Tuesday 9 February 1663/64
Up and to the office, where sat all the morning. At noon by coach with Mr. Coventry to the ’Change, where busy with several people. Great talke of the Dutch proclaiming themselves in India, Lords of the Southern Seas, and deny traffick there to all ships but their owne, upon pain of confiscation; which makes our merchants mad. Great doubt of two ships of ours, the “Greyhound” and another, very rich, coming from the Streights, for fear of the Turkes. Matters are made up between the Pope and the King of France; so that now all the doubt is, what the French will do with their armies.
Thence home, and there found Captain Grove in mourning for his wife, and Hawly, and they dined with me. After dinner, and Grove gone, Hawly and I talked of his mistress, Mrs. Lane, and I seriously advising him and inquiring his condition, and do believe that I shall bring them together.
By and by comes Mr. Moore, with whom much good discourse of my Lord, and among other things told me that my Lord is mightily altered, that is, grown very high and stately, and do not admit of any to come into his chamber to him, as heretofore, and that I must not think much of his strangeness to me, for it was the same he do to every body, and that he would not have me be solicitous in the matter, but keep off and give him now and then a visit and no more, for he says he himself do not go to him now a days but when he sends for him, nor then do not stay for him if he be not there at the hour appointed, for, says he, I do find that I can stand upon my own legs and I will not by any over submission make myself cheap to any body and contemptible, which was the doctrine of the world that I lacked most, and shall follow it. I discoursed with him about my money that my Lord hath, and the 1000l. that I stand bound with him in, to my cozen Thomas Pepys, in both which I will get myself at liberty as soon as I can; for I do not like his being angry and in debt both together to me; and besides, I do not perceive he looks after paying his debts, but runs farther and farther in.
He being gone, my wife and I did walk an houre or two above in our chamber, seriously talking of businesses. I told her my Lord owed me 700l., and shewed her the bond, and how I intended to carry myself to my Lord. She and I did cast about how to get Captain Grove for my sister, in which we are mighty earnest at present, and I think it would be a good match, and will endeavour it. So to my office a while, then home to supper and to bed.
29 Annotations
First Reading
Paul Chapin • Link
"which makes our merchants mad"
To our modern ears, this sounds like they were annoyed about it, but the word "mad" was much stronger in Sam's time, meaning (sensu strictu) insane, or in this context, outraged.
Ruben • Link
"did walk an houre or two above in our chamber"
may be it is "did talk an houre...
Mary • Link
"did walk an hour or two..."
The L&M edition confirms that 'walk' is the correct reading.
Not so surprising. All those long galleries in Tudor houses were used for indoor 'walks' and as late as the 19th century a Jane Austen heroine could be invited to 'take a turn or two about the room' after dinner. Those who had homes spacious enough might regularly take a little indoor exercise in this way.
Ruben • Link
"did walk an hour or two..."
The L&M edition confirms that 'walk' is the correct reading.
Interesting.
Still, an hour or two? Indeed a very big house, or may be they had a gym at home?
alanB • Link
No. James kept to the palaces!
I too have wondered at the size of our own dwelling. In encouraging the kids to bed they usually answer that they are on their way. This can sometimes take several hours to complete. Space is elastic in some dimensions.
Xjy • Link
Sex and politics
Match-making for "dependent" women (sister and mistress), need to clear the deck with patron's debt to self (put not thy trust in princes!), threats from the Turk (Med) and the Dutchman (East Indies) and looming threat from France (unemployed armies). Women, money and war - ie sex domestic and external, and politics domestic and external. No wonder we keep reading... :-)
Robert Gertz • Link
"Great talke of the Dutch proclaiming themselves in India, Lords of the Southern Seas, and deny traffick there to all ships but their owne, upon pain of confiscation; which makes our merchants mad."
Victory to the Republic! Though it does seem a bit overmuch unless the boys at the Hague have suddenly trebled their fleet or developed a superseaweapon.
"The new Drebbel Class V unterseaboot will make us the Invincible Lords of the Sea!"
And now that loose cannon, Louis XIV with his army free to do mischief. Should make for an interesting year.
Robert Gertz • Link
"By and by comes Mr. Moore, with whom much good discourse of my Lord..."
Interesting that not only is Sam now fairly appreciative of Moore as opposed to his resentment of Moore's and Howe's attitude yesterday but Moore's thinking... "I can stand upon my own legs..." so echoes Sam's. Seems like Sandwich has been treating everyone rather coldly since Sam's letter, very likely suspecting everyone in his entourage close to Sam to be a party to it.
A major move for our boy, cutting the ties that bind to cousin Ed.
***
"...my wife and I did walk an houre or two above in our chamber, seriously talking of businesses. I told her my Lord owed me 700l., and shewed her the bond, and how I intended to carry myself to my Lord. She and I did cast about how to get Captain Grove for my sister, in which we are mighty earnest at present..."
Nice bit again showing that Sam does respect Bess' judgment. I imagine she blanched a little learning of the 700ls out to our card-playing, spendthrift Lord.
Grove and Pall? Hmmn...
"Well, we could have them over together on Valentine's Day." Bess ponders... "I could loan Pall a dress."
"Ok..."
"Keep the Madiera following and you keep talking about how you see Grove doing so well in association with you at the Navy."
"Right."
"Then when they're both totally plastered..."
ruizhe • Link
"Victory to the Republic! Though it does seem a bit overmuch unless the boys at the Hague have suddenly trebled their fleet or developed a superseaweapon."
According to the Wikipedia articles that I read on the Anglo-Dutch Wars (really a great read!), the Dutch at that time had as many ships as all the other countries in Europe combined.
The English, though, could counter with 9 first-class line ships that had more firepower than any Dutch ship (and which were nearly indestructable).
jeannine • Link
"Hawly and I talked of his mistress, Mrs. Lane"
Obviously a typo in the Wheatley translation as it should read
"Hawly and I talked of MY mistress, Mrs. Lane..."
Pedro • Link
"Dutch proclaiming themselves in India, Lords of the Southern Seas, and deny traffick there to all ships but their owne, upon pain of confiscation;"
"In 1656, Colombo fell to the Dutch, and in 1663, the Portuguese lost Cochin to the Dutch. Competition with the British East India Company had led to the loss of Hormuz earlier.
Very quickly, the Dutch and then the English attempted to replace the monopoly of the Portuguese with a monopoly of their own. This led each of them to form their own fortified settlements along the chief trading routes as alternatives to the former Portuguese trading bastions. At first, the Dutch appeared to be more successful than their British and French rivals, and succeeded in establishing their pre-eminence in Indonesia, and once they had outmaneuvered the Portuguese, also came to dominated the shipping out of Gujarat and Sind. It was now the Dutch that imposed their will on most Indian shippers, exacting the taxes that were earlier levied by the Portuguese. At the same time, each of Portugal's European rivals began setting up local factories and trade outlets that matched or exceeded Goa."
http://india_resource.tripod.com/…
cumsalisgrano • Link
The Quad[drangle][Outside] and the ambulacrum [Hallways or passageways long] were very popular with those discussing problems of import [not for the carrion]. It was ideal for those Establishments that required the exchange of information and so prevent lipreaders and large ears from making notes, the carrion of the day could only report that A was in B's company and his expression told the the tale.
Leaks could not be had, as there be no hard or soft copy to be filed in quad, marked not for eyes or ears of those that have no rights.
Now only Monks and Reverends would do the circuit with a read in hand thereby allowing the the brain to digests a few facts without the noise or interference.
Now this precious resource and means to keep lean be lost to those that need the space to make income, it be replaced by a padded chair, cookies, pot de eau, and a conference table, and means to accumulate and preserve calories.
Robert Gertz • Link
Hawly...
One wonders at Sam's faith that either Betty will not speak of their affair or Hawly will keep mum should she prove talkative.
"And how is your good mistress, Mr. Hawly? Are we to hear of a wedding shortly between you and the lady? Sam'l keeps talking high of how he brought you and...Beg pardon, what is her name?"
"Very well, very well indeed Mrs. P. But as your husband knows all too well, eh Sam?; our good Betty Lane's a lady who prefers a tumble and touse over the chair to the steady grind of matrimony. Eh, you ole fox..." Merry poke.
"Ah, heh, ha." Sam, brightly.
"Must've been quite a relief for you that she wasn't, you know...In the way?...After your boy's last romp with her, I mean. Can be a bit sticky such things...Our boy here bein', as he is, a man of import now." Hawly, innocently.
"Ha, ha, HA! Hawly, you silly rogue! Come along now and lets go discuss our matters in my office. Now, lad...Tis a busy time. Lets be off..."
"In what...Way?" Bess, coldly... Blocking door.
***
Robert Gertz • Link
"You stupid idiot!!" Sam glares at a somewhat bewildered Hawly in the upstairs hall, Bess having run to her room, slamming and locking door.
"But...You said...She'd not minded your bit of romp...As here in the Court, folks was broad-minded about such things." Hawly blinks.
"I lied, you god-damned arse! Did you really believe that horse's... I handed you?"
Cries from behind the door...
"Bess?! Darling..."
"Well...Pardonnez-moi." Hawly frowns "I thought you were an honest man, Pepys. And everyone knows what goes on at Court these days. I should say I'm rather the decent fellow here, bein' willing as I was to overlook the lady's little oats-sowin' with you."
"Bess?! Hawly was just being a silly clown..." Hiss "Tell her you were mocking me, you idiot!!"
"Well, I like this. Here, I put myself out for a friend...Who was not there I might note when I expected his help several years ago...And this is the thanks I be gettin'?"
***
Bradford • Link
Pepys Plays Pandarus. Watch this space.
Can anyone remember a previous occasion when Sam confided in Elizabeth such specific information about their finances?
Glyn • Link
I don't think that we should assume of Betty Lane as being 'faithful' to Pepys (which would probably scare him). Why should she be.
It may be that she and Hawley have been lovers as well, and Pepys is acting as a genuine friend in trying to make them commit to each other (or am I being naive here?).
Bryan M • Link
or am I being naive here?
Glyn, I think Sam himself answered your question on 22 December:
"I did go to Westminster Hall, and there met Hawley, and walked a great while with him. Among other discourse encouraging him to pursue his love to Mrs. Lane, while God knows I had a roguish meaning in it."
Could it have been Hawley who was flinging stones at the window of a certain Rhenish wine-house last June?
dirk • Link
From a newsletter to Sir George Lane
Whitehall, 9 February 1664
"... Mr. Henry Neville [author of Plato Redivivus; a Dialogue Concerning Government; of the satire upon Cromwell, entitled 'Shuffling, Cutting, and Dealing'; and of other political tracts] hath leave to go beyond sea, giving security not to return to England. ..."
What would England have done without the colonies? Makes it so easy to get rid of some very irritating people...
Source:
The Carte Papers, Bodleian Library
http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/s…
cumsalisgrano • Link
Every power structure needs its own Siberean oassis to keep the pot from boiling over. 'Tis the art of a Politico/magician.
Thanks Dirk for that quote.
Australian Susan • Link
It was not having the American Colonies to transport people to that propelled the English Govt to develop Australia as a prison with the sending of the First Fleet. Nowadays a criminal record is not compulsory for settlement here.
Just for the record: the youngest adult [sic] transported in the First Fleet was 13. (she'd stolen lace).
Second Reading
Terry Foreman • Link
"the Dutch proclaiming themselves in India, Lords of the Southern Seas, and deny traffick there to all ships but their owne, upon pain of confiscation"
See http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1…
Terry Foreman • Link
"did walk an hour or two..."
"All those long galleries in Tudor houses were used for indoor 'walks' and as late as the 19th century a Jane Austen heroine could be invited to 'take a turn or two about the room' after dinner. Those who had homes spacious enough might regularly take a little indoor exercise in this way."
Indeed, Mary! And a way to keep warm in winter in under-heated indoor spaces. A seated chat would hardly do that!
And the 'walks' indoors or out (in gardens or parks) were ways to have private conversations of length with the conversants known -- advertising the granting of access and hierarchy.
San Diego Sarah • Link
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1… -- Saturday 6 February 1663/64
"..., and so at noon to the ‘Change, where I met Mr. Coventry, the first time I ever saw him there, and after a little talk with him and other merchants, I up and down about several businesses, ..."
Three days later Pepys and Coventry are at the Exchange again. It shows how important such gathering places were to business and intelligence. Today we look at our cell phones every 10 minutes. I prefer Pepys method. Of course, they had to deal with "fake news" without the help of Snopes.
arby • Link
Why the difference between the 1000£ that he stands "bound" and the 700£ bond he shows Bess? More than one bond, didn't want her to know the full extent?
San Diego Sarah • Link
I wondered the same thing, Arby ... and then realized that I have occasionally shown my husband a new pair of shoes, when in fact I have bought two pairs. I tucked the other pair away for later -- "oh, you like them? I bought them a couple of months ago ...". Sometimes expensive revelations are better made in smaller doses.
Louise Hudson • Link
Rueben: Ruben on 10 Feb 2007 • Link • Flag
"did walk an hour or two..."
The L&M edition confirms that 'walk' is the correct reading.
"Interesting.
Still, an hour or two? Indeed a very big house, or may be they had a gym at home?"
I expect they went back and forth or round and round over the same area many times.
As for Sam's discourse with Mr. Moore, Sam often gets hopelessly lost in a sea of pronouns--as do I in reading it. Without spending more time than I have, trying to make head or tail of the story, I usually move on, having come to no conclusion as to what Sam was going on about. I chalk up losing the plot occasionally to the fun of reading Pepys!
JayW • Link
Why the difference between the 1000£ that he stands "bound" and the 700£ bond he shows Bess?
I took this as two separate matters. Sam 'stands bound with Sandwich' in a bond for £1,000 to Thomas Pepys - who lent money to Mountagu in 1658 according to the information page about him. Then there is the £700 which Sam has loaned directly to Sandwich himself. In the event that Sandwich defaulted on both bonds Sam would be left with nothing.
San Diego Sarah • Link
"... Mr. Henry Neville ... hath leave to go beyond sea, giving security not to return to England. ..."
Never heard of Henry Neville, an MP during the Interregnum, before and find he was another in the band of pamphlet writers who loved to upset everyone.
On this occasion he was locked up in the Tower, suspected of being in a plot ... my guess is the Derwentdale/Farnley Wood plot because of the timing.
According to Wikipedia and the following article Neville didn't go to "the colonies" ... he chose to go to Italy, and returned in 1668. So much for never returning. And I think we all agree that a trip to Italy is preferable to having your head cut off or hanging.
https://thehistorywoman.com/henry…
What I found interesting in Gaby Mahlberg's paper:
"My focus will be on three key republican figures forced by circumstances to spend time abroad: Henry Neville in Italy, Edmund Ludlow in Switzerland, and Algernon Sidney, who lived in France but also travelled in other European countries.
"All three established important, at times overlapping political and intellectual networks in their countries of exile, and published works that were translated into various European languages. Nevertheless, the historiography of British republicanism has centered on transatlantic traditions and neglected European networks despite obvious links to the Continental revolutions of the 18th and 19th centuries."
@@@
Great! ... I always assumed the explosion of radical thought (Levellers and Diggers) and the unprecedented assumption of government by the people of England in 1649, plus the writings of John Locke and Thomas Hobbes, must have affected the French just as much if not more than they did the residents of the American plantations leading up to 1776.
Now to find out about those under-reported Continental networks ...
San Diego Sarah • Link
"What would England have done without the colonies? Makes it so easy to get rid of some very irritating people..."
I believe Henry Neville MP went into exile in Italy ad remained abroad until 1668, during which he visited the Grand Duke of Turin.
Henry will turn up again in our annotations in 1669 when he hosts Cosmo, the future Grand Duke or Turin, during Cosmo's visit to England. https://thehistorywoman.com/henry…
https://archive.org/stream/travel…
Which doesn't negate Dirk's comment on the usefulness of colonies for exiling inconvenient people. But just not this person.