Thursday 14 August 1662

Annotations

• N Terry F. on Sun 14 Aug 2005, 11:04pm. Flag this

  “vast heaps of cinders which they find…being necessary for the making of iron at this day; and without which they cannot work:”

  L&M note: “Slags of Roman and medieval bloomeries, which had been only slightly smelted, could still be used both as ore and flux….”
  

• N Terry F. on Sun 14 Aug 2005, 11:06pm

  “vast heaps of cinders which they find…being necessary for the making of iron at this day; and without which they cannot work:”

  L&M note: “Slags of Roman and medieval bloomeries [charcoal-heated smelters, typically in the form of small pots], which had been only slightly smelted, could still be used both as ore and flux….”
  

• N Australian Susan on Sun 14 Aug 2005, 11:06pm. Flag this

  Vorbid trees - any tree fallen in a storm or other natural disaster.

• N Terry F. on Sun 14 Aug 2005, 11:09pm. Flagged

  “many trees there left at a great fall in Edward the Third

• N Australian Susan on Sun 14 Aug 2005, 11:12pm. Flag this

  There is information here about this practice and also much else about early naval supply history. There were problems right back in the 1570s about who had the right to this timber in the Forest of Dean. Familiar names pop up in this account such as Pett and Winter.
  http://www.danbyrnes.com.au/business/business3.html

• N Bradford on Sun 14 Aug 2005, 11:38pm. Flag this

  “look on my works”, ye mighty, and despair!

  Welcome back, Venison Pasty #17.

• N dirk on Sun 14 Aug 2005, 11:40pm. Flag this

  Fallen trees

  Maybe -just maybe - the storm that caused these trees to fall “en masse” in King Edward III’s time was the same storm (but on the British side of the Channel) as the one described here:

  1360, April 13, Black Monday, English army camped on approach to Chartres is hit by hailstorm killing men and horses, scores die of the cold

  http://www.themcs.org/timeline.htm
  

• N dirk on Sun 14 Aug 2005, 11:42pm. Flagged

  John Evelyn had an important visitor today:

  “… This After-noone her Majestie Queene-Mother (with the Earle of St. Albans, & many greate Ladys & persons) was pleased to honour my poor Villa with her presence, & to accept of a Collation, being exceedingly pleased, & staying

• N dirk on Sun 14 Aug 2005, 11:56pm. Flag this

  venison-pasty etc

  Menu of the month - August

  “A Bill of Fare of Suitable Meat for every Month in the Year”

  1. Calves-head and Bacon.
  2. An Olio, or grandboil’d meat.
  3. A Haunch of Venison roasted.
  4. A Pig roasted.

  Second Course.
  1. Marinate Smelts.
  2. A Pidgeon-Pye.
  3. Roast Chickens.
  4. A Tart.
  5. Some Creams and Fruits.

  From:
  “The Gentlewoman’s Companion: or, A Guide to the Female Sex”, 1675
  http://chaucer.library.emory.edu/cgi-bin/sgml2html/wwrp.pl?act=text&f=%2Fdata%2Fwomen_writers%2Fdata%2Fwoolley.sgm&offset=266683&len=5661&prior=1&next=1&endpos=271916&elmt=div2&t=Section-%20%20A%20Bill%20of%20Fare%20of%20Suitable%20Meat%20for%20every%20Month%20%20in%20the%20Year.%20
  

• N Terry F. on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 12:09am. Flag this

  Australian Susan, Upnor Castle is also named in the site you cite: “Wages of shipkeepers, clerks, watchmen and the gunners at Upnor Castle, repair and maintenance of stores and wharves would be met under the…system [in place before 1579]. Dry-docking and heavy repairs would be seen to by the navy board.”
  

• N JWB on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 12:15am. Flag this

  SOME WEATHER EVENTS IN THE FOURTEENTH CENTURY II.

  (ANGEVIN PERIOD: 1301-87)

  http://www.sci.u-szeged.hu/eghajlattan/akta99/KissA/KissA.html

• N Terry F. on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 01:16am. Flag this

  This isn’t in the Forest of Deane, but “In 1362, when a violent storm blew through Norwich, it toppled the Cathedral’s second wooden spire, sending it crashing the Presbytery roof of the Cathedral’s east end. The Norman clerestory was totally destroyed and needed rebuilding, which it was, but in the Perpendicular style, by Bishop Percy.” http://www.easterncathedrals.org.uk/norwich.html

• N Terry F. on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 01:34am. Flag this

  “13 January 1362, Great Britain: A great sou’wester gale known as St Maury’s Storm, strikes Britian [sic].” http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/almanac/diaryjan.htm

  Many vorbid trees that year.

• N A. Hamilton on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 02:37am. Flagged

  with the age of many trees there left at a great fall in Edward the Third

• N Cumgranissalis on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 03:05am. Flag this

  so all trees blew down; then how come
  there be 25,929 Oaks 4,2205 Beeches]\
  and a Acre of land be worth 5/-.per annum. Plus coppices for running the tubs of melted iron ore. See the ref F. Deane above at the H of C :
  |_/\__/\_| …… |_\/_\/_|….

• N Terry F. on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 03:56am. Flag this

  Keen analysis, A. Hamilton. Australian Susan quotes that website’s definition of “vorbid”. OED: “Forbid, ppl. a. Obs. = Forbidden, Forbid tree (see quot. 1662)…1662 Pepys Diary 14 Aug. Many trees there left at a great fall in Edward the Third

• N Terry F. on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 06:37am. Flagged

  Sir John Winter has a contract to harvest the Forest of Dean’s trees, surely the “vorbid” old growth, large trees, ergo good for, say, masts.

  L&M & OED tell us what “forbid” means here, but is ‘vorbid’ now used to OBSCURE the earlier meaning?

  Recall Fri. 20 June (NOT referenced at “Winter, Sir John”): “Up by four or five o

• N andy on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 08:58am. Flagged

  many trees there left at a great fall in Edward the Third

• N Robert Gertz on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 10:42am. Flag this

  Great note Terry

  The following modern travel blurb suggests the forest survived Sir John.

  (No, George that doesn’t mean you can go devastate Alaska.)

  “Welcome to the ‘Queen of Forests’ one of England’s few remaining ancient forests covering over 110 square kilometres of woodland.

  The Forest of Dean lies in the western part of Gloucestershire, between the rivers Wye and Severn and on the borders of Wales and Herefordshire. It is one of the most distinctive areas of Britain, having a seductive charm and character that is uniquely its own. Its range of stunning landscapes and spectacular scenery has inspired artists, craftspeople, inventors, poets and playwrights, as well as the many visitors who return to the area year after year…

  With 27,000 acres of ancient woodland, hundreds of kilometres of off-road cycling, walking trails and riding paths, plus one of the country’s most unspoilt rivers, all set within spectacular scenery, the Royal Forest of Dean is the perfect adventure playground, whatever the weather.
  …
  (They mention ‘whatever the weather’ many times in the full blurb)

  The Royal Forest of Dean is a truly inspirational place where creativity flourishes. The magical environment of the Forest has nurtured poets, potters and painters, and has been the inspiration for many writers of international renown such as JK Rowling, JRR Tolkien and Dennis Potter.

  (And they forgot to mention our Sam! Outrageous!)

  …visit our website: www.forestofdean.gov.uk for full listings of accommodation, attractions, activities and events.”

  
  

• N Mary on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 10:53am. Flag this

  Forest of Dean.

  The tourist blurb makes it sound like a mini-paradise. Others find it a thoroughly spooky, creepy area of the country remeniscent of The Blair Witch Project.

• N A. Hamilton on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 01:38pm. Flagged

  Read

• N Glyn on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 02:22pm. Flag this

  Good find, Dirk. That would go well in the section on Recipes at:

  http://www.pepysdiary.com/p/311.php

• N Terry F. on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 04:16pm. Flagged

• N Terry F. on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 04:20pm. Flag this

  (Odd redundancy in my last; but it was a wind to fell trees.)

• N Terry F. on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 04:22pm. Flag this

  (Odd redundancy in my last; but the wind worried me ‘bout my ‘ead.)

• N Robert Gertz on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 05:30pm. Flag this

  And Sir John is a (fellow) Papist to boot…I smell a fiendish plot brewing in Rome.

  Darth Vader march plays as Pope enters, cardinals rising…One steps forward to kneel before His Holiness…

  “Speak. What news of our fiendish plot to ruin the heretic English navy with inferior timber?”

• N language hat on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 10:02pm. Flag this

  Dennis Potter’s magnificent The Singing Detective very well conveys the spookiness of the Forest of Dean.

• N Australian Susan on Mon 15 Aug 2005, 10:03pm. Flag this

  Presumably the miners were wanting timber for pit props?
  Catholics were not as “suspect” in the 1660s as they were to become in the 1670s, when the political and social climate became like McCarthyite America in the ’50s. Catholics in closets/Reds under the beds.

• N A. Hamilton on Wed 17 Aug 2005, 07:39pm. Flag this

  Apropos language hat’s note

  on the Forest of Dean & Dennis Potter’s “The Singing Detective, I have read that three of Potter’s four great-grandfathers were Forest miners.

  http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/dpotter.htm

• N Australian Susan on Wed 17 Aug 2005, 11:14pm. Flag this

  For anothertake on living in the Forest of Dean read Winifred Foley’s “A child in the forest” Information at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0030058570/qid=1124316797/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-2798508-8491156?v=glance&s=books
  She also wrote others on the same topic.