at differing rate. re: Impertinent, they do not appreciate his Position in his new world, there be Sir Geo., he be discussing the finer points of office life and now he is listening to the "Common talk" of the Gutter not the edificated points of English Diction. Oh! wot a ghastly bunch of geezers, be the Joyces.

9 Apr 2005, 4:18 a.m. - vicenzo

see Paulines comment at Ludgate site: the Naked Boy be the Cake shop?

9 Apr 2005, 4:27 a.m. - Robert Gertz

So Beth had, I suppose, hitched a coach ride with Sam to visit her parents?... Meaning, as Sam never visits the aged St Michels and seems to avoid them like the plague, she must have been standing out somewhere waiting for him as Whitehall went dark? Course Balty may have been with her for protection. Now if only Sam had thought to include the 'adventures of my wife'...

9 Apr 2005, 7:43 a.m. - Mary

"... took up my wife" Whether Elizabeth was visiting her parents or the Pepys' old neighbours in Axe Yard, it's more likely that she remained in the house until fetched out, either by Sam himself or by an accompanying Will.

9 Apr 2005, 1:56 p.m. - Ian

Merry, in this context, would mean that they didn't talk business or serious matters - frivolous conversation. It's the antonym of 'grave.' That was not an uncommon use of the word in the 17th century. "I cannot down with their dull company and impertinent." Surely there's some misreading or an error on Sam's part in this line. 'Down' does not make any sense here.

9 Apr 2005, 4:05 p.m. - David Ross McIrvine

The coach stop is probably due to 1) the need to rest (maybe change, if it's a luxury service) the horses before they go up Ludgate hill 2) The atrocious congestion in this area (London's britches were splitting at her Western seams in Sam's time) noted by John Graunt (sometimes called "Grant" here) in 1662: 17. Where note, that when Lud-gate was the only western Gate of the City, little building was westward thereof. But when Holborn began to increase New-gate was made. But now both these gates are not sufficient for the communication between the Walled City and its enlarged western suburbs, as daily appears by the intolerable stops and embaresses of coaches near both these gates, especially Lud-gate." Chapter IX From John Graunt's *Natural and Political Observations made upon the Bills of Mortality*, 1662 ed., page 43.

9 Apr 2005, 4:06 p.m. - Mary

"to down with ..." OED records this usage, but not with the meaning that Pepys implies here. The sense cited is: to put or throw down, to have done with. L&M confirms that the reading is "I cannot down with their dull company". What Sam means is, surely, "I cannot be doing with their dull company". Perhaps he just made a mistake in writing?

9 Apr 2005, 4:44 p.m. - JWB

down- to "stomach" or tolerate.

9 Apr 2005, 8:15 p.m. - vicenzo

Ludgate Hill, even in the early nineteens hundreds, caused problems for the Early omnibus, I remember hearing Tales about Ludgate.from mon Pere. There must dpcumentation of complaints about this location.

9 Apr 2005, 8:47 p.m. - vicenzo

" dull": dull said on ten previous occasions '...(where I saw General Monk and methought he seemed a dull heavy man), ..." http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1660/03/14/#c3112 "...where we had a dull sermon of a stranger, which made me sleep,..." http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1660/12/25/ 1 dull music and one dull play, the rest, it be Sermons by Strangers.

10 Apr 2005, 4:59 a.m. - David Ross McIrvine

vicenzo: "Ludgate Hill, even in the early nineteens hundreds, caused problems for the Early omnibus, I remember hearing Tales about Ludgate.from mon Pere. There must dpcumentation of complaints about this location." Apart from the 1662 citation from Graunt I quoted, I can remember lots of 19th century comments on the Ludgate Hill traffic. I am suspecting horses were indeed changed or rested before Ludgate Hill, as I'd earlier today speculated. Sorry to give a spoiler, but on Easter Sunday 1666 (April 15th that year of Our Lord), Sam notes that the horses were stopped that night at Ludgate Hill. "but the horses at Ludgate Hill made a final stop; so there I 'lighted, and with a linke, it being about 10 o'clock, walked home, and after singing a Psalm or two and supped to bed." Also as far as foodsellers and Sam's purchase of two cakes this day, here is something from Mayhew, a propos of where foodsellers (specifically costermongers) especially plied their trade around 1851. Note that there was a large stagecoach yard at an Inn (the Belle Sauvage, whence Austen's heroines would depart by coach for Bath) at Ludgate Hill: "The great theatre of this traffic was in the stagecoach yards in such inns as the Bull and Mouth (St. Martin

12 Jun 2014, 3:36 a.m. - Terry Foreman

See this site for a classic traffic-jam illustrated -- "Ludgate Hill - A block in the street," by Gustave Doré (1872) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludgate_Hill

12 Jun 2014, 3:43 a.m. - Terry Foreman

In Commons today Solemn League and Covenant. Ordered, That several Parchments, produced this Day, wherein that illegal Oath, called, "The solemn League and Covenant," was written, and subscribed with several Names; and one of them subscribed with the Names of the Speaker, and many other Members, of the then Commons House, of their own Hand-writing; be burned by the Hand of the Common Hangman, To-morrow Morning at Ten of the Clock, in the Palace Yard: And the Serjeant at Arms attending this House is to see this performed: And the Sheriffs of London and Middlesex are to assist him. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=26492#s8

9 Apr 2015, 9:43 a.m. - Robin Peters

"but I cannot down with their dull company" I initially read this as "own with" ; just one letter too many in transcription perhaps.

9 Apr 2015, 12:22 p.m. - Bill

I initially read it as "get down" haha. Pepys the first modern man. "to get down, to begin seriously doing" ---Urban Dictionary, 2014

11 Apr 2015, 11:42 p.m. - Chris Squire UK

OED has: ‘down . . 4. to down with: . . to have done with. . . 1659 D. Pell Πελαγος Ded. 8 Let's down with swearing, if ever wee mean to prosper at Sea.] 1682 E. Hickeringill Wks. (1716) II. 20 Except they..down with their Dust, and ready Darby. 1712 J. Warder True Amazons 57 They down with her House . . ‘