Friday 2 December 1664

Annotations

• N Terry Foreman on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 12:10am

  “we all to Sir J. Minnes, and I did give them a barrel of oysters I had given to me”

  In the USA we call this “re-gifting,” a practice I had thought was recent, until now.

• N cgs on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 12:19am

  atheisticall see? : http://www.pepysdiary.com/p/368.php

• N cgs on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 12:33am

  Most of the OED refs to The word Atheist, be from 1550’s thru 1690’s then skipped to 1800’s

• N A. De Araujo on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 12:52am

  “atheisticall dicourse”
  Many of the “Founding Fathers” in the USA in the 18th Century, were Theists,Masons mostly “In God we trust”
  

• N Paul Chapin on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 02:22am

  “from the King’s own mouth”
  Contrary to the link, I think the King referred to here must be Charles I. Cocke, born in 1617, was reputed to have been a confidant of Charles I (“being then entrusted himself much”), and was certainly old enough for the role. We have had no indication that Cocke has any comparable access to Charles II, and the rest of the sentence clearly refers to Charles I, whose “credulity … did take away his life.”

• N Paul Chapin on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 02:28am

  “and nothing else”
  Here to be understood as the subject of “did take away his life,” coordinate with “credulity,” and not the object (i.e. not coordinate with “his life”). In other words, it was Charles’s credulity, and nothing else, that took away his life, says Sam.

• N Pauline on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 02:34am

  “the late troubles”
  Paul, I think you have nailed this well. Bravo!

• N Terry Foreman on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 04:10am

  “In God we trust”

  The US “Founding Fathers” were actually of another mind. This phrase is a relic of the Cold War, as is “under God” in the “Pledge of Allegiance.”

  “In God We Trust is the current official national motto of the United States and the U.S. state of Florida….In God We Trust became the official U.S. national motto after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956.
  “E Pluribus Unum, approved for use in the Great Seal of the United States in 1782, remains a ubiquitous motto appearing on coins and currency, and has been widely considered the national motto de facto. However, by 1956 it had not been explicitly established by legislation as the official ‘national motto’, and therefore ‘In God We Trust’ was selected.”
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

• N Terry Foreman on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 06:49am

  There’s a war on, and the House of Commons know it

  Impressing Seamen.

  Ordered, That it be referred to Sir John Knight, Sir Robert Atkyns, Colonel Reames, Sir Edw. Walpoole, Mr. John Vaughan, Mr. Pryn, Sir Hen. Peckham, Sir Anth. Irby, Sir John Holland, Sir John Norton, or any Three of them, to peruse the former Laws concerning the Impressing of Seamen; and to bring in a Bill for the more effectual impressing of Seamen, by inflicting Punishments on such as shall refuse to serve, or shall run away after they have received their Press-Money. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=26679#s5

• N AussieRene on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 08:42am

  For all non-Yanks see attached link concerning meaning and origin of e pluribus unum
  http://www.greatseal.com/mottoes/unum.html

• N Pedro on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 10:03am

  There’s a war on,

  Something we do not see from the Diary and the Carte Papers is that there is diplomatic dialogue in the background. Here is some information without spoilers from British Foreign Policy 1660-1672 by Feiling.

  In answer to Robert’s question yesterday the news of the capture of New Amsterdam came at about the same time as Lawson arrived in October with the news of De Ruyter’s voyage to Guinea.

  “There is a stage that follows diplomatic feverishness before it touches the crisis of war, and this had been reached. Only negation came out of the November and December confeerences at the Hague. Neither De Witt nor Clarendon, the head of the English peace party, could yield on the major questions of Guinea and New York, and little reality marked the Dutch attitude on minor matters. Their demand that the commercial reglement should be extended to Europe consisted ill with De Witt’s sugestion that war should be confined to the Colonies, as both of the proposals with the orders sent to De Ruyter to attack the King’s ships if they impeded him, the Dutch refusing to accept that Holmes had acted without authority from the Crown…”

  “By November we may assume that Charles had decided that neither honour nor pocket could stomarch a retreat, and the Dutch must pay his expenses, either through an indemnity in peace, or war forrays on their trade. Some fighting would now, as Clarendon put it be better husbandry, and in such an underhand, wasting war, it was believed that England could last the longest. But the door was not finally closed while hope lasted of any remunerative settlement…”

  “Yet it was certain that England would not make peace, save on terms that no Dutch government could accept, the liquidation of pretentions, an indemnity, even the surrender of Sluys and Flushing as guarantee towns. From November onwards the steps taken on each side indicated that the pressure was reaching its maximum. Each cancelled sailing orders to Guinea, massed fleets in home waters, and laid an embargo on shipping…December brought decision nearer still. Commissioners for the sick and wounded took over the Savoy hotel; the Forest of Dean and Alice Holt heard their best timbers crashing; pressgangs were redoubled…”

  
  

• N Tony Eldridge on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 10:19am

  At it till almost two o’clock, then to supper and to bed.

  “Ah Jane, I think I’ll take my supper now”

  (Mutter) “Awright for ‘im - ‘e was still lying in bed this morning when I’d been up for ‘ours and ‘ours”
  

• N Gerry on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 01:08pm

  to fit up an account for Povy.
  Does “fit up”here mean the same as in modern crime movies?

• N Martin on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 02:25pm

  “Lay long in bed”
  No betimes today. I win by bet of yesterday.

  Double or nothing, since he was up til after 2 today.

• N Mary on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 04:06pm

  “commissioners for the sick and wounded took over the Savoy hotel”

  (Pedro’s quote above).

  The old Savoy Palace had long been used as a hospital for wounded members of the military.

  It was not a hotel!

• N Ruben on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 06:10pm

  Digression
  For Latin Lovers: read today in The New York Times about a Latin revival at
  http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/03/opinion/03mount.html?pagewanted=2
  

• N Terry Foreman on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 06:11pm

  “[The Savoy] was not a hotel!”

  hotel
  1644, “public official residence,” from Fr. hôtel, from O.Fr. hostel “a lodging,” from M.L. hospitale “inn” (see hostel). Modern sense of “an inn of the better sort” is first recorded 1765. Hotelier is a 1905 borrowing of Fr. hôtelier “hotelkeeper.”
  http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=hotel

  The history of the Savoy Palace, Hospital and Chapel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoy_Palace

  The Savoy Hotel: “Opened in 1889, it was built by Richard D’Oyly Carte, the owner of the adjacent Savoy Theatre….Its name derives from the Savoy Palace which once occupied the site.”
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoy_Hotel

• N Pedro on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 06:22pm

  “commissioners for the sick and wounded took over the Savoy hotel”

  Mary, thanks for pointing this out. Feiling was writing in 1930 and as you say it is probably Savoy Place…

  For the majority of the 17th century the Savoy Hospital was not put to its intended use, housing wounded soldiers and eventually being transformed into a military barracks and prison.

  http://www.theiet.org/about/libarc/archives/research/guides-savoy.cfm

  Stow in 1722.

  Savoy, in the Strand, L. This Place was once a Royal Palace, belonging to the Dukes of Lancaster; since then it was converted into an Hospital; afterwards King James the Second erected here a Seminary containing four Schools, the Scholars whereof were taught by Mr. Andrew Polton, Mr. Thomas Parker, Mr. Plowden, and Mr. Hall, all of the Society of Jesus. The Church here, and at the North end whereof the Communion Table stands, is called St. Mary le Savoy.

  http://www.londonancestor.com/stow/stow-strx-s.htm

• N Pedro on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 06:24pm

  Let’s all go down the Strand.

  Terry, sorry for any duplication!

• N cgs on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 08:55pm

  ‘ostel be the word before it was corrupted by dropping the ‘s’
  ‘otel was not coined fully to the mid 1700’s
  1. (In French use.)
  a. A large private residence, a town mansion.

  b. A public official residence, hôtel de ville, the mansion house of a maire, a town hall.

  c. hôtel-Dieu, a hospital.

  1644 EVELYN Diary 4 Feb., Above all is the Hôtel Dieu for men and women, near Notre Dame.
  
  1746 in Acc. Fr. Settlem. N. Amer. 24 The Hotel Dieu, or hospital, of Quebec has two great halls.

  d. hôtel garni, a furnished apartment; an hotel or boarding-house supplying breakfast.
  1774

  e hôtel particulier,…1934

  e hôtel particulier,…1934

  
  2. A HOSTEL in a university. Obs. 1748..

  3. A house for the entertainment of strangers and travellers, an inn; esp. one that is, or claims to be, of a superior kind.
  1765 SMOLLETT Trav. xxxix. (1766) II. 235 The expence of living at an hotel is enormous.

  1776 R. KING in Life & Corr. (1894) I. 20 By a Gentlemen who lately came out of Boston I was informed that they have two bake houses constantly employed in baking for their hotels.

  1783 Let. in H. Arnot Hist. Edinburgh App. 512 In 1763 there was no such place as an Hotel: the word indeed was not known, or only intelligible to French scholars.

  [a. F. hôtel, later form of hostel (see HOSTEL n.1).]
  

• N cgs on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 09:18pm

  “…discourses of Cromwell in council (by Major Huntington) did take away his life and nothing else….”

  http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=25063&strquery=Huntington

• N Robert Gertz on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 10:14pm

  Oh, so that’s the hotel that Carte is selling a share in to Sir Arthur Sullivan in “Topsy-Turvy”. Thanks, Terry.

  Sorry, back to you, Sam.

• N Terry Foreman on Mon 3 Dec 2007, 10:30pm

  Robert G, now that you mention it, I wonder whether SP would have appreciated the “Savoy Opera”? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoy_Opera

  (Pedro, no harm done, ever.)

• N Robert Gertz on Tue 4 Dec 2007, 10:16am

  I think Sam would have been a most enthusiastic G&S fan.

• N Michael Robinson on Tue 4 Dec 2007, 02:32pm

  “I am the very model of a modern Naval bureaucrat, …”

• N Pedro on Sat 15 Dec 2007, 03:53pm

  John Evelyn on the 2nd December…

  We delivered the Privy Council’s letters to the Governors of St. Thomas’s Hospital, in Southwark, that a moiety of the house should be reserved for such sick and wounded as should from time to time be sent from the fleet during the war. This being delivered at their Court, the President and several Aldermen, Governors of that Hospital, invited us to a great feast in Fishmongers’ Hall.