"The jade, whether I would not give her money or not enough; she would not offer to invite to do anything, but on the contrary saying she had no time, which I was glad of, for I had no mind to meddle with her, but had my end to see what a cunning jade she was, to see her impudent tricks and ways of getting money and raising the reckoning by still calling for things, that it come to 6 or 7 shillings presently."
Sam becomes very much a blue stocking when it's a girl plying her trade, but when Sam himself engages in "impudent tricks and ways of getting money" in his Navy dealings, it suddenly becomes perfectly right and moral. Funny how that works.
"The next thing is this cursed trouble my brother Tom is likely to put us to by his death, forcing us to law with his creditors, among others Dr. Tom Pepys, and that with some shame as trouble;"
Yes, Tom should have known better than to die when he knew it would cause his brother such inconvenience. How irresponsible! What cheek!
I wish Sam had explained how he came to rationalize that he would not be breaking his oath by going to the play.
JonTom Kittredge, though this may not help with the Maine pronunciation of Mt. Dessert, it's easy to know whether it's desert or dessert you want to spell. One s is for sand and two esses are for Strawberry Shortcake. Mount Dessert should be pronounced desSERT, but I can't speak for downeasters who talk funny, anyway. Just to make it more confusing one s desert is also pronounced DeSERT when it's a verb.
"Here meeting his mayd Jane, that has lived with them so long, I talked with her, and sending her of an errand to Dr. Clerk’s, did meet her, and took her into a little alehouse in Brewers Yard, and there did sport with her, without any knowledge of her though, and a very pretty innocent girl she is."
Apparently any young girl was considered fair game to Pepys and his cohorts. I don't suppose there was anyone for a girl to complain to, especially one who was a "mayd." Men in those days must have assumed that they could do as they pleased with any young girl who was away from her family or a chaperone. A good number of them probably wound up pregnant and on the streets and the babies in foundling hospitals (if they were lucky). The sin was the mother's, of course. Oh, well. As long as the men could have their way with any girl they fancied, that's all that mattered.
The monarch is the head of the Church of England and would have been in a position to choose a bible to be the authorized version. The Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church and the English monarch is the head of the Anglican Church. They make the rules.
The stationers' monopoly was the beginning of UK copyright. They were called stationers because they left their stalls (barrows, really) out in the street all night but tethered them - they were stationary. The vowel change came later.
Apparently Liz (and most wives of the time) never had any money of her own and every penny Liz spent belonged to Sam and was controlled by Sam. Wives had no say. She wouldn't even get a household or clothing "allowance." Sam would have had apoplexy at the thought of sharing income and assets as most young couples do today. What a difference few hundred years makes! A wife in London in 1664, by today's standards, was treated like a child, at best, or more amongbthe lower classes, as a slave or servant. She wasn't to own or spend a penny without the "master's" permission. No wonder it's been such a long, hard struggle for women from either side of the Atlantic to get any rights at all
On another subject, there is apparently no such thing as ill-gotten gains in England.
"Take of ye Rootes of Marsh-Mallows foure ounces, of Cumfry, of Liquorish, of each two ounces, of ye Mowers of St. John’s Wort two Handsfull, of ye Leaves of Plantan, of Alehoofe, of each three handfulls, of Selfeheale, of Red Roses, of each one Handfull, of Cynament, of Nutmegg, of each halfe an ounce. . . . " etc.
I sincerly hope the "alternative medicine" types of 2017 don't get hold of this concoction. They'd patent it and sell it over the Internet to cure whatever ails you.
"he do complain of his wife most cruel as the most troublesome woman in the world, and how she will have her will, saying she brought him a portion and God knows what. By which, with many instances more, I perceive they do live a sad life together."
Yes, she brought some money or goods to the marriage and now wants some control over how it's used. "Cruel and troublesome" indeed.
So Sam may be a Cockney, though perhaos one must one be BORN within the sound of Bow Bells? He was born in Salisbuty Court, Fleet Street. Do you know, Jon, if Bow bells be heard there? In any case Pepys would probably not admit to it, Cockneys being working class. He would have thought better of himself.
Gowne. What we'd call in the US a robe. It's called a dressing gown in England, even today. Perhaps in Pepys' time it was not unusual to wear one in the presence of guests and to take it to other houses, rather than restricting it to the privacy of one's home or bedroom, as most do today. I can see why, with cold and damp so prevalent and little heating to speak of. I would have worn one, too.
A daughter and three children? Does that mean daughters were not considered children, the way women were not considered fully human? (How could they be if they weren't men.)
I can only wonder why Sam didn't think of wearing gloves to bed instead of trying to tie his hands. Surely he had a pair of gloves around. Even a pair of socks on his hands should have worked to keep his hands warmer, like mittens.
It appears to me that Sam is saying, "She may be a slattern, but it hardly matters given her beauty." He seems inordinately fond of beauty and it apparently forgives everything. I wish he had given some examples of her slatternliness. Traces of dust on top of the picture frames?
I can't get my head around the experiment on the dog. "the dogg did presently fall asleep, and so lay till we cut him up, and a little dogg also, which they put it down his throate". What is that supposed to mean? What did they put down whose throat? And to what end? I realize this is the 17th Century, but Sam seems particularly immune to cruelty to dogs, which must have been loved pets even then.
"A joiner is an artisan who builds things by joining pieces of wood, particularly lighter and more ornamental work than that done by a carpenter, including furniture and the "fittings" of a house, ship, etc. . . . . A joiner usually produces items such as interior and exterior doors, windows, stairs, tables, bookshelves, cabinets, furniture, etc. In shipbuilding a marine joiner may work with materials other than wood . . .
"The terms joinery and joiner are used in the UK, and the main trade union for American carpenters still calls itself the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J…
A joiner is also a piece of machinery that creates woodworking joints. Of course, in Pepys' time there was no such machinery and all joinery was done by hand,
I am having work done in my house, including the buildiing of closets and the renovation of stairs, so I understand very well what Pepys meant when he wrote, "So at night with my head full of the business of my closet . . . strange it is to think how building do fill my mind and put out all other things out of my thoughts."
“All human history attests That happiness for man, - the hungry sinner! - Since Eve ate apples, much depends on dinner. ~Lord Byron, Don Juan, Canto XIII, stanza 99”
Australian Susan asked about Alms Houses "Anyone know if these exist in Deptford still?"
Perhaps you have discovered them by now, 10 years after asking the question, Susan. If not there are many listed in Debtford on various websites on the Internet. It isn't clear to me if any are still standing.
Comments
Second Reading
About Friday 29 July 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
"The jade, whether I would not give her money or not enough; she would not offer to invite to do anything, but on the contrary saying she had no time, which I was glad of, for I had no mind to meddle with her, but had my end to see what a cunning jade she was, to see her impudent tricks and ways of getting money and raising the reckoning by still calling for things, that it come to 6 or 7 shillings presently."
Sam becomes very much a blue stocking when it's a girl plying her trade, but when Sam himself engages in "impudent tricks and ways of getting money" in his Navy dealings, it suddenly becomes perfectly right and moral. Funny how that works.
About Thursday 28 July 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
"The next thing is this cursed trouble my brother Tom is likely to put us to by his death, forcing us to law with his creditors, among others Dr. Tom Pepys, and that with some shame as trouble;"
Yes, Tom should have known better than to die when he knew it would cause his brother such inconvenience. How irresponsible! What cheek!
I wish Sam had explained how he came to rationalize that he would not be breaking his oath by going to the play.
About Saturday 23 July 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
JonTom Kittredge, though this may not help with the Maine pronunciation of Mt. Dessert, it's easy to know whether it's desert or dessert you want to spell. One s is for sand and two esses are for Strawberry Shortcake. Mount Dessert should be pronounced desSERT, but I can't speak for downeasters who talk funny, anyway. Just to make it more confusing one s desert is also pronounced DeSERT when it's a verb.
About Monday 18 July 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
"Here meeting his mayd Jane, that has lived with them so long, I talked with her, and sending her of an errand to Dr. Clerk’s, did meet her, and took her into a little alehouse in Brewers Yard, and there did sport with her, without any knowledge of her though, and a very pretty innocent girl she is."
Apparently any young girl was considered fair game to Pepys and his cohorts. I don't suppose there was anyone for a girl to complain to, especially one who was a "mayd." Men in those days must have assumed that they could do as they pleased with any young girl who was away from her family or a chaperone. A good number of them probably wound up pregnant and on the streets and the babies in foundling hospitals (if they were lucky). The sin was the mother's, of course. Oh, well. As long as the men could have their way with any girl they fancied, that's all that mattered.
About Saturday 16 July 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
About Tuesday 12 July 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
The monarch is the head of the Church of England and would have been in a position to choose a bible to be the authorized version. The Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church and the English monarch is the head of the Anglican Church. They make the rules.
About Friday 8 July 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
The stationers' monopoly was the beginning of UK copyright. They were called stationers because they left their stalls (barrows, really) out in the street all night but tethered them - they were stationary. The vowel change came later.
About Monday 4 July 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
Apparently Liz (and most wives of the time) never had any money of her own and every penny Liz spent belonged to Sam and was controlled by Sam. Wives had no say. She wouldn't even get a household or clothing "allowance." Sam would have had apoplexy at the thought of sharing income and assets as most young couples do today. What a difference few hundred years makes! A wife in London in 1664, by today's standards, was treated like a child, at best, or more amongbthe lower classes, as a slave or servant. She wasn't to own or spend a penny without the "master's" permission. No wonder it's been such a long, hard struggle for women from either side of the Atlantic to get any rights at all
On another subject, there is apparently no such thing as ill-gotten gains in England.
About Friday 1 July 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
"Take of ye Rootes of Marsh-Mallows foure ounces, of Cumfry, of Liquorish, of each two ounces, of ye Mowers of St. John’s Wort two Handsfull, of ye Leaves of Plantan, of Alehoofe, of each three handfulls, of Selfeheale, of Red Roses, of each one Handfull, of Cynament, of Nutmegg, of each halfe an ounce. . . . " etc.
I sincerly hope the "alternative medicine" types of 2017 don't get hold of this concoction. They'd patent it and sell it over the Internet to cure whatever ails you.
About Tuesday 28 June 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
"he do complain of his wife most cruel as the most troublesome woman in the world, and how she will have her will, saying she brought him a portion and God knows what. By which, with many instances more, I perceive they do live a sad life together."
Yes, she brought some money or goods to the marriage and now wants some control over how it's used. "Cruel and troublesome" indeed.
About Monday 30 May 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
So Sam may be a Cockney, though perhaos one must one be BORN within the sound of Bow Bells? He was born in Salisbuty Court, Fleet Street. Do you know, Jon, if Bow bells be heard there? In any case Pepys would probably not admit to it, Cockneys being working class. He would have thought better of himself.
About Monday 30 May 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
I wonder if he could hear the Bow Bells.
About Saturday 28 May 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
Gowne. What we'd call in the US a robe. It's called a dressing gown in England, even today. Perhaps in Pepys' time it was not unusual to wear one in the presence of guests and to take it to other houses, rather than restricting it to the privacy of one's home or bedroom, as most do today. I can see why, with cold and damp so prevalent and little heating to speak of. I would have worn one, too.
About Tuesday 24 May 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
A daughter and three children? Does that mean daughters were not considered children, the way women were not considered fully human? (How could they be if they weren't men.)
About Tuesday 17 May 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
I can only wonder why Sam didn't think of wearing gloves to bed instead of trying to tie his hands. Surely he had a pair of gloves around. Even a pair of socks on his hands should have worked to keep his hands warmer, like mittens.
About Monday 16 May 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
It appears to me that Sam is saying, "She may be a slattern, but it hardly matters given her beauty." He seems inordinately fond of beauty and it apparently forgives everything. I wish he had given some examples of her slatternliness. Traces of dust on top of the picture frames?
I can't get my head around the experiment on the dog. "the dogg did presently fall asleep, and so lay till we cut him up, and a little dogg also, which they put it down his throate". What is that supposed to mean? What did they put down whose throat? And to what end? I realize this is the 17th Century, but Sam seems particularly immune to cruelty to dogs, which must have been loved pets even then.
About Monday 9 May 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
". . . after dinner in Sir W. Pen’s coach he set my wife and I down at the New Exchange . . . "
Hmm, it looks as if pronoun errors are not new.
About Friday 6 May 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
"A joiner is an artisan who builds things by joining pieces of wood, particularly lighter and more ornamental work than that done by a carpenter, including furniture and the "fittings" of a house, ship, etc. . . . . A joiner usually produces items such as interior and exterior doors, windows, stairs, tables, bookshelves, cabinets, furniture, etc. In shipbuilding a marine joiner may work with materials other than wood . . .
"The terms joinery and joiner are used in the UK, and the main trade union for American carpenters still calls itself the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J…
A joiner is also a piece of machinery that creates woodworking joints. Of course, in Pepys' time there was no such machinery and all joinery was done by hand,
I am having work done in my house, including the buildiing of closets and the renovation of stairs, so I understand very well what Pepys meant when he wrote, "So at night with my head full of the business of my closet . . . strange it is to think how building do fill my mind and put out all other things out of my thoughts."
About Thursday 28 April 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
“All human history attests
That happiness for man, - the hungry sinner! -
Since Eve ate apples, much depends on dinner.
~Lord Byron, Don Juan, Canto XIII, stanza 99”
And bed, then as now.
About Friday 8 April 1664
Louise Hudson • Link
Australian Susan asked about Alms Houses
"Anyone know if these exist in Deptford still?"
Perhaps you have discovered them by now, 10 years after asking the question, Susan. If not there are many listed in Debtford on various websites on the Internet. It isn't clear to me if any are still standing.
https://trinityhousehistory.wordp…
But there are many almshouses across England still standing and in use as houses.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L….
I've seen the ones in Appleby (Cumbria) and in Watford (Hertfordshire).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L…