Friday 3 May 1661

Annotations

• N A. De Araujo on Mon 3 May 2004, 11:15pm. Flag this

  “but the exceeding unmannerly and most epicure-like palate”,now what kind of palate is that?

• N cindy on Mon 3 May 2004, 11:52pm. Flag this

  “exceeding unmannerly and most epicure-like palate”
  Sounds like Mr. Creed is a complete food snob who sends everything back at least once. I dated a guy like that once - very embarrassing.

• N Pauline on Tue 4 May 2004, 12:47am. Flag this

  Epicure-like palate
  Try this older use of the word (from OED):
  “One who gives himself up to sensual pleasure, esp. to eating; a glutton, sybarite.”

  Maybe he just really pitches in there and eats it all and with too much gusto and lots of reaching, burbing and slurping. Well, that may be bringing in my idea of unmannerly. Can’t help but think of the “palates” in the famous “Tom Jones” movie scene, but without its joyful engagement of everyone at the table.

• N Josh on Tue 4 May 2004, 01:57am. Flag this

  Why choose? Cindy’s take and Pauline’s can be easily combined in the same person, for maximum offensiveness—-the sort of bloke you never want to go to a restaurant with again… .
  What exactly would Pepys have had had he been made “free of the town”? Is this like receiving “the key to the city,” and just what do you get for it? Respectful attention? Shown round all the official hotspots? Gifts from the Welcome Wagon?

• N dirk on Tue 4 May 2004, 02:11am. Flag this

  For the record: philosophy in a nutshell

  Epicure (Epicurus) was a Greek philosopher (341-271 BC), who saw the seeking of pleasure as the main goal in life. - And this is wat most people refer to when they speak of Epicure, or in this case “Epicure-like palate”. - What these people forget is that Epicure defined “pleasure” in a rather unusual way: it was not to be found in the enjoyment of the various sensual pleasures to the largest possible extent, but rather in the abscence of any pain or terror. In order to obtain happiness he actually preached a simple life style: if you don’t get used to an exuberant life, you will require less in order to feel happy.
  Much more detail on:
  http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/e/epicur.htm

  So, once more a huge historical misunderstanding…
  

• N dirk on Tue 4 May 2004, 02:17am. Flag this

  “free of the town”

  In earlier times this would have meant exemption of some taxes, special judicial treatment, the right to join the local guilds and/or the city magistrate etc. In one word (or rather two words) “full citizenship”.

  In this case, late 17th c and all, I take it to mean something like “honorary citizen”.
  

• N dirk on Tue 4 May 2004, 02:29am. Flag this

  Rev Josselin rides to town…

  Josselin’s diary, 3 May 1661:
  “rode into London and saw the triumphal arches. stately. vanity, no rich cost in the front of one besides Heathenism (…) I had sad reflections on the vain flattery, the lord prevent villainous wickedness, but if surely it will not be sine fine. (…)”
  

• N Australian Susan on Tue 4 May 2004, 02:44am. Flag this

  Sam mentions no trouble from the sailors in being paid off, so presumably they were using real money and not paper or tokens. It seems a few days in the close company of Mr Creed is enough! Sam seems to find his company pleasant enough when it is just an hour or so every ten days or so. No mention before of irritation with him over habits.

• N vicente on Tue 4 May 2004, 05:06am. Flag this

  Only a maximum of 80 Tars and officers to be paid of, actual numbers would be far less. Of the roudy sort 30-40, not likely to cause much trouble, it being a Sea going place, some may have been able to be berthed quickly.

• N vicente on Tue 4 May 2004, 05:26am. Flag this

  “What a damned Epicurean rascal” or “Epicurean cooks Sharpen with cloyless sauce his appetite”
  Mr Creed surely reminds SP of the plays he has attended in the past like
  William Shakespeare (1564

• N Mary on Tue 4 May 2004, 07:08am. Flag this

  Freedom of the town.

  Acc. to L&M footnote, this was a courtesy normally afforded naval officials and officers. Penn, Batten and Sandwich were already burgesses at this date and Creed was to be elected later in 1661. Pepys has to wait a bit longer.

• N David Cooper on Tue 4 May 2004, 02:02pm. Flag this

  Sam does enjoy sleeping in the same room as the Queen. Sounds like a very modern idea to promote tourism … or attract people to a stately home. I wonder if he paid extra for the privilege.

• N JWB on Tue 4 May 2004, 03:43pm. Flag this

  Epicurian Creed v Rocky Pepys…
  I wouldn’t be too quick to judge Creed by Sam’s postings. Their rivalry increasingly seems to be one sided. Creed’s a man with some independant means who later takes off North and lives a full life with large family while Sam’s whole life wrapped up in career at hand. This entry starts with Creed boosting Sam and ends with Sam taking jab at him.

• N Peter on Tue 4 May 2004, 04:09pm. Flag this

  Creed and epicureanism. I prefer to read Sam’s comments here as a a rather ironic reflection on his day’s journey….”I travelled all the way from Portmouth to Petersfield with Creed and the only problem we had was with his appetite”. Business trips can often throw together people who wouldn’t normally seek out each other’s company, and can lead to amusing comments like this.

• N David A. Smith on Tue 4 May 2004, 07:13pm. Flag this

  “Here my wife and I lay in the room the Queen lately lay”
  Lie, lay, laid, lain … got laid?
  For many days now I, the prurient voyeur, have been pondering what Sam means by ‘lay with my wife’ — is it sexual, conjugal, bundling, or merely cohabiting?
  Even the omniscient Language Hat provides no etymological help, but … given Sam’s multiplicity of circumstances and uses, referencing not only himself and Elizabeth but others low and high, I think it means “shared a bed with”.
  And *nothing* more, you dirty-minded 21st century peepers!

  
  

• N dirk on Tue 4 May 2004, 08:24pm. Flagged

  “Lie, lay, laid, lain

• N Judy Lorraine on Tue 4 May 2004, 10:27pm. Flag this

  I don’t know about anyone else, but after reading David’s entry, my imagination is soaring!

• N Nix on Tue 4 May 2004, 10:29pm. Flag this

  “made free of the town” —

  Black’s Law Dictionary (rev. 4th ed. 1968) gives the following definition of “FREEDOM OF THE CITY” (citations omitted):

  “In English law, this phrase signifies immunity from county jurisdiction, and the privilege of corporate taxation and self-government held under a charter from the crown. This freedom is enjoyed of right, subject to the provision of the charter, and is often conferred as a honor on princes and other distinguished individuals. The freedom of a city carries the parliamentary franchise. The rights and privileges possessed by the burgesses or freemen of a municipal corporation under the old English law; now of little importance, and conferred chieflly as a mark of honor.

  “The phrase has no place in American law, and as frequently used in addresses of welcome made to organizations visiting an American city, particularly by mayors, has no meaning whatever except as an expression of good will.”

  In Samuel’s time, with the limited franchise and extensive licensing of occupations, this would have meant quite a bit. While these are not privileges he would exercise as a visitor, they were significant enough, symbolically or practically, that the mayor was willing to say no to a guy who plays a crucial role in a department that is critically important to the town.

• N Bradford on Wed 5 May 2004, 01:34am. Flag this

  Thanks, Nix and all, for making us “free” with your research. What a wonderful site, where you can ask a question and willing volunteers spring to your aid!

• N Rich Merne on Wed 5 May 2004, 05:07pm. Flag this

  “Lay with” etc.
  Sam also *lies with* other males and in circumstances which appear to be outside of the context of “lay, *at*, Mr. So and So’s. So; (that’s three so and sos and one cry for help) does Sam have any problem with sharing the actual ‘scratcher’ with another man? I’m of the mind that he doesn’t and that in his time this would have been a frequent and unremarkable matter. I feel that most (being one, I can only speak for my side of the fence), men today would *prefer not* if at all avoidable.

• N Australian Susan on Wed 5 May 2004, 10:39pm. Flag this

  Same sex bed sharing was very common into the 19th century either in public hired beds or in your own home, with relatives or friends. Jane Austen in a letter writes about sharing a bed with her friend Martha Lloyd and staying awake till past 2 talking. What she was drawing to the attention of her sister was their staying awake so long, not the bed sharing.

• N dirk on Sun 3 Sep 2006, 12:27am. Flag this

  Compare: the Freedom of the City of London

  “Cherie Blair permitted to draw sword”
  25 July 2006

  Cherie Blair is to be granted Freedom of the City of London after being nominated by ex-Lord Mayor Sir Gavyn Arthur.

  The granting of the medieval honour is one of the oldest traditional ceremonies in existence with the first freedom being given in around 1237.

  Perks of the honour once included being allowed to herd cattle over London Bridge, permission to carry a drawn sword through the City, being allowed to be drunk without fear of arrest and the right to be hanged with a silken cord.

  The prime minister’s wife will receive a book of Rules for the Conduct of Life which was written by the Lord Mayor in 1737. […]

  © Adfero Ltd
  http://news.viewlondon.co.uk/Cherie_Blair_permitted_to_draw_sword_17383488.html