12 Annotations

Jesse   Link to this

"was very kindly treated by her"

With their close relationship why would this merit note? A short entry for the day - perhaps a little filler?

Australian Susan   Link to this

"was very kindly treated by her"
I think Sam is still a bit insecure in his relations with the aristocracy (even the Montagus) and records instances of favour being shown, because he still can't quite believe his increase in status. This was a very status conscious society and Sam would have been anxious to behave correctly to avoid causing offence. However long he has known the Montagus, he always remembers that they are now aristocracy, and he is not.

vicente   Link to this

Status and correct procedures were taken very seriously by me lauds in the house of same, an example: the uppitty house of commons did upset the rightous lairds sitting in chambers:
"..Breach of Privilege in H. C. in naming the Time and Place for the Conference.
The Lords conceived, that the House of Commons by this Message, demanding a present Free Conference, and appointing the Place likewise to be in the Painted Chamber, is a Breach of the Privileges of this House; it appertaining of Right to the Lords, to appoint both the Time and the Place: Therefore it is ORDERED, To send to the House of Commons, to desire a present Conference, touching the Matter of the last Message from them; and the Lord Chancellor to assert the Right and Privilege of this House in this Particular, and to desire that Messages of this Nature may be prevented for the future. And, for the Saving of Time at this Conference, to give the House of Commons a Free Conference upon the Subject Matter of the late Free Conference...."

From: British History Online
Source: House of Lords Journal Volume 11: 8 June 1661. House of Lords Journal Volume 11, ().
--- Pecking order and protocol had to be understood and to be adhered, other wise the next time you may be totally ignored or even finding thyself to be garroted, the Revolution was over and now back to organised structured and ant colony following the orders of [queen ] king to the Tee.

Paul Chapin   Link to this

Status and correct procedures were taken very seriously

Another aspect of 17th century life that hasn't changed much in the 21st. In the U.S. Congress, the Senate and the House have their distinct prerogatives, and each body is quick to remind the other of that whenever a possible breach is perceived.

Ann   Link to this

"After dinner to the office, and there till late at night. . . . Here I staid till late, and so home and to bed."

What, exactly, constitutes "late"? There's no street lights, little home illumination. Surely, he didn't stay at the office 'til 9 or 10, then show up at the Battens, did he? I know we've been having discussions about what time "dinner" is at this time, which can influence what someone may consider as "late."

Here in Missouri, and when I lived in Alabama, some "country" folk refer to anytime after noon as "evening," something which confused me greatly at first. Could something like this be going on? Can "late" mean what we would consider late afternoon or early evening?

Any thoughts?

JWB   Link to this

My Lady(Jemima)
I don't think it's Sam's insecurity, but Jemima's. Montagu's sailing off, leaving her to fend for self for who knows how long. Sam's her right hand man. She's naturally keeping on his good side.

JWB   Link to this

Addendum
Recall their relationship during Fith Monarchist putsch when Montagu absent.

Bob T   Link to this

After dinner to the office, and there till late at night

In Newfoundland too, evening is anytime after 12 noon, until about 5 or 6pm, when it becomes night. I heard from and English professor, that Newfoundland english was as close to Elizabethan english as you could get. So Sam may have been dividing up his day in the same way.

I'm inclined to think that in Sam's day, the main meal of the day, dinner, tea, or "suppah" as it is called in the Maritimes, was at about 5pm. In eastern Canada today, "suppah" is as close to five o'clock as you can make it; except on formal occassions. Then it is called "dinner", and people wear socks, use knives and forks, and all that fancy stuff :-)

Mary   Link to this

Dinner time.

In Pepys'time, the main meal of the day was the midday dinner. The evening meal was altogether lighter and quite often a cold collation. During the 18th century, dinner gradually moved to a later time, but it was not until the coming of efficient gas lighting in the 19th century and the 'invention' of afternoon tea that dinner, for the middle and upper classes, became an evening meal and the midday meal was called luncheon or lunch.

Amongst the working class, the midday dinner remained the main meal of the day for a very long time; the evening meal would be called supper or high tea. The question of the name applied to one's mid-day meal has remained a rough social indicator up to the present day.

Australian Susan   Link to this

To illustrate Mary's point:
In Jane Austen's uncompleted novel fragment, The Watsons, there is a scene where an up-to-the-minute young gentlemen calls on old-fashioned friends (the Watson family). There he finds them about to have their evening tea (having dined at 3pm) and he remarks that he is only just going home to his (fashionably late) dinner at 8 or 9pm. He stays until old Mr Watson's supper basin of gruel is brought in and "he had the pleasure of observing to Mr Watson that he should leave him at supper, while he went home to dinner". He stays talking, however, until forced to go for "if he stayed he must sit down to supper...which to a man whose heart had long been fixed on calling his next meal a dinner, was quite insupportable". JA is poking fun at fashionable, and to her mind, silly habits. The reader is encouraged to laugh at Tom Musgrave, but also to think him slightly unprincipled.

vicente   Link to this

Dinner was when one could get the mob of family to-gether. Then the time showed thems that care which of the the stratas one circled in.

john lauer   Link to this

Jane Austen's Musgrave sounds very ill-mannered,
rather than laughable and unprincipled.

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