Robert Gertz: "For a man whose pastimes include maid fondling on a large scale as well as sexual stalking of neighbors and forced sex for employee promotions, it's interesting to see Sam throwing maid/whore accusations about."
The myth of male superiority and the double standard go hand in hand.
"Mrs. Lowther, who is grown, either through pride or want of manners, a fool, having not a word to say almost all dinner; and, as a further mark of a beggarly, proud fool, hath a bracelet of diamonds and rubies about her wrist, and a sixpenny necklace about her neck, and not one good rag of clothes upon her back;"
"Up, and my wife and I fell out about the pair of cuffs, which she hath a mind to have to go to see the ladies dancing to-morrow at Betty Turner’s school; and do vex me so that I am resolved to deny them her. However, by-and-by a way was found that she had them, and I well satisfied, being unwilling to let our difference grow higher upon so small an occasion and frowardness of mine."
I suspect Sam doesn't have anywhere near the control over Elizabeth he thinks he has or should have.
He makes a lot of noise but wields no power. It's all sturm und drang, possibly for his ego and the ears of the help.
Pepys: ...and he tells me that wise men do prepare to remove abroad what they have, for that we must be ruined, our case being past relief, the kingdom so much in debt...
"I have seen websites with this very assessment of the current world situation. Maybe this time it will really happen that way."
Now, 20 years after Larry Bunce's comment and 563 years after Pepys' we've got similar assessments of the world--and to make things even worse, in 2020 we are in the midst of a worldwide plague.
“Charles owned only four children by Lady Castlemaine-Anne, Countess of Sussex, and the Dukes of Southampton, Grafton, and Northumberland. The last of these was born in 1665. The paternity of all her other children was certainly doubtful. See pp. 50,52.”
How in the world could they establish paternity in those days before they even had so much as blood typing? Was it all decided by opinion? Why was the paternity of all of Lady Castlemaine’s children “doubtful”? Doubtful to whom. Was that based solely on the opinion or doubts of the King? How bloody convenient!
There was a boy in my high school graduating class (in New Jersey) whose name was Unthank. I thought it was an unusual name at the time but I never looked into its origins. it's interesting to know that it's prevalent in the North of England. I have never come across the name other than that one boy, and, of course, in Pepys' diary.
“ I am vexed to hear that Nan Wright, now Mrs. Markham, Sir W. Pen’s mayde and whore, is come to sit in our pew at church, and did so while my Lady Batten was there. I confess I am very much vexed at it and ashamed.”
Why are women called whores but men are not when they are doing the same thing? Sam is “vexed” about someone he sees as a whore sitting in his pew but he has no problem with a whore of a different color sitting there.
It has long been theorized by linguists that Appalachian English is a remnant of Elizabethan English and that Shakespeare would feel right at home in the Appalachian hills. For an explanation and examples go here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App…
“Our gold”. This makes me wonder what would have happened to the gold and money Pepys had accumulated if Elizabeth had outlived him. In those days nobody thought of “his” money automatically going to the wife when he died. I doubt she even knew how much he had. He could will his fortune and even household goods to other people. Even if he left most of it to her, would she know have known how to handle it? Would he have likely designated a male relative or friend or colleague to handle it for her? Whom might he have chosen? I don’t remember him mentioning writing a will in his diary.
Robert Gertz: "So to the office, we all sat all the morning, and then home to dinner, where our dinner a ham of French bacon, boiled with pigeons, an excellent dish."
Caught fresh outside, no doubt...
Oh, well, with disaster a stone's throw away, might as well enjoy a good boiled pigeon.
——- It wasn't unusual to eat pigeons in Pepys’ time and up to the present day, though now they’re called squabs. Remember “Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie”? That was apparently good eats.
“If we are to credit the following paragraph, extracted from the “Morning Post” of May 2nd, 1791, the virtues of May dew were then still held in some estimation; for it records that “on the day preceding, according to annual and superstitious custom, a number of persons went into the fields, and bathed their faces with the dew on the grass, under the idea that it would render them beautiful” (Hone’s “Every Day Book,” vol. ii., p. 611). Aubrey speaks of May dew as “a great dissolvent” (“Miscellanies,” p. 183).—B.”
Nothing has changed in 363 years! The fountain of youth just costs more. Results are about the same.
Sam—and most men of his time and class—knew he could keep his “indiscretions” secret. He knew his male friends would never say anything against them and the women he was assaulting (by today’s standards) would never reveal anything because they wouldn’t be believed. If any did speak up they would be roundly condemned by Pepys, his cohorts and the larger society. Their reputations would be ruined, they would be shunned by society, and their husbands or fathers excoriated for not keeping control over them by any means possible. Similar conditions for women continued well into the 20th century. “Me too” didn’t come around until the 21st century. Two substantial feminist movements, though they both managed to advanced women’s rights, didn’t have much influence on men and their infidelities or outright assaults by today’s standards.
Considering how servants were treated in 1667 it’s no wonder they get drunk. Sam claims affection for them but it doesn’t stop him from batting them around on a regular basis when he’s displeased, and his wife often does the same with his encouragement.
Cape Henry“ As for "undecent," TF, not sure it's a typo, but I like it.You are correct, I think, about the migration of the prefix, though it is a bit selective: some things remain unexplained.”
Given the state of spelling in the 17th Century, I imagine that almost anything was acceptable and most words were spelled phonetically. Even Shakespeare was a bad speller, often spelling his own name in different ways.
✹New since your last visit Terry Foreman on 12 Apr 2010 • Link
"my Lady Jemimah’s chamber, who is let blood to-day"
L&M note she was pregnant.
—————-
Sounds more like blood letting than pregnancy. Or possibly menstruation. I cant imagine how it would relate to pregnancy unless she was having a miscarriage. Maybe they did blood letting on pregnant aristocratic women back then. I wouldn’t be surprised, seeing that blood letting was so popular back then.
Pepys speaks of mourning for his mother. Did he even mention in the diary when she died? If he did I missed it. Seems strange for a man who wrote down every event of his life and many inconsequential details—but the death of his mother doesn’t get so much as a mention.
Comments
Second Reading
About Sunday 15 September 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
Robert Gertz: "For a man whose pastimes include maid fondling on a large scale as well as sexual stalking of neighbors and forced sex for employee promotions, it's interesting to see Sam throwing maid/whore accusations about."
The myth of male superiority and the double standard go hand in hand.
About Wednesday 11 September 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
"Mrs. Lowther, who is grown, either through pride or want of manners, a fool, having not a word to say almost all dinner; and, as a further mark of a beggarly, proud fool, hath a bracelet of diamonds and rubies about her wrist, and a sixpenny necklace about her neck, and not one good rag of clothes upon her back;"
MEOW!
About Wednesday 21 August 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
"Up, and my wife and I fell out about the pair of cuffs, which she hath a mind to have to go to see the ladies dancing to-morrow at Betty Turner’s school; and do vex me so that I am resolved to deny them her. However, by-and-by a way was found that she had them, and I well satisfied, being unwilling to let our difference grow higher upon so small an occasion and frowardness of mine."
I suspect Sam doesn't have anywhere near the control over Elizabeth he thinks he has or should have.
He makes a lot of noise but wields no power. It's all sturm und drang, possibly for his ego and the ears of the help.
About Thursday 8 August 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
Correction: It's only 10 years since Larry Bunce's comment.
About Thursday 8 August 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
Larry Bunce on 9 August 2010
Pepys: ...and he tells me that wise men do prepare to remove abroad what they have, for that we must be ruined, our case being past relief, the kingdom so much in debt...
"I have seen websites with this very assessment of the current world situation. Maybe this time it will really happen that way."
Now, 20 years after Larry Bunce's comment and 563 years after Pepys' we've got similar assessments of the world--and to make things even worse, in 2020 we are in the midst of a worldwide plague.
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
About Saturday 27 July 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
“Charles owned only four children by Lady Castlemaine-Anne, Countess of Sussex, and the Dukes of Southampton, Grafton, and Northumberland. The last of these was born in 1665. The paternity of all her other children was certainly doubtful. See pp. 50,52.”
How in the world could they establish paternity in those days before they even had so much as blood typing? Was it all decided by opinion? Why was the paternity of all of Lady Castlemaine’s children “doubtful”? Doubtful to whom. Was that based solely on the opinion or doubts of the King? How bloody convenient!
About John Unthank
Louise Hudson • Link
There was a boy in my high school graduating class (in New Jersey) whose name was Unthank. I thought it was an unusual name at the time but I never looked into its origins. it's interesting to know that it's prevalent in the North of England. I have never come across the name other than that one boy, and, of course, in Pepys' diary.
About Samuel Pepys and the virus
Louise Hudson • Link
Is the spike in traffic a good or bad thing or does it not matter?
About Friday 5 July 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
Thumbs up, Gerald.
About Friday 5 July 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
“ I am vexed to hear that Nan Wright, now Mrs. Markham, Sir W. Pen’s mayde and whore, is come to sit in our pew at church, and did so while my Lady Batten was there. I confess I am very much vexed at it and ashamed.”
Why are women called whores but men are not when they are doing the same thing? Sam is “vexed” about someone he sees as a whore sitting in his pew but he has no problem with a whore of a different color sitting there.
About Friday 21 June 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
It has long been theorized by linguists that Appalachian English is a remnant of Elizabethan English and that Shakespeare would feel right at home in the Appalachian hills. For an explanation and examples go here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App…
For audible examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5…
You can find many scholarly articles on the web by doing a search for Appalachian, Elizabethan language.
About Thursday 20 June 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
“Our gold”. This makes me wonder what would have happened to the gold and money Pepys had accumulated if Elizabeth had outlived him. In those days nobody thought of “his” money automatically going to the wife when he died. I doubt she even knew how much he had. He could will his fortune and even household goods to other people. Even if he left most of it to her, would she know have known how to handle it? Would he have likely designated a male relative or friend or colleague to handle it for her? Whom might he have chosen? I don’t remember him mentioning writing a will in his diary.
About Saturday 8 June 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
Robert Gertz:
"So to the office, we all sat all the morning, and then home to dinner, where our dinner a ham of French bacon, boiled with pigeons, an excellent dish."
Caught fresh outside, no doubt...
Oh, well, with disaster a stone's throw away, might as well enjoy a good boiled pigeon.
——-
It wasn't unusual to eat pigeons in Pepys’ time and up to the present day, though now they’re called squabs. Remember “Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie”? That was apparently good eats.
About Tuesday 28 May 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
“If we are to credit the following paragraph, extracted from the “Morning Post” of May 2nd, 1791, the virtues of May dew were then still held in some estimation; for it records that “on the day preceding, according to annual and superstitious custom, a number of persons went into the fields, and bathed their faces with the dew on the grass, under the idea that it would render them beautiful” (Hone’s “Every Day Book,” vol. ii., p. 611). Aubrey speaks of May dew as “a great dissolvent” (“Miscellanies,” p. 183).—B.”
Nothing has changed in 363 years! The fountain of youth just costs more. Results are about the same.
About Monday 20 May 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
Sam—and most men of his time and class—knew he could keep his “indiscretions” secret. He knew his male friends would never say anything against them and the women he was assaulting (by today’s standards) would never reveal anything because they wouldn’t be believed. If any did speak up they would be roundly condemned by Pepys, his cohorts and the larger society. Their reputations would be ruined, they would be shunned by society, and their husbands or fathers excoriated for not keeping control over them by any means possible. Similar conditions for women continued well into the 20th century. “Me too” didn’t come around until the 21st century. Two substantial feminist movements, though they both managed to advanced women’s rights, didn’t have much influence on men and their infidelities or outright assaults by today’s standards.
About Saturday 18 May 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
Considering how servants were treated in 1667 it’s no wonder they get drunk. Sam claims affection for them but it doesn’t stop him from batting them around on a regular basis when he’s displeased, and his wife often does the same with his encouragement.
About Saturday 4 May 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
Cape Henry“ As for "undecent," TF, not sure it's a typo, but I like it.You are correct, I think, about the migration of the prefix, though it is a bit selective: some things remain unexplained.”
Given the state of spelling in the 17th Century, I imagine that almost anything was acceptable and most words were spelled phonetically. Even Shakespeare was a bad speller, often spelling his own name in different ways.
About Wednesday 17 April 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
In the states, “on the up and up” means “honest”, “respectable.”
https://www.merriam-webster.com/d…
About Thursday 11 April 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
✹New since your last visit
Terry Foreman on 12 Apr 2010 • Link
"my Lady Jemimah’s chamber, who is let blood to-day"
L&M note she was pregnant.
—————-
Sounds more like blood letting than pregnancy. Or possibly menstruation. I cant imagine how it would relate to pregnancy unless she was having a miscarriage. Maybe they did blood letting on pregnant aristocratic women back then. I wouldn’t be surprised, seeing that blood letting was so popular back then.
About Saturday 6 April 1667
Louise Hudson • Link
Pepys speaks of mourning for his mother. Did he even mention in the diary when she died? If he did I missed it. Seems strange for a man who wrote down every event of his life and many inconsequential details—but the death of his mother doesn’t get so much as a mention.