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Tuesday 27 August 1661

This morning to the Wardrobe, and there took leave of my Lord Hinchingbroke and his brother, and saw them go out by coach toward Rye in their way to France, whom God bless. Then I was called up to my Lady’s bedside, where we talked an hour about Mr. Edward Montagu’s disposing of the 5000l. for my Lord’s departure for Portugal, and our fears that he will not do it to my Lord’s honour, and less to his profit, which I am to enquire a little after. Hence to the office, and there sat till noon, and then my wife and I by coach to my cozen, Thos. Pepys, the Executor, to dinner, where some ladies and my father and mother, where very merry, but methinks he makes but poor dinners for such guests, though there was a poor venison pasty. Hence my wife and I to the Theatre, and there saw “The Joviall Crew,” where the King, Duke and Duchess, and Madame Palmer, were; and my wife, to her great content, had a full sight of them all the while. The play full of mirth. Hence to my father’s, and there staid to talk a while and so by foot home by moonshine. In my way and at home, my wife making a sad story to me of her brother Balty’s a condition, and would have me to do something for him, which I shall endeavour to do, but am afeard to meddle therein for fear I shall not be able to wipe my hands of him again, when I once concern myself for him. I went to bed, my wife all the while telling me his case with tears, which troubled me.

Wednesday 28 August 1661Monday 26 August 1661

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  • More “mirth” today: venison pasty #22!

    Anent brother-in-law Balthazar, Pepys is “afeard to meddle therein for fear I shall not be able to wipe my hands of him again, when I once concern myself for him.” In for a penny, Sam, in for a pound. Can’t you just see him, swabbing his hands front and back against his pants like a little boy trying to clean himself off, after getting mired up with Balty, whose problems have problems?

  • Uh oh! Balty’s gotten himself into trouble again, and Elizabeth is hoping Sam will bail him out.

    Didn’t Balty try to get some free lunch from Sam once before?

  • Pepys the private detective

    Being told to quietly check that Edward Montagu is spending the budget so as to get best value, and that any commissions get back to the family. I don’t think they think that E.M. is being criminal, but he doesn’t know as much about nautical matters as Sam now does so is more likely to be cheated or get a poor bargain from the merchants’, ship-suppliers, etc. At least, that’s my reading of it.

  • Where in the wedding vows does it say that when you marry the wife, you get a brother for free?

  • “my wife, to her great content, had a full sight of them all the while”
    Bet Elizabeth would have been an avid reader of Hello! magazine in this day and age!
    Is the Thomas they dine with (venison pasty *again*! wot, no seal flipper pie?)the one who had sneaked off to Brampton?? Are Pepys, father and son keeping in with him carefully??

  • “to enquire a little after”
    5000 pounds is a very large sum. Lady M is worried and turns to Sam to ask discreet questions. I concur with Glyn’s reading of this.
    Interesting that Sam just records this, without patting himself on the back about how fortunate he is to be so treated by his betters etc as has been his wont to do. Seems he has got more self-confidence in his powers and knows his worth.

  • “Is the Thomas they dine with…the one who had sneaked off to Brampton?
    This Thomas (The Executor) is, according to L&M likely a first cousin of Sam’s dad. The two Thomases who have left town without notice are his dad’s older brother and his son—uncle and first cousin to Sam.

  • ‘Where in the wedding vows does it say that when you marry the wife, you get a brother for free? ’ NEVER free, nutin’ is free, if it says so on the label, run, because it is usually the most expensive item on the menu.
    The wife’s brother has been the bone of contention in so many families. So much so, it seems to be one of those genetic defects: ‘tis mostly always the lassies little brother, poor wee darlin’.
    so sorry_: ‘Didicere flere feminae in mendacium.’ Syrus, Maxims.
    otherwise in saxon etc.,
    Woman has learned the use of tears to deceive.
    Les femmes ont appris

  • Disposal and slight of hand, by Edward, Mother seems to know her son.
    xref incorrect maybe/s/bhttp://www.pepysdiary.com/p/113.php

  • Good ole Balty, swaggering soldier of no fortune…

    Interesting marital clue that Beth can get round our boy with tears, though I’m sure they were real, given Balty’s sit in the world. Nice to see her in compassion mode, rather than fuming at maids.

    Best to check the household accounts tonight Sam…Or, on second thought, don’t…Be a good guy and keep those sharp eyes closed this once.

  • errata; wrong neddy: so many eds in the “…Montegues’where we talked an hour about Mr. Edward Montagu

  • “…took leave of my Lord Hinchingbroke and his brother, and saw them go out by coach…in their way to France.”
    Edward and Sidney, at ages 13 and 11, are off to be educated in France.

    Any ideas to what school? Or the advantage over being educated in England at this time?

  • Thomas & Thomas & Thomas
    Thanks, Pauline for sorting out one from t’other!

  • Thos. Pepys the Executor.

    L&M make it clear that this was Thos. Pepys, a Westminster businessman. His title “the Executor” is regularly used by Sam hereafter to distinguish him from the other two Thomases. After 1663 this Thomas moved to Hatcham in Surrey and was also named as ‘Thomas of Hatcham’. It’s not clear which will or wills he was executor of.

    He was first mentioned in the diary on January 5th 1660, when Sam criticized him for serving a venison pasty ‘that was palpable beef’. Presumably the pasty served today was at least venison, even if it was a poor thing.

  • Balty
    It looks as though little brother has pricked up his ears at the thought of inheritances, estates, loadza money etc. and has egged sister on to see if some of this can flow his way??? Please, sister, please ask him, pleasssse!
    As wasps to the honey pot….

  • “Edward and Sidney, at ages 13 and 11, are off to be educated in France.”

    Thanks Pauline for this interesting snippet, which opens up a world of questions about education then. Pepys himself went to the town grammar school, and London surely had good schools the boys could attend. Today’s expensive “public” boarding schools with long histories seem to have started as foundations for poor scholars — were they still acting that way at this date? I had envisaged that being educated by your own tutor was the norm for the rich — at times possibly sharing with cousins or friends. Is that what the Monatgu children are doing? They seem young to be sent to a school abroad in those days of difficult travel, but one can see them being entrusted to friends for a bit of polishing in France.

    But then again, what was the youngest age for joining a regiment or a ship for officer training? The eldest is I think only a year or so off acquiring some of the responsibilities which we see as adult ones.

    I wonder if there is a fear that things may yet turn against the King? That these two might have to make their future on the continent. Or are they merely being prepared for a possible diplomatic/courtier role?

  • People Edward’s age were often taken on as midshipmen in the navy, I think, and thus officers-in-training, so it’s evident that they are thought of as almost ready for some adult responsibility.

  • the two young Mountagus

    Whilst in France, they will be in the charge of Abbe Walter Mountagu, cousin to Sandwich. He is very well connected at the French court, having been appointed spiritual and political adviser to Henrietta-Maria, later occupying the same office for her daughter Henrietta. During the English Civil Wars he remained in France, organising supplies for the Royalist armies.

    He published a play, some books of verse and devotional works. In 1670 he was to assist in the negotiations that produced the Treaty of Dover.

    In 1661 he is about 60 years old and remains a staunch convert to the Roman Catholic church.

  • Regarding Kevin Peter’s question: “Didn

  • “home by moonshine”

    September 8 (Gregorian) = 29 August (Julian/British) 18:00 hrs will be full moon.
    Source:
    http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/phase/phases.1601-1700.html

  • Re: brainwashing see Liza Picard : Education should be for the priviledged, so Charles II concluded, E. Picard P163.
    The other reason would be the one mention’d by Sam about the Paduan educated MD relation, His French be not rite.
    Sandwich wants his sons to speake the continental lanquage correctly, not the Isolationist version that no educated european understands or educated country bumkin.
    [ I Know, first hand,today, me french accent failed, when I tried to read a Parisian letter to a blind Parisian Lady. wot yer say? was my encouragement]
    [ age to be a Mid shipman, Even when I was thinking of sailing the sevens seas I had to have my Certs and pass the entrance exam’s for Dartmouth and Cranwell by 15.5 yrs. naturally I became a foot slogger.]

  • Excellent work, Glyn. I hadn’t realized Balty was mentioned so many times.

  • I’ve belatedly changed the link for “Mr. Edward Montagu” to this Edward: http://www.pepysdiary.com/p/113.php Thanks Vincente.

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