Friday 3 March 1664/65
Up, and abroad about several things, among others to see Mr. Peter Honiwood, who was at my house the other day, and I find it was for nothing but to pay me my brother John’s Quarterage. Thence to see Mrs. Turner, who takes it mighty ill I did not come to dine with the Reader, her husband, which, she says, was the greatest feast that ever was yet kept by a Reader, and I believe it was well. But I am glad I did not go, which confirms her in an opinion that I am growne proud.
Thence to the ’Change, and to several places, and so home to dinner and to my office, where till 12 at night writing over a discourse of mine to Mr. Coventry touching the Fishermen of the Thames upon a reference of the business by him to me concerning their being protected from presse.
Then home to supper and to bed.
23 Annotations
First Reading
Pedro • Link
"Mr. Coventry touching the Fishermen of the Thames upon a reference of the business by him to me concerning their being protected from presse."
Well you can't expect the old cockneys to go without your jellied eels!
In the late 17th Century the Thames was so full of young sprat and herring that whitebait suppers became very fashionable.
http://www.thamesweb.com/page.php…
Terry F • Link
"But I am glad I did not go, which confirms her in an opinion that I am growne proud."
Why is SP proud of being so regarded?!
JWB • Link
Reader
In the beginning of John Stubbs's bio of John Dunne, Inns of Court explored. Stubbs writes: "A fashion grew up, in the occasional lectures or 'readings' ...for presenting a great many intricate cases, often bearing only slight relation to the statute itself' The procedures such readings invloved may well have had some influence of Donne's way of often expressing things in the most farfetched manner conceivable." Sam has not shown much interest in farfetched rhetoric. Then again he may have not wanted to re-associated with Inns of Court where as youth he peddled his father's wares.
cape henry • Link
"Why is SP proud of being so regarded?!" My take, TF, would be that since the Turners were rather successful themselves, and she possibly self important about it as well, Pepys was just engaging in a bit of tit-for-tat.
Robert Gertz • Link
I read it as Sam simply doesn't care if Cousin Jane thinks him proud-he no longer must do such things if His Pepyship deems them beneath him.
Yes, no longer does Samuel Pepys, lordly CoA, but a step away from God Almighty himself...(and with a personal line to the fellow to give Him pats for those steady increases in income) require such trivialities as devoted friends, loyal and caring relatives, loving and affectionate wife. A Cousin Jane to take pity on him and save his life? PNonsense, he can buy three such... A loving Bess to share life with? Bah, a mere troublesome employee, easily replaced if ever necessary... Why should his wound reopen he would with but a wave of lordly hand reseal it himself.
"Pepys, old fellow...You're out. Creed's..." Beaming Creed standing by... "..in. And we'll have to confiscate that 1270Ls in your...Er the Navy Office's house. King's money, you know."
"Bess!!! Cousin Jane!!!!"
Todd Bernhardt • Link
"I am growne proud"
I think Sam might be admitting to the Diary that the fact that he's glad he didn't go to "the greatest feast that ever was yet kept by a Reader" confirms her suspicion that he has indeed grown proud.
JWB • Link
"protected from presse"
Sam as an organ of Hobbe's Levithan, opining on exemptions to the presse rather than on the presse itself. Meanwhile Locke is in perpetual medical studies @ Oxford.
CGS • Link
You take the fishermen and it be Easter , the price of eels be going up, no dover sole for the Palace, Palmer will scream if she cannot have her winkles.
The Bishops will cannonize us not canonize us.
there must be fishes, such a waste of able bodied men , wasted on furling sails.
No pressing of the fishermen they can be spared getting ironed too..
GrahamT • Link
"...confirms her in an opinion that I am growne proud.”
This is pride as one of the seven deadly sins; the pride that cometh before a fall; not pride in a job well done.
Today we might say he is up himself; has ideas above his station.
Mrs Turner is upset that Pepys now thinks himself above their company - growne proud - and points out he missed a great feast. While Pepys agrees that might be the case, frankly my dears, he doesn't give a damn.
Robin Peters • Link
"Up, and abroad about several things, among others to see Mr. Peter Honiwood, who was at my house the other day, and I find it was for nothing but to pay me my brother John’s Quarterage"
And some one coming to pay money is nothing?
Doesn't sound like our man to me.
Carl in Boston • Link
Fellow Pepysians:
Today's entry in the Diary of Samuel Pepys for March 4, 1664 lays out our aims and objectives. Our cause is just, our victory is sure. Today we stand in a circle, shake hands, and March Forth.
Robert Gertz • Link
Rather sweet to see Jane Turner sticking up so for hubs John...She may much prefer to hang out in her own London home rather than his Yorkshire place but not even beloved cousin Sam disses Mr. T.
Theophilia will put Sam in his place, I've little doubt.
Robert Gertz • Link
"Rather a late night wasn't it, Bess?"
"Was it? Well, Betsy and I were rather busy."
"Busy, eh? What shops were doing such booming business after eight?"
"We had to show my things to Mama. And then we went to dinner. I wanted to talk a bit with our pretty friend. By the way, that must have been some trip to Portsmouth. She couldn't stop talking about it."
"Eh, heh...But..."
"She finds you very charming...Sweet in your clumsy little way. Says you're clearly scared to death of the great Court ladies but to keep an eye on the shopgirls and barbers' assistants."
"She what?"
"Also, at least when preggers, she can't hold her ale well, so watch out. But she did offer me James' services after our ninth mug, should I ever be curious as to which one of us is mucking up."
"Tole her I'd think about it..."
A. Hamilton • Link
Mr. Peter Honiwood, ... was at my house the other day, and I find it was for nothing but to pay me my brother John’s Quarterage.
Sam seems to forget that Peter Honiwood, brother of the famous Dean, has come by before to make a small payment connected to brother John. It is left unclear why. Perhaps John has been apprenticed somewhere? It is also not clear why Sam, not father John, gets the quarterage (a sum paid quarterly). Sam apparently thinks it is a sum beneath his notice, perhaps in shame that John's service does not fetch a higher price from Mr. Honiwood and "his friends." This could be read as another indication that Sam has grown "proud."
See entry for May 4, 1664:
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
"Only in the afternoon comes Mr. Peter Honiwood to see me and gives me 20s., his and his friends’ pence for my brother John, which, God forgive my pride, methinks I think myself too high to take of him; but it is an ungratefull pitch of pride in me, which God forgive."
Mary • Link
this quarterage.
Honiwood seems to be paying this small, quarterly sum for the rental of rooms in the old Pepys house in Salisbury Court. This small income represents some kind of allowance that is made to John Pepys Jr. whilst he is still studying in Cambridge.
Honiwood is hardly likely to travel all the way to Huntingdonshire to pay such a small sum, nor is John Sr. likely to travel all the way to London to collect it quarter by quarter. Therefore Sam accepts the payment on the family's behalf and (we hope) sends the money to his brother (by safe hand, with the carrier?) at a later date.
A. Hamilton • Link
Quarterage
Mary, many thanks for your illumination. I had considered the question why Sam might be receiving a payment that would appear to have been owed to another member of the family, and your explanation of the arrangement being for the convenience of Mr. Honiwood seems right to me. But I am left wondering anew why Samuel would consider the transaction embarrassing.
Mary • Link
More quarterage.
I suspect he finds it embarrassing because it reminds him that his father is now living in reduced circumstances, and brother Tom made no financial fist at all of running the family business. Sam may be doing well himself, but this small transaction reminds him that the rest of the family is of very little account in the world and recalls his own humble origins.
JWB • Link
presse
We know that thoughout 17th century Virginia coastal towns could not grow their populations because of impressment & fear of impressment. I wonder if the Dutch new New Yorkers watermen are concerned, if the van der Bildts are dug in on Staaten Island or moved over to Jersey shore & inland?
CGS • Link
OED: 1389 thru 2001 usage Of course SP gets and entry:
QUARTER n. + -AGE suffix. Cf. post-classical Latin quarteragium quarterly payment (1274, 1477 in British sources), Old French or Middle French quarterage type of charge, seigneurial right to a quarter of the harvests of vassals (14th cent.).]
1. Payment made quarterly; an instance of this; a contribution, subscription, tax, or other charge paid by a person every quarter. Now chiefly arch. or hist.
2. A sum paid to, or received by, a person every quarter; a quarter's wages, allowance, pension, etc. Now hist.
1667 S. PEPYS Diary 8 Jan. (1974) VIII. 8 My uncle Thomas with me to receive his quarterage.
3. Quarters, place of lodging or residence; quartering of troops, or the expense of this. Also in extended use. Obs.
Second Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"We know that thoughout 17th century Virginia coastal towns could not grow their populations because of impressment & fear of impressment. I wonder if the Dutch new New Yorkers watermen are concerned"
JWB, there may not be many (if any) "Dutch new New Yorkers watermen" to be pressed: "While the Dutch did not immigrate in large numbers to New Amsterdam, those who did immigrate were typically members of displaced groups like French Protestants, Jews, and Germans which resulted in quite a heterogeneous population." http://americanhistory.about.com/…
The Dutch would have been the proprietors and would have looked like it:
https://www.google.com/search?q=n…
Late last August the English captured New Amsterdam.
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New…
Terry Foreman • Link
"I did not come to dine with the Reader, her husband, which, she says, was the greatest feast that ever was yet kept by a Reader"
Reader's feasts at the Inns of Court became extravagant in the 1660s and were shortly afterwards abandoned, along with the public readings themselves.
(L&M footnote)
Terry Foreman • Link
" to pay me my brother John’s Quarterage."
See https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/… and https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/…
San Diego Sarah • Link
I take it no copy of Pepys' recommendation to Coventry exists. I suspect he wanted to keep the Thames fishermen in place.