"Makes me wonder whether Pepys and we define advances in the stages of physical entanglement (in the US we use a baseball figure -- "first base, second base," etc. --) in different ways."
I think deniability to Elizabeth might be the issue here. "I have never kissed that girl" sounds so much more plausible than "I have never touched her thing" or "What breasts?"
And I don't recall the Brits having an equivalent to America's baseball analogy -- that should be repeated here, that is.
Pockets. There is much discussion about when pockets as we know them were invented. I've seen claims that Henry VIII's codpiece was a pocket (say it isn't so!). I was taught they were not adopted until pocket watches became fashionable decades after this. Later in the Diary you'll find this debate reflected.
I was taught men and women had pocketbooks like this, made for Admiral Penn by his daughter Pegg in the mid 1660's, either carried or tied around the waist:
An article explaining Pepys' shaving challenges and what being clean shaven signified ... The human race would do itself a great favor if it stopped over-thinking things!
"After the bushy beards of the Protestant Reformation, being clean-shaven had become the marker of a man of note. This vexed Pepys. Over the years he tried to tackle the interminable task by visiting a barber, having the barber come to his home and even shaving himself. First, he tried a pumice stone. While ‘easy, speedy, and cleanly’ at the beginning, it wasn’t better than a barber. Then came the razor, but that too had its pitfalls: ‘I have cut myself much, but I think it is from the bluntness of the razor’.
"While a seemingly simple chore, the number of objects required to shave reveals how cumbersome a job it was. Razor, soap and shaving brush, of course, but Pepys would have also needed a leather strop to keep the razor sharp, an expensive mirror, water to be collected and heated over a fire, linen to be regularly laundered and candles for an evening trim. Money was needed to buy the kit and to pay the servants or the barber. Predictably, wealth and social standing were inextricably linked. Shaving was an amenity for the moneyed and a marker of a ‘Polite Gentleman’.
"The ‘Polite Gentleman’ was an archetype against which men could position themselves. It was, like the ‘Household Patriarch’ before it, the dominant masculine norm to which most men aspired. It dictated the mainstream male fashion, which is why Pepys kept himself beardless and periwigged.
"Adhering to this fashion was the easiest way of getting by."
We can see how much money and time Pepys spends on 'getting by' and establishing his right to be a 'Polite Gentleman' of means. This article explains how the trend became quite outrageous for men in the 18th century.
"In the evening comes W. Batelier and his sister, and my wife, and fair Mrs. Turner into the garden, and there we walked, and then with my Lady Pen and Pegg in a-doors, and eat and were merry, and so pretty late broke up, and to bed."
Couldn't repeat last night's bash, Pepys? Another time he mentions the Penn ladies and not Elizabeth. But it's Mrs. Turner who is "fair" this time.
That's the most drunken bash that I've heard Pepys report so far. And Mistress Pegg Penn forgot herself to the extent of putting on a periwig (with Elizabeth and Nan Wright). Mercer probably had the most fun. I doubt they party like that at the Penn house. (Did mom go home early? or is this another secret the Margarets will have to keep from the Williams?)
"Thence with him home; and there by appointment I find Dr. Fuller, now Bishop of Limericke, in Ireland; whom I knew in his low condition at Twittenham. I had also by his desire Sir W. Pen, and with him his lady and daughter, and had a good dinner, and find the Bishop the same good man as ever; and in a word, kind to us, and, methinks, one of the comeliest and most becoming prelates in all respects that ever I saw in my life. During dinner comes an acquaintance of his, Sir Thomas Littleton; whom I knew not while he was in my house, but liked his discourse; and afterwards, by Sir W. Pen, do come to know that he is one of the greatest speakers in the House of Commons, and the usual second to the great Vaughan. So was sorry I did observe him no more, and gain more of his acquaintance. "After dinner, they being gone, and I mightily pleased with my guests, ..."
I wonder why Pepys makes a point of recording that the two Margaret Penns attended this splendid lunch, but makes no mention of Elizabeth. In retrospect later, I suspect Admiral Penn wishes he'd made a better showing. [see the biography of Littleton that I posted to find out why] https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
"At night into the garden to my wife and Lady Pen and Pegg, and Creed, who staid with them till 10 at night. My Lady Pen did give us a tarte and other things, and so broke up late and I to bed."
These walks and talks -- and tartes -- by Pepys and his ladies in the cool of the evening in the gardens must have been very enjoyable.
"... and so I home, and there was called by Pegg Pen to her house, where her father and mother, and Mrs. Norton, the second Roxalana, a fine woman, indifferent handsome, good body and hand, and good mine, and pretends to sing, but do it not excellently. However I took pleasure there, and my wife was sent for, and Creed come in to us, and so there we spent the most of the afternoon. Thence weary of losing so much time I to the office, ..."
I suppose having Mary Norton at your house was like having a visit from Meryl Streep today. Worth stopping your close friends from working for a few hours to enjoy her company.
"While I was hard at it comes Sir W. Pen to towne, which I little expected, having invited my Lady and her daughter Pegg to dine with me to-day; which at noon they did, and Sir W. Pen with them: and pretty merry we were. And though I do not love him, yet I find it necessary to keep in with him; his good service at Shearnesse in getting out the fleete being much taken notice of, and reported to the King and Duke [of York], even from the Prince and Duke of Albemarle themselves, and made the most of to me and them by Sir W. Coventry: therefore I think it discretion, great and necessary discretion, to keep in with him."
So Pepys had invited over his favorite neighbors to lunch (note: no Elizabeth??? what was he plotting???), and then the despicable Admiral arrives home so he must be included. But wait, he's the man of the hour, so it is a "great and necessary discretion" to have him to lunch as well. Sam manages to be pretty merry regardless.
Pepys' vendetta justifies creating a wedge between the Margarets and the Admiral. I wonder how this plays out at their house.
"Then into the garden, then my wife and Mercer and my Lady Pen and her daughter with us, and here we sung in the darke very finely half an houre, and so home to supper and to bed."
Sam entertains his ladies again ... he has no close men friends.
"... did go out to Aldgate, there to be overtaken by Mrs. Margot Pen in her father’s coach, and my wife and Mercer with her, and Mrs. Pen carried us to two gardens at Hackny, (which I every day grow more and more in love with,) Mr. Drake’s one, where the garden is good, and house and the prospect admirable; the other my Lord Brooke’s, where the gardens are much better, but the house not so good, nor the prospect good at all. But the gardens are excellent; ..."
"Mom, I'm taking the car ... see you later." ... LATER ... "I'm home ... What's your problem? I said I was going out with Elizabeth and Mercer. I didn't know you needed the car ... no, I don't want supper; Elizabeth, Mercer, Sam and I ate at a pub in Hackney ... Sam and I got lost in a labyrinth. Why are you hitting me?"
"... and taking a turne in the garden my Lady Pen comes to me and takes me into her house, where I find her daughter and a pretty lady of her acquaintance, one Mrs. Lowder, sister, I suppose, of her servant Lowder’s, with whom I, notwithstanding all my resolution to follow business close this afternoon, did stay talking and playing the foole almost all the afternoon, and there saw two or three foolish sorry pictures of her doing, but very ridiculous compared to what my wife do. She grows mighty homely and looks old."
The Penn house is full of Margarets. Pegg Penn has grown "homely and looks old"? She's 15 and has a wealthy fiance ... maybe she's got an attack of acne or the cramps or something? Perhaps she's heard that her father has financial challenges, and feels guilty for being the cause? Pepys plays the fool, and has to admire her foolish sorry pictures, which she knows are nothing compared to Elizabeth's art work.
I bet Pegg wishes "Uncle Sam" would just leave so she can talk to her new sister-in-law-to-be about her future family and husband. These old people can be so embarrassing.
"Here Sir W. Pen did give me the reason in my eare of his importunity for money, for that he is now to marry his daughter. God send her better fortune than her father deserves I should wish him for a false rogue."
Ah-ha. Admiral Penn must have offered a generous dowry to the wealthy Lowther family to secure for Pegg a landed future. Or maybe he's just using that as an excuse to be economical, hiding other financial challenges?
Young William Penn is in Ireland, tending to the family properties and being of service to Ormonde. And the youngest child, mentioned once in the Diaries as Elizabeth's Valentine in February 1664/65, was Richard "Dicke", 1648-1673. Some genealogy sites list other siblings. Since Dicke dies at 25, perhaps he was sickly? In short ... where's the money gone, Admiral?
I wonder why Dick only warrants this one entry. William Jr., and Pegg get lots of attention.
Since Dick dies at 25, perhaps he wasn't well, despite his apparent health? Where did he stay during the plague? Was he sent away to school like his siblings?
He's buried at the parish-church in Walthamstow, which is dedicated to the Virgin Mary. His memorial reads: "Richard Penn, Gent. second son of Sr William Penn, Knt, from Rickmersworth, buried Apl 9, 1673; the Lady Penn, Mar. 4, 1681–2."
"... at noon to dinner all of us by invitation to Sir W. Pen’s, and much other company. Among others, Lieutenant of the Tower, and Broome, his poet, and Dr. Whistler, and his (Sir W. Pen’s) son-in-law Lowder, servant —[lover]— to Mrs. Margaret Pen, and Sir Edward Spragg, a merry man, that sang a pleasant song pleasantly."
How nice. 14-year-old Pegg Penn is engaged to a 24-year-old Yorkshire man. They will marry in in February 1666/67.
"Anon to dinner and thence in great haste to make a short visit to Sir W. Pen, where I found them and his lady and daughter and many commanders at dinner. Among others Sir G. Askue, of whom whatever the matter is, the world is silent altogether. But a very pretty dinner there was, and after dinner Sir W. Pen made a bargain with Cocke for ten bales of silke, at 16s. per lb., which, as Cocke says, will be a good pennyworth, and so away to the Prince ..."
Pepys intends to make a flying visit to see Adm. Penn, but ends up staying (for a second dinner?) and discussing business. Considering the times, it may be significant that he records the presence of the two Margarets, but not the names of the many commanders?
"I took my Lady Pen home, and her daughter Pegg, and merry we were; and after dinner I made my wife show them her pictures, which did mad Pegg Pen, who learns of the same man and cannot do so well."
Pepys loves being with his Elizabeth and the two Penn ladies, and always records being merry. Never that merry around the Admiral, though. Does he court the ladies to upset the Admiral????
Comments
Second Reading
About Wednesday 26 June 1667
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Makes me wonder whether Pepys and we define advances in the stages of physical entanglement (in the US we use a baseball figure -- "first base, second base," etc. --) in different ways."
I think deniability to Elizabeth might be the issue here. "I have never kissed that girl" sounds so much more plausible than "I have never touched her thing" or "What breasts?"
And I don't recall the Brits having an equivalent to America's baseball analogy -- that should be repeated here, that is.
About Thursday 16 February 1659/60
San Diego Sarah • Link
Pockets. There is much discussion about when pockets as we know them were invented. I've seen claims that Henry VIII's codpiece was a pocket (say it isn't so!). I was taught they were not adopted until pocket watches became fashionable decades after this. Later in the Diary you'll find this debate reflected.
I was taught men and women had pocketbooks like this, made for Admiral Penn by his daughter Pegg in the mid 1660's, either carried or tied around the waist:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/…
About Saturday 7 July 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
When Margaret "Pegg" Penn was 15 she embroidered a beautiful pocket book for her father, with a portrait of his favorite dog, Port:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/…
About Monday 17 September 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
An article explaining Pepys' shaving challenges and what being clean shaven signified ... The human race would do itself a great favor if it stopped over-thinking things!
"After the bushy beards of the Protestant Reformation, being clean-shaven had become the marker of a man of note. This vexed Pepys. Over the years he tried to tackle the interminable task by visiting a barber, having the barber come to his home and even shaving himself. First, he tried a pumice stone. While ‘easy, speedy, and cleanly’ at the beginning, it wasn’t better than a barber. Then came the razor, but that too had its pitfalls: ‘I have cut myself much, but I think it is from the bluntness of the razor’.
"While a seemingly simple chore, the number of objects required to shave reveals how cumbersome a job it was. Razor, soap and shaving brush, of course, but Pepys would have also needed a leather strop to keep the razor sharp, an expensive mirror, water to be collected and heated over a fire, linen to be regularly laundered and candles for an evening trim. Money was needed to buy the kit and to pay the servants or the barber. Predictably, wealth and social standing were inextricably linked. Shaving was an amenity for the moneyed and a marker of a ‘Polite Gentleman’.
"The ‘Polite Gentleman’ was an archetype against which men could position themselves. It was, like the ‘Household Patriarch’ before it, the dominant masculine norm to which most men aspired. It dictated the mainstream male fashion, which is why Pepys kept himself beardless and periwigged.
"Adhering to this fashion was the easiest way of getting by."
We can see how much money and time Pepys spends on 'getting by' and establishing his right to be a 'Polite Gentleman' of means. This article explains how the trend became quite outrageous for men in the 18th century.
https://www.historytoday.com/misc…
About Wednesday 15 August 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
"In the evening comes W. Batelier and his sister, and my wife, and fair Mrs. Turner into the garden, and there we walked, and then with my Lady Pen and Pegg in a-doors, and eat and were merry, and so pretty late broke up, and to bed."
Couldn't repeat last night's bash, Pepys? Another time he mentions the Penn ladies and not Elizabeth. But it's Mrs. Turner who is "fair" this time.
About Tuesday 14 August 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
That's the most drunken bash that I've heard Pepys report so far. And Mistress Pegg Penn forgot herself to the extent of putting on a periwig (with Elizabeth and Nan Wright). Mercer probably had the most fun. I doubt they party like that at the Penn house. (Did mom go home early? or is this another secret the Margarets will have to keep from the Williams?)
About Wednesday 18 July 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Thence with him home; and there by appointment I find Dr. Fuller, now Bishop of Limericke, in Ireland; whom I knew in his low condition at Twittenham. I had also by his desire Sir W. Pen, and with him his lady and daughter, and had a good dinner, and find the Bishop the same good man as ever; and in a word, kind to us, and, methinks, one of the comeliest and most becoming prelates in all respects that ever I saw in my life. During dinner comes an acquaintance of his, Sir Thomas Littleton; whom I knew not while he was in my house, but liked his discourse; and afterwards, by Sir W. Pen, do come to know that he is one of the greatest speakers in the House of Commons, and the usual second to the great Vaughan. So was sorry I did observe him no more, and gain more of his acquaintance.
"After dinner, they being gone, and I mightily pleased with my guests, ..."
I wonder why Pepys makes a point of recording that the two Margaret Penns attended this splendid lunch, but makes no mention of Elizabeth. In retrospect later, I suspect Admiral Penn wishes he'd made a better showing. [see the biography of Littleton that I posted to find out why]
https://www.pepysdiary.com/encycl…
About Saturday 7 July 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
"At night into the garden to my wife and Lady Pen and Pegg, and Creed, who staid with them till 10 at night. My Lady Pen did give us a tarte and other things, and so broke up late and I to bed."
These walks and talks -- and tartes -- by Pepys and his ladies in the cool of the evening in the gardens must have been very enjoyable.
About Monday 2 July 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... and so I home, and there was called by Pegg Pen to her house, where her father and mother, and Mrs. Norton, the second Roxalana, a fine woman, indifferent handsome, good body and hand, and good mine, and pretends to sing, but do it not excellently. However I took pleasure there, and my wife was sent for, and Creed come in to us, and so there we spent the most of the afternoon. Thence weary of losing so much time I to the office, ..."
I suppose having Mary Norton at your house was like having a visit from Meryl Streep today. Worth stopping your close friends from working for a few hours to enjoy her company.
About Sunday 1 July 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
"While I was hard at it comes Sir W. Pen to towne, which I little expected, having invited my Lady and her daughter Pegg to dine with me to-day; which at noon they did, and Sir W. Pen with them: and pretty merry we were. And though I do not love him, yet I find it necessary to keep in with him; his good service at Shearnesse in getting out the fleete being much taken notice of, and reported to the King and Duke [of York], even from the Prince and Duke of Albemarle themselves, and made the most of to me and them by Sir W. Coventry: therefore I think it discretion, great and necessary discretion, to keep in with him."
So Pepys had invited over his favorite neighbors to lunch (note: no Elizabeth??? what was he plotting???), and then the despicable Admiral arrives home so he must be included. But wait, he's the man of the hour, so it is a "great and necessary discretion" to have him to lunch as well. Sam manages to be pretty merry regardless.
Pepys' vendetta justifies creating a wedge between the Margarets and the Admiral. I wonder how this plays out at their house.
About Tuesday 26 June 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Then into the garden, then my wife and Mercer and my Lady Pen and her daughter with us, and here we sung in the darke very finely half an houre, and so home to supper and to bed."
Sam entertains his ladies again ... he has no close men friends.
About Monday 25 June 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... did go out to Aldgate, there to be overtaken by Mrs. Margot Pen in her father’s coach, and my wife and Mercer with her, and Mrs. Pen carried us to two gardens at Hackny, (which I every day grow more and more in love with,) Mr. Drake’s one, where the garden is good, and house and the prospect admirable; the other my Lord Brooke’s, where the gardens are much better, but the house not so good, nor the prospect good at all. But the gardens are excellent; ..."
"Mom, I'm taking the car ... see you later." ... LATER ... "I'm home ... What's your problem? I said I was going out with Elizabeth and Mercer. I didn't know you needed the car ... no, I don't want supper; Elizabeth, Mercer, Sam and I ate at a pub in Hackney ... Sam and I got lost in a labyrinth. Why are you hitting me?"
About Sunday 17 June 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... and then talke with my Lady and Pegg Pen in the garden, ..."
You tell me about your day, and I'll tell you about mine. Oy, relatives!
About Monday 11 June 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
"I, with my Lady Pen and her daughter, to see Harman; whom we find lame in bed."
Frightened to leave Pegg Penn alone at home? Teaching her noblesse oblige? I'm sure Harman was pleased to see her, however.
About Thursday 12 April 1666
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... and taking a turne in the garden my Lady Pen comes to me and takes me into her house, where I find her daughter and a pretty lady of her acquaintance, one Mrs. Lowder, sister, I suppose, of her servant Lowder’s, with whom I, notwithstanding all my resolution to follow business close this afternoon, did stay talking and playing the foole almost all the afternoon, and there saw two or three foolish sorry pictures of her doing, but very ridiculous compared to what my wife do. She grows mighty homely and looks old."
The Penn house is full of Margarets. Pegg Penn has grown "homely and looks old"? She's 15 and has a wealthy fiance ... maybe she's got an attack of acne or the cramps or something? Perhaps she's heard that her father has financial challenges, and feels guilty for being the cause? Pepys plays the fool, and has to admire her foolish sorry pictures, which she knows are nothing compared to Elizabeth's art work.
I bet Pegg wishes "Uncle Sam" would just leave so she can talk to her new sister-in-law-to-be about her future family and husband. These old people can be so embarrassing.
About Saturday 3 March 1665/66
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Here Sir W. Pen did give me the reason in my eare of his importunity for money, for that he is now to marry his daughter. God send her better fortune than her father deserves I should wish him for a false rogue."
Ah-ha. Admiral Penn must have offered a generous dowry to the wealthy Lowther family to secure for Pegg a landed future. Or maybe he's just using that as an excuse to be economical, hiding other financial challenges?
Young William Penn is in Ireland, tending to the family properties and being of service to Ormonde. And the youngest child, mentioned once in the Diaries as Elizabeth's Valentine in February 1664/65, was Richard "Dicke", 1648-1673. Some genealogy sites list other siblings. Since Dicke dies at 25, perhaps he was sickly? In short ... where's the money gone, Admiral?
About Richard Penn (Dick)
San Diego Sarah • Link
I wonder why Dick only warrants this one entry. William Jr., and Pegg get lots of attention.
Since Dick dies at 25, perhaps he wasn't well, despite his apparent health? Where did he stay during the plague? Was he sent away to school like his siblings?
He's buried at the parish-church in Walthamstow, which is dedicated to the Virgin Mary. His memorial reads:
"Richard Penn, Gent. second son of Sr William Penn, Knt, from Rickmersworth, buried Apl 9, 1673; the Lady Penn, Mar. 4, 1681–2."
About Thursday 11 January 1665/66
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... at noon to dinner all of us by invitation to Sir W. Pen’s, and much other company. Among others, Lieutenant of the Tower, and Broome, his poet, and Dr. Whistler, and his (Sir W. Pen’s) son-in-law Lowder, servant —[lover]— to Mrs. Margaret Pen, and Sir Edward Spragg, a merry man, that sang a pleasant song pleasantly."
How nice. 14-year-old Pegg Penn is engaged to a 24-year-old Yorkshire man. They will marry in in February 1666/67.
About Monday 25 September 1665
San Diego Sarah • Link
"Anon to dinner and thence in great haste to make a short visit to Sir W. Pen, where I found them and his lady and daughter and many commanders at dinner. Among others Sir G. Askue, of whom whatever the matter is, the world is silent altogether. But a very pretty dinner there was, and after dinner Sir W. Pen made a bargain with Cocke for ten bales of silke, at 16s. per lb., which, as Cocke says, will be a good pennyworth, and so away to the Prince ..."
Pepys intends to make a flying visit to see Adm. Penn, but ends up staying (for a second dinner?) and discussing business. Considering the times, it may be significant that he records the presence of the two Margarets, but not the names of the many commanders?
About Sunday 3 September 1665
San Diego Sarah • Link
"I took my Lady Pen home, and her daughter Pegg, and merry we were; and after dinner I made my wife show them her pictures, which did mad Pegg Pen, who learns of the same man and cannot do so well."
Pepys loves being with his Elizabeth and the two Penn ladies, and always records being merry. Never that merry around the Admiral, though. Does he court the ladies to upset the Admiral????