Wednesday 15 February 1659/60

Called up in the morning by Captain Holland and Captain Cuttance, and with them to Harper’s, thence to my office, thence with Mr. Hill of Worcestershire to Will’s, where I gave him a letter to Nan Pepys, and some merry pamphlets against the Rump to carry to her into the country. So to Mr. Crew’s, where the dining room being full, Mr. Walgrave and I dined below in the buttery by ourselves upon a good dish of buttered salmon. Thence to Hering the merchant about my Lord’s Worcester money and back to Paul’s Churchyard, where I staid reading in Fuller’s History of the Church of England an hour or two, and so to my father’s, where Mr. Hill came to me and I gave him direction what to do at Worcester about the money. Thence to my Lady Wright’s and gave her a letter from my Lord privily. So to Mrs. Jem and sat with her, who dined at Mr. Crew’s to-day, and told me that there was at her coming away at least forty gentlemen (I suppose members that were secluded, for Mr. Walgrave told me that there were about thirty met there the last night) came dropping in one after another thither. Thence home and wrote into the country against to-morrow by the carrier and so to bed. At my father’s I heard how my cousin Kate Joyce had a fall yesterday from her horse and had some hurt thereby. No news to-day, but all quiet to see what the Parliament will do about the issuing of the writs to-morrow for filling up of the House, according to Monk’s desire.

37 Annotations

Glyn   Link to this

Final chance to get a book

Go to
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1660/02/03/
and look at the 18th annotation

Keith Wright   Link to this

Notwithstanding the buttered salmon, a buttery began as a place to store liquor: see entry for 25 January, and language hat's annotation.

Ann Garbett   Link to this

Please put my name in the drawing; the book sounds wonderful--and I'll pass it on. AG

David Quidnunc   Link to this

Waldegrave & dining at the Crews'

When Pepys' visits with the Crews, it seems he dines with the family, although technically he works for John and Jemima's son-in-law. I suppose he's much higher ranking than a servant.

Henry Moore, a lawyer and Montagu's "man of business," sometimes goes with Pepys to eat at the Crews, and he must eat with the family too.

I always pictured servants (except, maybe for nannies) as NOT dining with the people they work for, or their families (all I know is what I see on television or in movies depicting Victorian times or the early 20th century). It's hard to believe the Crews dined with all the help. Does anyone know how this separate dining worked in Pepys's time?

The "Mr. Walgrave" mentioned today is one of the Crews' sons. Waldegrave is the maiden name of Jemima Crew the elder.

language hat   Link to this

Thanks, Keith! Here's the direct link:
http://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1660/01/25/#c815

By the way (looking at the quotes cited there), for those who don't know, the past tense of "eat" was pronounced "et" (and usually spelled "eat") in Pepys' day; this still survives in dialects.

Mary   Link to this

eat/ate

The standard English pronunciation of the past tense of eat is 'et' and the pronuciation that rhymes with 'eight' is a non-standard variation. I believe that this position is reversed in the case of American English.

Nix   Link to this

There are "servants" and "servants" --

House servants (menials) would not dine with the family, but it looks to me like those who were more in the order of their business people, like Pepys, were part of the family establishment and would take part in household meals. Not, of course, formal social occasions. Keep in mind that the household of a lord was more like a modern day business than like a nuclear family.

Inanna   Link to this

Please enter me in the book drawing too.
I tried to email you, Glyn, but my mail denied me to your server. This gives me a chance, tho, to say how much I am enjoying this site.

Derek   Link to this

Can anyone shed any light on the Worcester business? Is this anything more than some casual commercial transaction of Montague's? I take it Nan is another member of the extended Pepys family who just happens to live thereabouts and that Sam is able to take advantage of Mr Hill as a private messenger as well as business agent.

David Quidnunc   Link to this

The Cast
Source: Index volume to Latham & Matthews edition of the diary.

HOLLAND, Capt. Philip -- naval officer under Montagu.

CUTTANCE, Capt. Henry -- another naval officer.

HILL of Worcestershire -- Latham's index has no information other than what's here. Pepys does NOT say he's from Worcester itself, which would have been easier to say if it were so (and if Pepys knew).

AUNT NAN -- Aunt Anne (nee Pepys) of Worcester. Apparently she first marries a man named Hall and, after his death, a (Robert?) Fisher. When Hill sees Pepys again at his father's home at Salisbury Court, Hill could easily get at least one more letter with more family news from Pepys's parents.

Pepys doesn't mention Nan much in the diary, but he is (or once was) emotionally close enough to send some "merry" pamphlets and write to her himself. Or did she ask for them through Hill?

HERRING, Michael (Latham's spelling) --loaned money to Montagu. The index refers to a note in Vol. 1, p. 55 in the L&M edition.

FULLER'S HISTORY -- "T. Fuller -- 'The church-history of Britain'" (index volume, p 25).

LADY ANN WRIGHT -- married to Sir Henry Wright of Essex, later elected to parliament. He is described as Montagu's brother-in-law, but nothing is said of Ann's connection -- very likely, she's Jemima's sister and a daughter of John Crew.

She's described in the diary next year as witty and conceited. Today is the second time she gets a letter from Montagu. Did Hill stop at Hinchingbrooke on his way to London and get the letter Pepys is now giving to Lady Wright? Why does she get those letters "privily"?

David Milofsky   Link to this

Although Pepys was related to the Crews, he was obviously a poor relation and while they were on cordial terms he was not seen as a peer in any way. Similarly, Montagu considered him a servant and Pepys continued to eat with the servants during visits for years to come. Indeed, given this situation, Pepys' rise in the world is all the more impressive. On another tack, I wonder if anyone has commented on Pepys' relationships with the poets Milton (also a government clerk), Dryden and Marvell?

David Quidnunc   Link to this

"merry pamphlets"

Did Pepys mean published ballads? My dictionary says "pamphlet" is something bound (nothing fancy -- some pages were stitched together). Ballads, I think, were published as broadsides, but apparently also as collections, so maybe they were bound as pamphlets. They were certainly merry and commented on politics.

Here's one about the 1642 Battle of Worcester, a/k/a Battle of Powick Bridge (published in "Rump Songs" in 1662, but probably circulating at this time):

http://www.acronet.net/~robokopp/english/battlw...

One written in about 1647 has these lines:
"Then let's hope for a peace, for the wars will not cease/
Till the King enjoys his own again."
http://www.acronet.net/~robokopp/english/whatbo...

Finally, here's a quote from one (date unknown) that Hill might've found apt as he traveled:

"Though people now walk in great fear
Along the country everywhere,
Thieves shall then tremble at the law,
And justice shall keep them in awe:
The Frenchies shall flee with their treacherie,
...
When the King comes home in peace again."
http://www.acronet.net/~robokopp/english/oxford...

I hope on this site we'll stay away
From chatting on politics of our day
Except to have examples shown
Of the things since Pepys we haven't outgrown.
But maybe we can make a rare aside
For sly allusions, even if snide
And if I can say it without too much objection
I'll just point out the above French connection.

David Quidnunc   Link to this

French government connection, not French people, of course.

Pauline   Link to this

Merit + Connections + Education
Sam’s father had well-off and well-connected relatives in a position to help Sam. He garnered their attention as a male Pepys, as obviously clever, and, I would assume, by his personality and eagerness to better his lot. Through these connections Sam attended the Free Grammar School in Huntingdon, St. Paul’s School in London, and went on to Cambridge.

As we meet him early in the Diary, he is young and working as a clerk for Montagu and for Downing. More than a servant, he is like an apprentice under older, more powerful men. In serving them he learns his way into his own career in the affairs of the country. He is an intimate of the Montagu household (their estate Hinchingbrooke is near Huntingdon and the Free Grammar School and Sam spent lots of time there and they are distantly related) and by extension, though to a lesser extent, the Crew household in London. He appears to be equally comfortable eating in the kitchen with the servants or the dining room with the family and guests. I think he probably had a good sense of when, given his age and his status, it was not appropriate to join the guests, based on who was there or what was being discussed. Other times it looks like it is decided based on expediency. If dinner is over upstairs, he eats downstairs. If the dining room is full, he eats in the kitchen.

Might the surprising degree of meritocracy in getting Sam ‘from there to here’ reflect the spirit of the Commonwealth years?

David Quidnunc   Link to this

Milton and Pepys

John Milton, generally acknowledged to be the greatest poet of his time, was renting from a tailor named Russell, in the same St. Brides parish that Pepys grew up in -- when Pepys was a child. A sometime schoolmaster, Milton probably did a little tutoring for his nephew, Johnny, who was living with him in St. Bride's Churchyard. Johnny was eight when Sam was six years old. (Tomalin, p 7)

Milton was the Latin secretary to the Council of State, on which Montagu at one time sat (and deliberated on his salary). The Latin secretery would write or translate letters (in that universal language) to officials of foreign governments. George Downing would have also known Milton.

Some of Pepys's friends were or had been clerks under Milton -- Will Symons, Matthew and Thomas Leigh, a Ewers and two Frost brothers (Tomalin, p 45).

Milton, who had gone blind years before, would have been pointed out, and Pepys would certainly have known of him and probably crossed his path in Whitehall.

In February 1660, when Pepys and many others were alienated from Puritanism, Milton stuck with it (and never renounced it). Within a week or two, Milton will take an unpopular stand by publishing a pamphlet, "The Readie & Easie Way to Establish a Free Commonwealth."

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/%7Erbear/readie.html

Years from now, some close connection of Milton's will meet Pepys (I'm not sure if it's a nephew or secretary of Milton's).

Number of times Milton is mentioned in the diary: Zero.

Pauline   Link to this

I hope on this site we’ll stay open
To every angle on the events they betoken
And the history we learn held in fascination
While the habits and missteps not to laceration
If you see not a rump aroasting
To number the observers ain’t boasting
Tho we come here from points most various
To enjoy it together should be not precarious

Patrick Blake   Link to this

Amen to Pauline's poem. This site is a source of daily joy and enlightenment to this olde phart.

Paul Miller   Link to this

Mary tells us that the past tense of eat is “et” and that ate is a variant except in the states where this is reversed. This is true except in some parts of the deep south where “et” is the common venacular for having eaten, but only if three or more hound dogs live under your porch.

Keith Wright   Link to this

further tangent to Mary & Paul's "et":
It's lapsing in the Mid-South (i.e., the Mississippi River valley border states) as older speakers die off. Satellite dishes are now more common here than hound-dogs.

Hhomeboy   Link to this

Nyet : Hinchinbrooke &Huntingdon.ca...

This may sound trite but I am writing this note in the rural southwestern Quebec township of Hinchinbrooke in the Chateauguay Valley; the traditional county seat, Huntingdon, is about a dozen kilometres from our 1840's stone farm house on Violet Hill in the hamlet of Rockburn.

Our Hinchinbrooke was incorporated in 1799...parts of which were situated within the old Beauharnois seigneury which was purchased by fur trade tycoon Alexander Ellis and inherited by his son, Edward "Bear" Ellis before seigneurial title and privileges were abolished in the 1850's.

What was Montagu's estate "Hinchinbrooke" named after...I'll have to check local historical archives as to why and how our adjacent Hinchinbrooke & Huntingdon came to be so designated.

j.simmons   Link to this

HHomeboy...
Don't think this trite at all, hope you follow up with your search and post your findings. So many names were transposed from the "old" country there must be some connection, and an interesting one "too boot."
When the Baldwins settled in Toronto, in 1792, it was still refered to as York.

Jackie   Link to this

Isn't it interesting, the way in which Pepys' attitude towards Parliament and the possible return of the monarchy seems to be shifting?

It didn't seem to be on his agenda at the start of the year and now he's distributing "merry" pamphlets about it all. He's definitely moving his views with the times!

I'd love to know what was in all of those cyphers that he was translating - his boss was in all of this up to his neck!

j.simmons   Link to this

"Up to his neck" indeed...
Montagu stood to lose his head if he didn't jump ship at the right moment and side with Charles. It explains a great deal about Peypy's value to him, sending all those cyphers with an accurate read on events in London. Montagu had split with his father to side with Cromwell and now had to tip toe back to the other side if the king was to be restored. Timing was everything and our Sam could feel the tides turning, and I think he relished the change.

Hhomeboy   Link to this

Hinchinbrooke and Cromwell...

Oliver, who sat in the long parliament with more than one Montagu, disliked the Montagu's who had purchased the Cromwell manor, Hinchinbrooke.

see: http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:iMzJ2MvENSQ...

Long excerpt from Belloc's "Cromwell":

Belloc now turns to Cromwell's emotional relations and competition with the Montagus. Cromwell apparently maintained a deep hatred of the Montagu's his entire life:

`We must bear all these in mind, for Sir Oliver's nephew who was to be the Protector never forgot that first blow delivered in his youth, the loss of the ancestral home. He put all three brothers into one basket as despoilers of his family.

Of these rich men, one, Sir Sidney Montagu, the Master of the Requests, a lawyer in the traditions of his family, was now master of the roof and acres which Oliver had known and revered all his youth. Oliver himself was still the chief citizen in Huntingdon, ... but its solid basis in the place had gone. Henceforward there was feud between Oliver in his reserved, violent mind, and the Montagu blood. We shall see the earlier and later action of this: the earlier in Oliver's passionate attacks upon the Montagu's influence in the Fen Country, where the Cromwells used to be supreme; the later upon a larger scale in the hounding out of Manchester from the command of the Parliamentary army.

We see Cromwell, then, capable of a strong personal quarrel and a long retention of the animosity it had aroused. He became the permanent enemy of Manchester, because Manchester was a Montagu. And the greater joy he must have had when Manchester's nephew, the son of the very man who had purchased Hinchinbrooke, fell into a youthful hero-worship of himself, Cromwell, as a soldier. That indeed was a fine revenge for the loss of the great house!

... In his bitterness at the unsuccessful result of Newbury and under the impulse of the long-treasured Montagu quarrel he gave what was almost certainly false testimony: for he pretended that Manchester had not attacked at Shaw House until after darkness had set in, and is there at issue with every other contemporary witness. But when he said that Montagu was fighting slackly because he did not at heart wish to destroy the King, he was telling if not the truth, at any rate what he believed to be the truth. That is exactly what Cromwell did believe about Montagu.

Later when he was met by Montagu's vigorous reply and the publication of so many of his sayings which shook his position, then he backed out and said that he could not accuse Manchester of half-heartedness in attacking the King, but only of incompetence. Such a retraction was false; Oliver continued to think Montagu half-hearted, and when he said he did not, he lied for the sake of taking refuge from the storm which Montagu's accusations against him had aroused.' (Belloc)

Let us follow Belloc to the year 1630:

`Meanwhile the strain of seeing the Montagus displaying their increasing wealth under the roof which had covered him in childhood was more than Oliver could bear. He sold some part of his lands... He thus got rid as well as he could of the Huntingdon connection with its Montagu memories.' (Belloc)

And to the Long Parliament of 1640:

`... As for Huntingdon, it was now wholly in the pocket of the Montagus; two of that family came up side by side to that same Parliament, and what a bitterness for Oliver to find them there! As for the Shire, yet another Montagu was to speak for it in the same Assembly, and with him was Oliver's own brother-in-law, Walton.

...

Therefore from the moment Cromwell enters the Long Parliament ..., 1640, you find him a marked sort indeed and ... not consonant to the air of an assembly, ... Indeed, one of the first things we get from him now is a piece of violence in committee. It was provoked by his now ancient and deep-rooted quarrel with the name of Montagu. The family of Montagu had had assigned to them in the person of Manchester, their head, certain lands granted out of the Queen's property in the Fens. They proceeded to enclose, and therefore to get to loggerheads with the small free-holders. Cromwell in the committee appointed (With Hyde in the Chair) to inquire into the affair, launched out against Manchester as though he were engaged in a personal fight. His conduct was shocking to a man of Hyde's legal descent and ... sense of decorum; assemblies could not carry on if shouting and brawling of this kind were allowed.' (Belloc)

Hhomeboy   Link to this

brief description of Huntingdon and Hinchinbrook(e) House...

see:

http://www.huntsfhs.org.uk/Huntingdonshire/Hunt...

"HUNTINGDON, a borough and market town, having separate jurisdiction, locally in the hundred of Hurstingstone, county of HUNTINGDON, 59 miles (N. by W.) from London, containing 2806 inhabitants. This place, called by the Saxons Huntantun, and in the Norman survey Hunters dune, appears to have derived its name from its situation in a tract of country which was anciently an extensive forest abounding with deer, and well suited for the purposes of the chase. A castle was built here by Edward the Elder, in 917, and afterwards enlarged by David, Earl of Huntingdon, and King of Scotland, to whom King Stephen gave the borough, but having become a retreat for the disaffected in the reign of Henry II., it was, by that monarch's order, levelled with the ground. This fortress, of which there are no remains, is generally supposed, from the form of its out-works, which may still be traced, to have been the site of Duroliponte, a station of the Romans. A mint was established here at a very early period, and coins of Edwy and of his successors until the time of William Rufus, have been struck and issued from this place. Huntingdon has been honoured with many royal visits; James I., on his arrival from Scotland, with all his court, was sumptuously entertained by Sir Oliver Cromwell, uncle of the Protector, in his princely mansion of Hinchinbrooke, a spacious quadrangular building in the Elizabethan style, in which also Charles I. frequently partook of the liberal hospitality of its possessor. Prior to the commencement of the parliamentary war, that monarch kept his court at Huntingdon, where he carried on his negotiations with the parliament then sitting in London, and during the subsequent contests it was frequently the headquarters of his army, Not long after the breaking out of the war, however, it appears to have fallen into the hands of the parliament; for it is stated to have been plundered, in August 1645, by the royalists, commanded by the king in person. In 1646, the king, on his route from Holmby to Hampton Court, in the care of Cornet Joyce and the parliamentary commissioners, was lodged at Hinchinbrook House, then belonging to Colonel Montague, an officer in the army of the parliament, and afterwards, on his joining Charles II. at the Restoration, created Earl of Sandwich, from whose lady the captive monarch received every tribute of sympathising loyalty, and by whose courage he was protected from the insults of a factious mob. In 1745, the inhabitants, assisted by the surrounding gentry, came forward to support the reigning dynasty against the claims of the Pretender, and raised a large sum of money by subscription for that purpose...."

Hhomeboy   Link to this

Pepys, politics and the Montagus at Hinchinbrooke (1627-1962)...

Sir Sydney Montague bought the house from Sir. Oliver Cromwell on 20th June 1627, Sir Sydney died in 1644 and owner ship passes to his son Edward Montague, a parliamentarian, who wife acts as host to Charles the 1st, now a prisoner on his way to Newmarket in her husband’s absence during the first civil war.

Edward Montague would not take an active roll in the Kings trial, and along with General Monk, later Duke of Albermarle, helped to bring about the restoration of the monarchy, and is rewarded by Charles 2nd by being made Baron Montague of St Neots, Viscount Hinchingbrooke and Earl of Sandwich. The Earl of sandwich (Edward Montague) was second cousin and Patron to Samuel Pepys the diarist, who worked as a secretary for a time at Hinchingbrooke House. Both the house and estate figure largely in his diaries.

Once again the buildings were subject to elaborate alteration and additions. Only the best craftsmen and material would do with Samuel Pepys being instructed to obtain the services of Mr. Kennard, master joiner of Whitehall. Samuel Pepys notes in his diary the time and money being spent on the improvements to Hinchingbrooke House.

Sir Sydney Montague was married to Paulina, daughter of John Pepys of Cottenham, great Aunt to Samuel Pepys. Their eldest son had drowned in the moat at Barnwell, which partly explains their move to Hinchingbrooke House. Sir Sydney’s brother Edward was the first Lord Montague of Boughton Northamptonshire, and his other brother Henry was first Earl of Manchester with his seat at Kimbolton Castle. The Montague’s were an influential and powerful family.

So from 1627 until 1962 Hinchingbrooke House was a family home, although the family made structural changes through the centuries it would not return to being the centre of entertainment at the level which ruined its last Cromwell owner.

The final irony is that is was once again to be politics which drastically changed the future of this wonderful house. In order to stand for election to the House of Commons during the early 1960s you had to relinquish any claim to a family title, which would also make you eligible to sit in the House of Lords. In order to pursue a political career Victor Montague relinquished any claim to the family titles, and sold Hinchingbrooke House to the County Council in 1962.

Hhomeboy   Link to this

Hh: thumbnail history and photos:

dates:

http://www.hinchbk.cambs.sch.uk/historical/tour...

photos circa 1900:

http://www.huntingdon-town.info/town/info/hinch...

Phil   Link to this

Hinchingbroke.

On the right are links to the Background Info pages. Click on 'Places' then click on 'Hinchingbroke' and you'll get to http://www.pepysdiary.com/encyclopedia/104/

Information about Hinchingbroke posted there is less likely to disappear to readers of the diary over the next nine years...!

Keith Wright   Link to this

Within the past 30 years, a university press (American?) issued an edition of selected pamphlet-texts from Pepys's huge collection; at one time was a medium-sized univ. paperback, c. 200 pp. Used book site searches have proven fruitless; but if someone can come up with it (check your shelves! I bought it remaindered, & sold it again) perhaps it can be added to the Further Readings.

Pauline   Link to this

Keith, quite a variety of books are available at www.abebooks.com
I just took a quick look (searched author: Pepys) and was intigued with "Pepysian Garland," balland pamphlets, and one on recipes and remedies taken from the Diary. Not sure if the book you mention is among the many.

Having found a title, we should search www.amazon.com first (they carry used books too) as they support Project Gutenberg when we buy from them.

Anyone know how this works? Getting our Pepys purchases at Amazon marked for Gutenberg?

JennyD   Link to this

The salmon Pepys reported eating was probably caught in the Thames. The salmon population of the river is mentioned in the Magna Carta (1215) and there was a thriving fishery until pollution caused by the industrial revolution and the growth of the city made the river water unhealthy. The last record was in 1833, and although there have been attempts to reintroduce salmon to the river since it has been cleaned up, they aren't believed to be particularly successful. See: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/millions-wasted-...

Sasha Clarkson   Link to this

Re Hilaire Belloc on Cromwell. I wouldn't trust Belloc's opinion on anything, unless backed up by a more objective source. Britannica Online says "Born and brought up a Roman Catholic, he showed in almost everything he wrote an ardent profession of his faith. This coloured with occasional inaccuracy and overemphasis most of his historical writing." I rather suspect that's an understatement.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/59913...

His biographies are described as "contentious" and, to me, his attitude to society, religion, and especially heretics, would make him old fashioned even in Pepys' time.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilaire_Belloc

The best historical biographies of the seventeenth century which I have read are by Antonia Fraser. She too is a Catholic, but much more objective.

Robin Peters   Link to this

Thanks for the restart of the diary, My start to the day is established again, hopefully for the next nine years.

william wright   Link to this

Till a pity that lots of the links are broken in the annotations. Thankfully not all.

Sue Nicholson   Link to this

Phil
Just wanted to say thank-you for all your hard work in setting up the annotation facility again. I look forward to reading interesting and amusing posts from the Pepys community.
You are a brave man to take on this huge commitment and responsibility for a second time!

Lightarch   Link to this

Great to see the diary back again. Thanks and Congratulations

Rob   Link to this

When will we see the return of the incredible Robert Gertz as reader of this blog and poster if some really hilarious stuff,,,,,

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