Tuesday 29 January 1666/67

Up to the office all the morning, where Sir W. Pen and I look much askewe one upon another, though afterward business made us speak friendly enough, but yet we hate one another. At noon home to dinner, and then to the office, where all the afternoon expecting Mr. Gawden to come for some money I am to pay him, but he comes not, which makes me think he is considering whether it be necessary to make the present he hath promised, it being possible this alteration in the Controller’s duty may make my place in the Victualling unnecessary, so that I am a little troubled at it. Busy till late at night at the office, and Sir W. Batten come to me, and tells me that there is newes upon the Exchange to-day, that my Lord Sandwich’s coach and the French Embassador’s at Madrid, meeting and contending for the way, they shot my Lord’s postilion and another man dead; and that we have killed 25 of theirs, and that my Lord is well. How true this is I cannot tell, there being no newes of it at all at Court, as I am told late by one come thence, so that I hope it is not so. By and by comes Mrs. Turner to me, to make her complaint of her sad usage she receives from my Lord Bruncker, that he thinks much she hath not already got another house, though he himself hath employed her night and day ever since his first mention of the matter, to make part of her house ready for him, as he ordered, and promised she should stay till she had fitted herself; by which and what discourse I do remember he had of the business before Sir W. Coventry on Sunday last I perceive he is a rotten- hearted, false man as any else I know, even as Sir W. Pen himself, and, therefore, I must beware of him accordingly, and I hope I shall. I did pity the woman with all my heart, and gave her the best council I could; and so, falling to other discourse, I made her laugh and merry, as sad as she came to me; so that I perceive no passion in a woman can be lasting long; and so parted and I home, and there teaching my girle Barker part of my song “It is decreed,” which she will sing prettily, and so after supper to bed.

33 Annotations

Terry Foreman   Link to this

John Evelyn's Diary

29th January 1666-67. To Lond in order to my son's Oxford journey, who being very early entered in both Latin and Greek, and prompt to learn beyond most of his age, I was persuaded to trust him under the tutorage of Mr. Bohun, fellow of New College, who had ben his preceptor in my house some years before; but at Oxford under the inspection of Dr. Bathurst, President of Trinity College, where I plac'd him, not as yet 13 years old. He was newly out of long coates.

http://snipurl.com/sz6lc

Terry Foreman   Link to this

"He was newly out of long coates."

Why this phrase?

Terry Foreman   Link to this

Arlington to Ormond
Written from: Whitehall
Date: 29 January 1667

The Assessment Bill passed the House of Lords yesterday; so that we want nothing, but that for rebuilding of the City, wherein we concern ourselves much.

... After further conference with Lord Anglesey, the King told the writer to bring the Letter [concerning the £50,000 granted to the Duke of Ormond] for his signature; so that the writer will be able to deliver it, complete, into Lord Ossory's hands ...
_____

Ormond to Arlington
Written from: Dublin
Date: 29 January 1667

... Predictions of near-approaching calamities are the subject of almost every letter out of England, and of discourse here, to the apparent [in MS.: "evident"] dejection of the well-affected and joy of the ill ... It must certainly be an eminent change, and a speedy one, that can restore the courage of the good ... There are those who parallel [these] proceedings ... with those in the beginning of the late troubles. But, the writer hopes that they do so unskilfully, if not maliciously ...

http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/projects...

cape henry   Link to this

"...that my Lord Sandwich’s coach and the French Embassador’s at Madrid, meeting and contending for the way..." The first part of this story sounds plausible enough, so it will be interesting to learn what [probably] really happened. 25 to 1 is quite a high score - and Pepys note of skepticism is well warranted.

cum salis grano   Link to this

tis an English thing time of becoming useful to the girls, like from shorts to long trousers time.
long coat, long-coat

a. A coat reaching to the ankles; also in pl. (= long-clothes) the garments of a baby in arms. Also attrib. b. One who wears a long coat.
1603 DEKKER Grissil II. i. (Shaks. Soc.) 18 Yet he doth but as many of his brother knights do, keep an ordinary table for him and his long coat follower. That long coat makes the master a little king.
1614 R. TAILOR Hog hath lost his Pearl III. E2 Ile laugh shalt see enough, and thou shalt weepe Softly, good long coate, softly.

cum salis grano   Link to this

coming of age:

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"...so that I perceive no passion in a woman can be lasting long..."

Ummn...Gee, Sam...What ummn, profound wisdom from the fellow who can't keep from fondling twelve year olds in his office, can't refrain from petty cat fights with his far more experienced and kindly fellow officer, failed to take any action to defend his wife from the insulting behavior of his lecherous uncle, and who once deliberately lied about the value of his dead uncle's estate to look important.

You notice I didn't add "who cackles at length with glee and is convinced God is pulling for him every time he manages to rip off a few dozen pounds in bribes"...He's just too cute when he's like that to make fun.

Susan Scott   Link to this

"not as yet 13 years old. He was newly out of long coates."

Young boys were dressed in long skirts/coats, until they were "breeched", a sign of growing up. From that point on, they were dressed exactly like miniature men. For most boys the shift was around five or six, certainly long before the thirteen years that Evelyn mentions.

Here's a portrait of Esme Stuart, Duke of Richmond (1649-1660) around age four, still dressed in long skirts.

http://www.historicalportraits.com/InternalMain...

And here's one of the famous portraits of the children of Charles I, after Van Dyke. The future Charles II is on the left, Mary is in the middle, and brother James is on the far right. Both boys are still in skirts.

http://www.stjathenaeum.org/gallery_images/chil...

cum salis grano   Link to this

more available at wiki under
Unbreeched with CI uncoated:

- unbreeched

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Boy

Looking on the lines
Of my boy's face, methought I did recoil
Twenty-three years, and saw myself unbreech'd
In my green velvet coat, my dagger muzzled,
Lest it should bite its master, and so prove
(As ornament oft does) too dangerous.[10]
A speech by King Leontes from Shakespeare's The Winter's Tale

oed

un{sm}breeched, a
Not dressed in breeches.
1611 SHAKES. Wint. T. I. ii. 158 Me thoughts I did requoyle Twentie three yeeres, and saw my selfe vn-breech'd, In my greene Veluet Coat.

wiki:

"....a small boy was first dressed in breeches or trousers. From the mid-16th century[1] until the late 19th or early 20th century, young boys in the Western world were unbreeched and wore gowns or dresses until an age that varied between two or three and seven or eight.[2] Breeching was an important rite of passage in the life of a boy, looked forward to with much excitement. It often marked the point at which the father became more involved with the raising of a boy.[3]...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_%28boys%29

cum salis grano   Link to this

prior to being short coated CharlesII
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Charles_II_Pr...

cum salis grano   Link to this

Men being men, women had to hide their knees and ankles, twas ok for girls to show off their necklaces, more the better. So boys before being apprenticed were not breeched, thus when old enough could show off their legs in fine tight fitting breeches. Thus coming of age was the comment figuratively "uncoated".
For me, It was when I was allowed to wear long pants, and dump those knee freezing shorts.
A term "out of long coat" used by many was that the voice had broken.
Just my view.

Coat n

2. a. A garment worn suspended from the waist by women or young children; a petticoat, a skirt. Usually in pl. = petticoats; also, the skirts of a dress. Obs. in literary lang., but widely used in dialects.
1393 ...
1654 WHITLOCK Zootomia 341 For the Languages, or Philosophy, that Ingenious Gentlewoman at Utricht, may in her long Coates put some black coates to the Blush.

b. Sometimes used for a woman's outer garment; esp. in mod. use, a stout buttoned overcoat.
1670 MRS. E. in Evelyn's Mem. (1857) IV. 20 Fitting my little niece with a mantle coat, bodice coat, petticoat narrow shoes and stockings.

Australian Susan   Link to this

There was a folk belief lurking behind this practice: it was thought dressing all the children as girls would fool the fairies into not taking a boy for a changeling. But I am sure this was not believed by the 17th century.

When persons with cameras first ventured into the English countryside(1850s and 60s) to record village life, their photographs sometimes show a boy dressed in a girl's pinafore - but this would just mean that the boy had the misfortune to have older sisters so he had to inherit their clothes. All poor children wore hand-me-downs.

djc   Link to this

"...Trinity College, where I plac’d him, not as yet 13 years old. He was newly out of long coates."

Perhaps does not mean that Evelyn's son was nearly 13 when newly out of long coats, but that he went to Oxford far earlier than the normal age of 13.

language hat   Link to this

He went to Oxford at five or six? I don't think so. "Not as yet thirteen" would mean twelve, perhaps eleven, certainly no younger, so the "long coat" problem remains.

Susan Scott   Link to this

Evelyn had only one surviving son in 1666/7. Young John (1655-99) would have been around eleven, which would definitely qualify as "not as yet thirteen." Considering that Evelyn had already lost four other sons in infancy or young childhood, he could be forgiven for being perhaps a bit melancholy and reflective at parting with this boy here. Maybe the long coates reference is along the lines of "how fast children grow; it seems he was only a baby yesterday." Just a guess....

Ruben   Link to this

In 1960 I visited Maarken, near Amsterdam that was an isolated small island in those days. I took diapositive pictures of boys and girls dressed with the same skirts. I have somewhere a box with the pictures, but it was easier to find one in the net.
so see:
http://www.heritage-print.com/pictures_1225195/...
you knew if it was a boy or a girl by the different head dress, whatever it is called. Blond hair was identical.
I visited the magical place 30 years later. There was no magic left, it was no more an island (polders!) and it looked like a gigantic tourist bus stop-trap.

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"...where all the afternoon expecting Mr. Gawden to come for some money I am to pay him, but he comes not, which makes me think he is considering whether it be necessary to make the present he hath promised, it being possible this alteration in the Controller’s duty may make my place in the Victualling unnecessary, so that I am a little troubled at it."

It seemed surprising Surveyor General Sam wasn't troubled about it when the change was first implimented. Wonder if Sam is worried the "old boy" network is passing word round that Pepys is no longer the man to see in naval affairs. First Warren, now Gauden...If so, ouch.

"Live on my salary?! Bess, do you realize what that would mean?!"

Robert Gertz   Link to this

If I may revive and steal an old Benny Hill sketch...

"Hello, I'm Samuel Pepys, here to tell you about the Undeserving Cause of the Week.

As Clerk of the Acts, Treasurer of the Tangier Commission, and Surveyor General of Victualling for the Royal Navy, I received not only reasonable if ridiculously low (for a Gentleman) salaries but sizable gifts of money and in kind for services rendered to many of the businessmen essential to keeping our beloved Royal Navy functioning. Thanks to these large "grants" I have been able to support a half-dozen mistresses, including their ne'er-do-well or ambitious husbands and families, a number of girlfriends, too numerous to name, an idle brother at University, a large home well-staffed with servants and constantly remodelled in the latest taste to the pleasure and comfort of my guests and myself, a second home for my parents, needy in-laws, and a large pool of talented musicians and craftsmen. In short, people, I have acted as my own personal stimulus package for London. Now, all that is likely to change owing to reorganization in the Naval Office. I am well like to lose much of my primary income, namely those "grants" I mentioned. England, I have done my bit...And now I need you. Send all donotations as cash or gifts in kind to "Samuel Pepys, Esq., Clerk of the Acts for His Majesty's Navy, at the Offices of the Royal Navy, Seething Lane, London." Personal donations by attractive women are always welcome at my office or home."

Terry Foreman   Link to this

"a number of girlfriends, too numerous to name"

Aren't they all named Betty?

arby   Link to this

heehee

Terry Foreman   Link to this

"By and by comes Mrs. Turner to me, to make her complaint of her sad usage she receives from my Lord Bruncker, that he thinks much she hath not already got another house, though he himself hath employed her night and day ever since his first mention of the matter, to make part of her house ready for him, as he ordered"

So, he who makes himself out to be the high and mighty Lord Viscount Brouncker -- DM (Oxford), FRS, President of the Royal Society, Chancellor to Queen Catherine and chief of the Saint Catherine's Hospital -- is so far-removed from reality that he cannot fathom why a clerk's family cannot find lodgings post-Fire.

(SPOILER -- the truth of his eminence will soon come out. See 24 March http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1667/03/24/ )

cum salis grano   Link to this

Many ways to view "...He was newly out of long coates..."
for us clod 'oppers, it could mean "still wet behind the ears and he be off to be brainwashed so soon".
Evelyn being a gent, would use tasteful words.

Fern   Link to this

"my Lord Sandwich’s coach and the French Embassador’s at Madrid, meeting and contending for the way,"

Road rage, 17th century style.

Jacqueline Gore   Link to this

"Personal donations by attractive women are always welcome at my office or home."

NO.

No.

No?

Oh, all right. But not more than 25Ls. And if Bess or my husband sees us, I'm denying everything.

Ruben   Link to this

“my Lord Sandwich’s coach and the French Embassador’s at Madrid, meeting and contending for the way,”

No road rage but national honour stupidity.
In the last day of Sept. 1661 the Spanish and the French ambbassadors had a battle in a London street for the honour of being next to Charles II carriage. There were people dead from all sides (a lot of French, one or two Spanish and an English onlooker).
See the archive for more details.

C.J.Darby   Link to this

I have recently been looking through old family photographs from the 1870's up to the early 1900's and nearly every boy under the age of 5 or 6 is dressed in a girls dress and has long hair styled like a girls. It is very difficult to tell who is the great great granduncle or aunt and folklore at least in Ireland has it that fairies were envious of boys and would swap them for changelings who were weak and sickly so male children were all dressed as girls to avoid this fate.

Australian Susan   Link to this

I said that 3 days ago C.J. Darby!

A. De Araujo   Link to this

"...so that I perceive no passion in a woman can be lasting long..."
whoever wrote the lyrics: La donna e mobile
qual piuma al vento
muta d'accento
e di pensiero,do agree with Sam.

cum salis grano   Link to this

Ovid dothe iterate:"
"successore novo vincitur omnis amor"
Remedia Amoris 343

FJA   Link to this

"whoever wrote the lyrics: La donna e mobile"
That, of course, would be Giuseppe Verdi, thanks for letting me be the one to say so: a famous aria from "Rigoletto". And the Duke who sings it was even more promiscuous than our Sam, or even Charles II, but with no fear of recrimination. He is last seen walking off stage into the night, singing this song.

Nix   Link to this

Actually, while Verdi wrote the music, the lyrics are by Francesco Maria Pave.

language hat   Link to this

Actually, it's Piave:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Maria_Piave

He wrote the lyrics for a bunch of Verdi (and other) operas, including the magnificent Macbeth, which gets too little respect -- I myself think it's as good as the Shakespeare play. (I mean the opera, of course, not just the lyrics.)

FJA   Link to this

You guys are right, of course. Sorry, my mistake.

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