Saturday 5 October 1661

At the office all the morning, then dined at home, and so staid at home all the afternoon putting up my Lord’s model of the Royal James, which I borrowed of him long ago to hang up in my room. And at night Sir W. Pen and I alone to the Dolphin, and there eat some bloat-herrings and drank good sack. Then came in Sir W. Warren and another and staid a while with us, and then Sir Arnold Brames, with whom we staid late and till we had drank too much wine. So home and I to bed pleased at my afternoon’s work in hanging up the shipp. So to bed.

22 Annotations

dirk   Link to this

Royal James

See background info
http://www.pepysdiary.com/encyclopedia/3124/#c2...

john lauer   Link to this

"So ... to bed ... So to bed."
Direct result of "... we had drank too much wine.".

vicente   Link to this

Bloaters are ungutted and salted herring slightly smoked
http://www.historyshelf.org/secf/silver/14.php

vicente   Link to this

Royall James was the spelling, I am led to believe. [all king?]
During the 1650s the navy began to order wooden scale models of all ships under construction. These were usually 48 times smaller than the real ship and were perfect in every detail.
In 1661 Pepys borrowed Lord Mountagu's model of the Royall James to hang in his room now we see he then restores it to His Lords room [at this date]after studying the model to make him more conversive with the building of ships he has his grammar so he takes his work very seriously too:
Notice does tell all one has to read between the lines.
P.S. the model has not survived.

Mary   Link to this

Where does the model hang?

According to my reading (and that of L&M) Pepys is hanging this model in his own room, not any room belonging to Sandwich. In other words, he has decided to keep this model on a very long loan indeed; it's now part of the furnishings as well as serving as a professional aide-memoire.

Robert Gertz   Link to this

Sam's collection grows...Though I'm surprised he took so long to get the model hung up in his "closet". I doubt Montague will be seeing his model returned any time in the near future.

Another night out with Penn...All in all the old sea dog seems to like the eager little clerk, perhaps the shared interest in music?

Pedro.   Link to this

Yarmouth Bloaters.

About 100 miles ENE of Brampton is the holiday resort of Great Yarmouth, and once great fishing port, famous for its bloaters. Nowadays the herring industry is in rapid decline.
At one time holidaymakers would ask for Yarmouth bloaters to be sent home, to arrive the next day, instead of a postcard. (Maybe Vincente will remember this?)

Stolzi   Link to this

I feel it very fortunate that he got the ship-model hung up BEFORE getting blotto today. (Horrid visions of askewness, sagging, crashing fall, disaster, catastrophe, matchwood)

Glyn   Link to this

GrahamT has put his photograph of a model ship on to the picture gallery at:

http://www.smartgroups.com/pictures/openpicture...

vicente   Link to this

bloaters nay, broads yea:

Grahamt   Link to this

Oh yes, I had forgotten about that.
Photography was not encouraged in the exhibition, so the lighting isn't too good as I couldn't use flash

vicente   Link to this

I misread the hanging & [mis]appropriation ["...which I borrowed of him long ago to hang up in my room..."]of model { reading elsewhere, it[model]} was in his [Sam's] possession, according to a source, to end of his life.

Glyn   Link to this

Hmm ... Graham - when you say that "photography was not encouraged" do I take it to mean that that is a euphemism and it was, in fact, forbidden? and that this was the action of a hardened criminal?

Can anyone tell us when the model of the Royal James was borrowed from Montagu? I've attempted to use the search function but always get an error message telling me that there is already a search underway.

Glyn   Link to this

I suppose this photo by Barbara Howard on the site's photo album is also of the Royal James since this is where it was sunk!

http://www.smartgroups.com/pictures/openpicture...

But why would anyone name a pub after a defeat, or at best a tie? (Sorry for the length of the link.)

Wim van der Meij   Link to this

It is possible that the model of the Royal James was half a ship. In Holland in the 17th century shipbuilders had half models to build a big ship from: the first half of a ship is exactly the same as the other half. That would explain the hanging of the model. A complete shipmodel does not invite one to 'hang' it.

vicente   Link to this

My understanding; the Royall James was burnt to the gun ports, in the Thames then rebuilt as another ship?? at a later date.[waste not, want not]
As for the English wisdom of a getting a thrashing, is to return and give a trashing, then mark it on the battle flag. Lose a battle and win the war, 'tis better than win the battle and lose the war. There is a comment to that effect in the Inter regnum that one could not lose a one battle with the King ,it was to the gallows ye go, no matter how many other battles ye won.['tis like life itself]

Mary   Link to this

In answer to Glyn's question.....

the model of the Royal James appears to have been acquired by Pepys on 14th June 1661.

Grahamt   Link to this

Glyn; got it in one ;-)

john lauer   Link to this

"his shipp" here, via Mary:
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1661/06/14/#c20181

Kevin Peter   Link to this

I take it that although the model belonged to Sandwich, it was one of those possessions that he had no particular use for. I might have been ignored or put in storage if Pepys hadn't asked for it.

It's probably more like a gift from Sandwich's and Pepys' point of view, except if Sandwich sees some use for it in the future, he can get it back.

Since Pepys had it for the rest of his life, apparently Sandwich wasn't ever interested in seeing it again.

Terry Foreman   Link to this

GrahamT has put his photograph of a model ship on Flickr in the Pepys Diary group:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/grahamt/106941240...

John G   Link to this

I think vincente means 'conversant'.

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