Thursday 9 June 1664

Up and at my office all the morning. At noon dined at home, Mr. Hunt and his kinswoman (wife in the country), after dinner I to the office, where we sat all the afternoon. Then at night by coach to attend the Duke of Albemarle about the Tangier ship. Coming back my wife spied me going home by coach from Mr. Hunt’s, with whom she hath gained much in discourse to-day concerning W. Howe’s discourse of me to him. That he was the man that got me to be secretary to my Lord; and all that I have thereby, and that for all this I never did give him 6d. in my life. Which makes me wonder that this rogue dare talk after this manner, and I think all the world is grown false. But I hope I shall make good use of it. So home to supper and to bed, my eyes aching mightily since last night.

12 Annotations

Paul Chapin   Link to this

Once again Sam confuses us with slippery pronouns. Is it Howe or Hunt that is bad-mouthing Sam? I think from the sense of the text it's Howe, but that seems strange if true. What role could Howe have had in Sam's appointment as secretary to my Lord, being Sam's "junior colleague" (as David Quidnunc quotes L&M in the notes on Howe)?

A. De Araujo   Link to this

"and I think all the world is grown false"
Me too.

Michael Robinson   Link to this

" ... I never did give him 6d. in my life"

Gossip at second-hand perhaps but this part at least has a ring of truth. Can anyone else remember an instance of SP voluntarily handing over cash?

Cumsalisgrano   Link to this

Must be better, our Liz be: "... Coming back my wife spied me going home by coach from Mr. Hunt's,..."
I dothe thinke Liza be told some porkies by our mann Howe, he be telling the when and why and what and who got Sam his luck.

Mary   Link to this

"I hope I shall make good use of it"

Yet again, Sam stores up a grudge for future reference and revenge. Company for Uncle Wight.

Andrew Hamilton   Link to this

from Mr. Hunt's, with whom she hath gained much in discourse to-day concerning W. Howe's discourse of me to him

I think the meaning is clear. Hunt has gossipped with Elizabeth about Howe's discourse about Sam to Hunt. But it is a bit Lewis Carrolish. Do you think Dodgson read Pepys? The holding of grudges seems quite like the character of the royals Alice encounters.

(( "These were the verses the White Rabbit read:--'They told me you had been to her, And mentioned me to him: She gave me a good character, But said I could not swim. He sent them word I had not gone (We know it to be true): If she should push the matter on, What would become of you?'"))

JWB   Link to this

handing over cash?

"...to church again, where we had an Oxford man give us a most impertinent sermon upon "Cast your bread upon the waters, &c...."

http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1662/02/02/

Terry F   Link to this

"Can anyone else remember an instance of SP voluntarily handing over cash?"

I did not, but a search for "gave" yielded this sole recent holiday occasion:

19 December 1663
"Thence by coach to my shoemaker's and paid all there, and gave something to the boys' box against Christmas." http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1663/12/19/

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"Coming back my wife spied me going home by coach from Mr. Hunt's, with whom she hath gained much in discourse to-day concerning W. Howe's discourse of me to him."

Sounds like Bess went to the Hunts after dinner and seeing Sam coming home by coach waved him over and gave him the details of Hunt's discourse of Howe's tales.

Also sounds like Creed may have been speaking to Howe about Sam's demands for "proper" acknowledgement of help with finagling his accounts. If Howe did drop a favorable word or two in Montagu's ear back in 1660 regarding Sam as seagoing secretary it would be natural he might feel a bit unappreciated.

So Bess is getting other accounts about her gentle and parfait knight...Spoiler...

Does explain some future remarks of hers as to Sam's two-faced nature...

***
"So I understand from my wife that I am an ungrateful wretch, eh Howe? You obtained my place for me, eh? You? Who couldn't get my Lord's consent to going as my clerk?"

"Ah, Pepys...I..."

"And I who saved you and your mates from the disaster of my Lord's failing to look like himself in the matter of Chelsea Betty. At great risk, I might note. I think perhaps I should inform my Lord...As a return of your kindness...Who it was who first urged me to speak with him. I've no doubt he'll be deeply grateful to you."

"Ah...Ha, ha...I...I never said any such thing, Pepys. Who could have spread such a rumor?"

"Hunt says you spoke of it to him and others yourself...Is my Lord in?"

"Ah...An error of interpretation on Hunt's part. Pepys, I must beg you to overlook such foolishness and not let rumor ruin our years of staunch friendship..."

"'Greedy little ungrateful tightwad bastard' was the expression, I believe?"

Robert Gertz   Link to this

"...and I think all the world is grown false."

"I shall weep for thee. For thy fall methinks is like unto another Fall of Man." -Henry V.

Dave   Link to this

"handing over cash"

This event takes place long after the diary years, so I hope this is not considered a spoiler.

On Sunday 13th September 1702, SP wrote a very long letter to Dr Charlett, The Master of University College Oxford, the letter is far too long to post here but the gist of the letter is thus.

Pepys had commissioned a painting by Sir Godfrey Kneller,and was donating the portrait to the University, the subject of the portrait was the eminent mathematician Dr John Wallis.

http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/Biographies...

In the letter Pepys explains that Kneller is very satisfied with the painting, he goes on to say that it was on Knellers recommendation that the frame was laquered and not "guilt".
"nor lett its comeing in a lackered frame lead you to thinke otherwise, for I could have sent it in the same with my Lord of Ormonde's guilt for lesse mony"
He also paid for the packing and transport of the painting, and sent along one of his own workman, a Mr Moore with the following instructions "to governe him selfe entirely in what hee has to doe by what orders hee shall receive from your selfe and my honoured friend Dr Hudson; and haveing soe done, to your satisfactions and with-out losse of time, to pack up his pipes and come away, without dareing to lett the University know the charge of one penny on any account relateing to this matter, or any service,travell or expence of his owne concerned in it."

On 26th September 1702, Dr Wallis wrote Pepys the following letter.

Worthy Sir, If I had not been before acquainted with your generosity and innate goodness, I should have been at a loss to think what should move you to do me the honour, and put your-self to so great a charge on that account. But great men will do great things, and shew great expressions of their kindness to those whom they are pleased to favour, a great deal beyond what they can pretend to merit. I did not see the persons who (by your order) did accompany the picture; otherwise I ought by them to have returned my thankfull acknowledgement of the honour done me in placing so noble a picture of me in so eminent a place. I trust Master Vice-chancellor did by them return you the thanks of the University for that noble present. Which I hope they will be carefull long to preserve, as a lasting memorial of your munificence and of the great skill of Sir Godfrey Kneller (which is highly commended) when I shall be forgotten. The great care you took that the University should not be suffered (on this occasion)
to be at one penny charge, is a piece of civility so like yourself that it will not be easy to find a precedent.My bare thanks (which I humbly tender) is a thing so inconsiderable that I should be ashamed to offer it, if I had ought else (worthy of you) to be presented from,
Sir, Your much obliged and very humble servant,
John Wallis.

For the much honoured Samuel Pepys, Esquire, at his house in Clapham.

A full length portrait by the most famous painter of the day, a laquered frame, packaging, delivery, a workmans wages for a few days, what cost? we will never know, but it was certainly more than sixpence.

Both these letters came from " Samuel Pepys letters and the Second Diary " Edited by R.G. Howarth.

pepf   Link to this

Not quite so costive as W. Howe is suggesting (he was worth 500l. in 1661):

"In the morning to my Bookseller’s to bespeak a Stephens’s Thesaurus, for which I offer 4l., to give to Paul’s School;"
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1661/12/27/

"and paid at another shop 4l. 10s. for “Stephens’s Thesaurus Graecae Linguae,” given to Paul’s School"
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1662/12/24/

"Dr. Crumlum did me much honour by telling many what a present I had made to the school, shewing my Stephanus, in four volumes, cost me 4l. 10s."
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1663/02/04/

Log in to post an annotation.

If you don't have an account, then register here.