Wednesday 18 February 1662/63

Up, leaving my wife sick as last night in bed. I to my office all the morning, casting up with Captain Cocke their accounts of 500 tons of hemp brought from Riga, and bought by him and partners upon account, wherein are many things worth my knowledge. So at noon to dinner, taking Mr. Hater with me because of losing them, and in the afternoon he and I alone at the office, finishing our account of the extra charge of the Navy, not properly belonging to the Navy, since the King’s coming in to Christmas last; and all extra things being abated, I find that the true charge of the Navy to that time hath been after the rate of 374,743l. a- year. I made an end by eleven o’clock at night, and so home to bed almost weary. This day the Parliament met again, after their long prorogation; but I know not any thing what they have done, being within doors all day.

32 Annotations

Terry F   Link to this

prorogation

- event that marks the end of a parliamentary session. http://politics.guardian.co.uk/commons/story/0,...

but evidently used here to describe a recess?

matthew newton   Link to this

'so at noon to dinner'
any info on time-keeping during the day?
how would Sam have known it was mid-day?
pocket watch?
surely not?

Terry F   Link to this

See Science, Technology, Health > Clocks and watches in the Background info http://www.pepysdiary.com/encyclopedia/715/

The chimes from St Paul's and other steeples's bells would have been audible; surely the Navy Office had at least one clock; there were indeed watches at this time.

Leslie Katz   Link to this

"but evidently used here to describe a recess?"

Terry, at the present day, each Parliament can last a number of years, after which it's dissolved, either by an act of (nominally) the Sovereign or simply by the passage of the maximum time for which any one Parliament can last.

Within the life of each Parliament (assuming it lasts for a reasonable time), there'll be a number of "sessions", which themselves can each last for a significant time. Each session will be brought to an end by a prorogation by (nominally) the Sovereign and the subsequent one begun by a summoning, again (nominally) the Sovereign.

During each session, Parliament will obviously not be sitting continuously and so there'll be the usual adjournments.

The question of adjournments, unlike the questions of dissolution or prorogation, is an internal matter.

To return to your question now, the prorogation was a recess, but one ordered by the Sovereign, as opposed to one decided on internally.

At that time, the order was not merely nominally by the Sovereign, as it is today.

Terry F   Link to this

The "long prorogation" of Parliament clarified!

Thank you, Leslie Katz, for the lesson for this Colonial (and for others, I wot).

in Aqua Scripto   Link to this

Days proceedings:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?com...

dirk   Link to this

"taking Mr. Hater with me because of losing them"

L&M read this "because of losing time".

dirk   Link to this

The Rev. Josselin:

"This winter was the hardest I ever remembered, very wet and cold in octob. November on the 24th day whereof it began to freeze and so continued frost and snow very hard, until Feb. 18th. it began to thaw much but the frost scarce full out of the earth,"

dirk   Link to this

John Evelyn's diary today:

"To Lond: when I brought his Majestie a Copy of what pass’d at Tower-hill at the reception of the Sweeds Ambassador, to assert the reasons why for the future his Majestie would have that Ceremonie of the Coaches of foraine Ministers to be of the Introducers:"

in Aqua Scripto   Link to this

A nice simple Latin: Prorogo,-are,-avi,-atum vt, to extend ,prolong continue ; to defer. prorogatio, -onis f, extension, deferring;
prorogation
Parliament prorogued 23 april 1666
See how; parliaments sittings apr '60 thru apr '66
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/source.asp?pub...

The story here of it being done at the Kings Pleasure;
Commission to prorogue the Parliament.
"CAROLUS Secundus, Dei Gratiâ, Angliæ, Scociæ, Franciæ, & Hib. Rex, Fidei Defensor, &c. Charissimis Consanguineis & Consiliariis Nostris Edwardo .....

From: 'House of Lords Journal Volume 11: 23 April 1666', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 11: 1660-1666, pp. 704-05. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?com.... Date accessed: 19 February 2006.
rogo rogo are, ask for thy bill
of course rogus be a funeral fire.
pro used as an interjection be alas
pro rogus =/ alas the funeral fire.

in Aqua Scripto   Link to this

Parliament has not been sitting since 19th of May.
"I shall only add the King's Commands for the Prorogation of this Parliament till the Eighteenth Day of February. And this Parliament is prorogued till the Eighteenth Day of February next."

From: 'House of Lords Journal Volume 11: 19 May 1662', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 11: 1660-1666, pp. 468-77. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?com.... Date accessed: 19 February 2006.

Australian Susan   Link to this

So is the result of Sam's sums that the Navy Office will get extra money?

in Aqua Scripto   Link to this

Looking into an "Enron type Scandal "before it happens; neat the technique of diligently reviewing the papers without interjections of the Hempers, causing the well known confusion .
"...bought by him and partners upon account, wherein are many things worth my knowledge. So at noon to dinner, taking Mr. Hater with me because of losing them, and in the afternoon he and I alone at the office, finishing our account of the extra charge of the Navy, not properly belonging to the Navy..."
I be glad, there be no Cods-head involved?????

dirk   Link to this

Evelyn: "what pass’d at Tower-hill at the reception of the Sweeds Ambassador..."

The incident Evelyn is referring to took place on 30 Sptember 1661 [at least I can't think of any other incident he might be referring to!].
See:
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1661/09/30/

Evelyn's comment at the time:
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1661/10/01/#c23683

He seems to have taken his time to produce this report...

in Aqua Scripto   Link to this

Susan I dothe thinke it be that well known trick of putting in extra charges, hoping they will not be seen.
Man be, when it comes to submitting his bill will slip a few extras, then have his explanations ready when caught. [bin there and seen it dun]. It be much easier when the goods received by one and signed off by another departments, receivables and payables be two differing bosses and the clark be so down the list don't smell the rat and bill signer trusts the paper in front of him.
{ one of the reason's medicare bills be out of the cosmos, extra charges galore}

A. Hamilton   Link to this

Navy get extra money?

Perhaps as a form of blackmail. We Navy types say the Navy has cost only 374,743l. a- year, and on that expenditure we have not fully paid off the crews or kept the reserve ships fit and of course there is the Tangier mole not paid for,or the victualling of the garrison there, and yet the Navy has been charged something more (lets say 500,000 pounds) the overage of which we implicity impute to HRH, and we'll tell Parliament if the treasuruer doesn't cover our bills.

stolzi   Link to this

rogo rogo are, ask for thy bill
of course rogus be a funeral fire.
pro used as an interjection be alas
pro rogus =/ alas the funeral fire.

I'm assuming nobody took the etymology given by In Aqua Scripto for real, but just in case - "pro" is a prefix, often meaning something like "forth" - "rogare" is Latin for "to ask." As in "interrogate." The King asked the parliament to go forth and leave him alone for awhile. Until 18 February, to be precise. He'd probably like still less of them, but he knows what trouble that got his royal father into.

We see here how young Sam still is - to work all morning, and then from a noontime business dinner until eleven o'clock at night, and be "almost" weary!

JWB   Link to this

"...wherein are many things worth my knowledge..."
No, I think not. Sam's interest should be the price and quality of the hemp, period. Just now reading, this GW birthday, Fleming's account of Valley Forge & the incompetent politicised commissary.

in Aqua Scripto   Link to this

From one that writes in salt water :
Our Man Pepys enters OED for to-days entry.
b. transf. The time during which Parliament stands prorogued; the interval between successive sessions.
1663 PEPYS Diary 18 Feb., This day the Parliament met again, after their long prorogation. *
More on this delicious word [pro]rogue:
[Late ME. proroge, a. F. proroge-r, obs. F. prorogue-r (both 14th c. in Godef. Compl.), ad. L. pr re to prolong, extend, esp. a term of office; to defer; lit. to ask publicly, f. pro = rogare to ask
The etymological sense, according to Scheller, was perh. ‘to ask the people whether the term of an office or the like may be prolonged to a person’, as if to ask him on. But of this no example is extant in Latin.]
1. trans. To prolong, lengthen, extend (in time or duration); to cause to last longer; to continue, protract. Obs. (exc. as a Latinism).

1425 Rolls of Parlt. IV. 289 The which Graunte was lengthed and proroged att the last Parlement..for other two yeer.
c1510 MORE Picus Wks. 9/2 If he might haue had ye space of his life proroged
2. trans. To put off for a time, defer, postpone.
1592 SHAKES. Rom. & Jul. IV. i. 48
b. absol. or intr. To delay, procrastinate. Obs.
1593 NASHE Christ's T. 11b, Why doost thou proroge till thy wretched life be at his wayes end?
3. To discontinue the meetings of (a legislative or other assembly) for a time, definite or indefinite, without dissolving it; to dismiss by authority until the next session. Originally and chiefly in reference to the British Parliament.
Originally a particular application of sense 2; the meaning being to ‘put off, postpone’ the assembly or sittings of a parliament which had been summoned or was in session: cf. quot. 1878 in PROROGATION 2.
c1615 BACON Adv. Sir G. Villiers
ii. §28 By the king's authority alone, and by his writs are they [the two houses of peers and commons] assembled, and by him alone are they prorogued and dissolved; but each house may adjourn itself..
prorogate, v.
Chiefly Sc.; now only Sc. Law.

f ppl stem of L. prorogare : see PROROGUE.]
trans. = PROROGUE 1. Obs.
1. trans. = PROROGUE 1. Obs.
2. = PROROGUE 2, 3.

3. Sc. and Civil Law. To extend (the jurisdiction of a judge or court) to a cause in which it would otherwise be incompetent:
cf. PROROGATION 4a.
4. pa. pple. prorogate, app. used for ‘called, summoned’. Obs. rare.
prorogation

1. The action of lengthening in duration, or causing to last longer; extension of time; prolongation, protraction, further continuance. Now rare or Obs. exc. in Sc. Law.
2. The action of proroguing an assembly, esp. Parliament; discontinuance of meetings until the following session, without dissolution.
b. transf. The time during which Parliament stands prorogued; the interval between successive sessions.
*1663 PEPYS Diary 18 Feb., This day the Parliament met again, after their long prorogation.
3. The action of deferring to a later time; postponement. Obs. rare.
[a. L. pr tor, agent-n. f. pr re to PROROGUE.]
prorogator
One who prorogates.
(In quot. app. a meaningless jingle.)
1652 GAULE Magastrom. 376 Against all Merlinicall arrogators, prorogators, derogators.

Terry F   Link to this

So, does the issue remain whether "casting up with Captain Cocke their accounts of 500 tons of hemp brought from Riga" teaches Sam how to fix the books in calculating the Navy claims, OR whether he learns what to watch out for in dealing with merchants such as Captain Cocke?

As I read it, there is as yet no consensus among us as to what the "many things worth my knowledge" are...or?

in Aqua Scripto   Link to this

My Answer, be always follow the money trail, some put out aniseed [anse also good for letting the aire go free]to throw off the hunter and the hounds from the audit trail.

Todd Bernhardt   Link to this

Terry, I think the oversight of the hemp accounts and the "account of the extra charge of the Navy" are two separate efforts today by Sam, with his morning taken up by the former, and the afternoon/evening by the latter (which he and the other officrs started quite some time ago).

A. Hamilton   Link to this

prorogued

I'm tempted to ask, roguishly, whether the realm is in more trouble when Parliament is sitting or when it is not?

Leslie Katz   Link to this

Trouble in the realm

There's a quotation I remember to the following effect:

No man's life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session.

Jacqueline Gore   Link to this

Robert Gertz, I think your shrewd guess a little while back that Coventry was seeking to balance Charles' budget on the Navy's back is proving quite true.

slangist   Link to this

naval accompts
allegedly at the end of WWII the commandant of the naval district of new orleans found himself short many an item supposedly still on the strength. one of these was a tugboat. yes, a tugboat had disappeared, possibly sailed by mississippi river pirates under false paint to some other port. in any case, the intrepid admiral took it upon himself to lose said tugboat in the least likely place: namely, his breakage and loss accounts. so in a list of broken crockery at the admiral's mess, "plates, china, dinner, broken, 470," following the item, "boat, gravy, china, dinner, broken, 1," he caused to be inserted, "boat, tug, lost, 1," and sailed merrily on to retirement... or so the story went...

in Aqua Scripto   Link to this

Every civil servant starts out with one pencil, and when he turns in a stub he gets another,therefore in 3 months he has 10 nice new pencils ready if they be needed.

Slav   Link to this

As I read it, there is as yet no consensus among us as to what the “many things worth my knowledge” are…or?

in Aqua Scripto   Link to this

There can be no concensus as Samuell has not spelt out his problems, but he dothe know that he does not know, but he does smell some odor of rotting fish.
"...wherein are many things worth my knowledge..."
Samuel has not spelt out the information that he be needing to know that he is signing off on monies on real merchandise, or if the merchandise be flawed in some way.
Ch.Accts/CPA need broad knowledge to read the accounts payable and accounts receivable for every kind of nefarious schemes to skim monies from its owners.
Throughout history, Monies have been diverted to the wrong pockets and put into untouchable bank accounts.
One major scheme started in 1662 to stop the simple minded ones from collecting gold by using ones pen knife to peel off excess gold, one nick at time, it was to mill the edge of the coin.
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/pvg/goose.htm
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from off the goose.
The law demands that we atone
When we take things we do not own
But leaves the lords and ladies fine
Who take things that are yours and mine.
The poor and wretched don't escape
If they conspire the law to break;
This must be so but they endure
Those who conspire to make the law.
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common
And geese will still a common lack
Till they go and steal it back.

in Aqua Scripto   Link to this

Cost of hemp back in EI's day 1559; varied greatly in the same month, it came from Danzig,Amsterdam, Bruges;
No wonder Samuell be wanting to know more , he is certainly curious, takes a pinch of salt, haveing found out, he dothe need to know, the types and grades or quality.
Hemp imported in 1559 be a 1 £ a cwt [60 cwt £60] tuppence a pound approx.
blak Raven of Purmerend [Amsterdam]
Then another from Danzig ,hemp came at 18cwt at £ 48 or £2 13s 4d a cwt.
then 180 doz hemp £22 10s.[Bruges]
Then the Bark grey from Danzig, 10 cwt at £48 3s 4d & 20 cwt at £20 cwt. along with "sum" of sturgeon, 5 firkins [ small cask, 1/4 brl.[50lbs of matter ?]] at £7 6s.8d. lifted from

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?com.... Date accessed: 27 February 2006.

Terry Foreman   Link to this

Pepys drew up the conditions of the troublesome contract made by the Navy Board for 500 tons of Hemp with Sir William Rider, Wiliam Cutler and "Captain" George Cocke 19 June 1662. http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1662/06/19/

Terry Foreman   Link to this

"finishing our account of the extra charge of the Navy, not properly belonging to the Navy, since the King’s coming in to Christmas last;"

The computing of "the extra charge of the Navy, not properly belonging to the Navy" (e.g. charges for garrisons, and freightage payable by merchants, which the Navy Board accounted for but which were not strictly naval expenses) (L&M note ) was begun Saturday 7 February. http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1663/02/07/

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