Wednesday 24 October 1660

Annotations

• N Ian on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 01:13am

  “I found Captain Murford, who did put 3l. into my hands for a friendship I had done him, but I would not take it,”

  Ah, how nice of Sam!

  “but bade him keep it till he has enough to buy my wife a necklace.”

  …or not.

• N Paul Brewster on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 01:31am

  in a pepper box
  L&M substitute “pepper” for “paper”. Would have been tough to distinguish in the shorthand.

• N Paul Brewster on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 01:35am

  who is now brought to bed of a boy
  L&M: “Charles, Duke of Cambridge, b. 22 October; d. 5 May 1661.”

• N Paul Brewster on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 01:45am

  That done, we all parted
  Looks like a scan error. Both Wheatley and L&M have “parted” for “pared”

• N Paul Brewster on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 01:53am

  Mr. Lilly for writing to please his friends and to keep in with the times
  L&M: “Lilly was mercenary by his own admission (see his ‘Hist. of his life and times’ …) and was suspected of having been in the pay of every successive government of the past twenty years. Certainly his popular almanacks adjusted to each change of regime. He claimed, however, that the government pension he had been given in 1649 was only for two years, and for foreign intelligence, not astrological prophecy …. In 1660 his almanackes lay under some disrepute because of his failure to forsee any of the changes in English government in 1659-1660 or the defeat and death of his foreign patron, Charles Gustavus of Sweden.”

• N Paul Brewster on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 01:59am

  Captain Murford, who did put 3l. into my hands for a friendship I had done him
  L&M: “William Murford was a timber merchant and entrepreneur. He was soon to offer Pepys a share in a light-house project and from the beginning of his acquaintance with Pepys had pressed gifts on him …. The diary records no gift of a necklace by him to Mrs Pepys.”

• N Paul Brewster on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 02:05am

  taking Mr. Booker with me, who did tell me a great many fooleries, which may be done by nativities
  L&M: “John Booker, Astrologer”

  Seems like we may have a case of “professional” jealousy here.

• N Paul Brewster on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 02:39am

  Booker, Lilly and Ashmole
  “1646 Elias Ashmole develops a further interest in Astrology by being introduced to William Lilly and John Booker, who were then regarded as being the best living astrologers. Ashmole was to purchase their libraries after their deaths.”

  http://smithpp0.tripod.com/psp/id7.html

• N vincent on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 03:31am

  How meanings have change?”…This afternoon people at work in my house to make a light in my yard into my cellar….” Light = window or opening?

• N vincent on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 03:36am

  Invention? nite lite: “…where I bought of him a drawing-pen; and he did show me the manner of the lamp-glasses, which carry the light a great way, good to read in bed by, and I intend to have one of them…”
  Interesting? candle with glass dome or fixture { probable a four side metal device ?} so he can now read in bed without setting fire to the pillow.

• N vincent on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 03:43am

  That done, we all parted[pared]
  Looks like a scan error. Both Wheatley and L&M have

• N JohnMacSF on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 06:20am

  Could the cellar work be a direct result of Sam’s discovery last week - either a little ventilation, or more light to help one watch their step!

• N Roger Arbor on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 08:11am

  Elias Ashmole… of course what interests anyone with Oxford University connections is that EA’s ‘collection’ formed the basis of the Ashmolean Museum’s exhibits. Worth a visit when next in Oxford!

• N Mary on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 08:13am

  Light = window

  We still (on this side of the Atlantic at least) refer to fanlights and have them in our windows.

• N Mary on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 08:26am

  lamp-glasses

  What is Greatorex demonstrating here? Perhaps something like the bull’s-eye lamp-glass that later became fairly common in lanterns?

• N Ruben on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 11:38am

  to Ian:
  you are using your values to judge SP. That is wrong. It was another world. Try to understand that world but do not judge their ways and mores.
  Same as with quartering of the enemies of the State.
  SP opened for posterity a small window to his world. I think he undestood that, like himself, others would be interested in learning for the sake of knowing.

• N Michal on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 05:26pm

  To Ruben:
  Why are we precluded from “judging his ways and mores” by our lights? Sam is seemingly so like us in many ways, but in other ways his sensibilities seem very different. Like a friend we admire for good qualities, we might yet find fault at times. As to the practice of quartering, ways and mores of the time notwithstanding, I “judge” it to be an abomnibal practice. Do you disagree?

• N Ed LeZotte on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 05:33pm

  Thank you Ruben. You know, there are days when I dred signing on here — I come to Pepys to spend a few minutes or more in the 17th Century — to escape, if you will, the horribleness that is the 21st Century. I come to learn, to witness insofar as is possible another time another place from which we came.

• N Peter on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 06:28pm

  “Lights”…. We have just had some work done to our house, including some windows in the roof, which my wife refers to as “roof lights”

• N Ruben on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 06:49pm

  Sam seems to be a modern person but he could not be. To be a modern person you have to live in a modern society.
  So called good or bad qualities are only a reflection of our mores.
  May be in his days what you call good qualities where considered by society irrelevant or worse “weaknesses” of character, that preclude advancement in society.

  Quartering a dead body is a terrible spectacle…for us.
  I am sorry. I am a modest person. I do not think that I am equal or better than Sam. We are just different, and I like that.
  

• N Mary on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 07:21pm

  17th Century mores

  It looks as if this interchange of views is developing into something that might be better treated in the discussion group. In reading the diary, we surely seek to reach an understanding of Pepys and his times; however, that understanding does not, of itself, necessitate approval of everything that we read. Understanding and approval are two entirely different matters.

• N Carolina on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 07:38pm

  17th Century mores

  Mary, absolutely right !
  We do not have to understand or approve or disapprove. We are lucky to be given a glimpse of life in Sam’s time and I love it, especially the bit where Sam says “we are friends again, as always” about his wife.

• N helena murphy on Sat 25 Oct 2003, 09:42pm

  Thank you Ruben for your insight into Pepys’era.Our squeamishness at the sight of a disembowelled body would have been interpreted as weakness then.The first half of the 17th century was only the threshold of the modern era,society was much more militaristic as well,witness carrying loaded pistols and the wearing of swords by civilians,as well as urban militias, massacres during the thirty years war in Germany and later in Ireland.Those who advanced in society,accoladed with titles ,rank and position had all had blood on their hands,Albermarle,Ormonde,Inchiquin,Prince Rupert is just to mention a few.These men were also the custodians of the heroic values of a previous era,the medieval era.Pepys pathetically tries to imitate these values when he wears a sword in Holland.He imitated but he never questioned the significance of it all as he too was a man of his times like the others.The Enlightenment will arrive in the following century and with it a more “civilized”approach to life such as the ending of trials for witchcraft, for example.

• N Mac on Sun 26 Oct 2003, 12:40am

  Thank you Ian. By expressing an opinion you where able to garner opinions from others.
  Whether the 17th or 21st century the fundamentals of survival is money and
  status to the ambitious.
  This is why many of us know Sam well.

• N Jenny Doughty on Sun 26 Oct 2003, 01:49am

  Regarding swords - see also the annotation under Quakerism in the background notes on religion:

  http://www.pepysdiary.com/p/305.php

• N Rick Ansell on Sun 26 Oct 2003, 01:51am

  Whilst it is true that at this date civilian gentlemen wore swords its worth remembering that when Pepys went to Holland it was with a Warrant as a member of the ships crew. He wasn’t a civilian and would have been expected to fight if the ship had to go into action. There was no ‘pathetic imitation’ when he went to Holland - he needed a sword of some sort.

  Mr Sheplys pistols would have been likely to have been Horse Pistols - a wise investment for someone travelling (presumably with a load of valuable items for his lord in his charge) out of London. They weren’t for show, armed robbery on the highway was a real risk, one that Peyps encountered many years after the end of the diary.

  Montague was an Admiral and Shepley his servant. In order to accompany his master to sea Mr Shepley would have had to have been appointed Admirals Servant and therefore enter the military. He too would have been expected to fight. The pistols would, no doubt, also come in handy in a boarding action.
  

• N Harry on Sun 26 Oct 2003, 10:25am

  I took occasion to be angry with my wife before I rose about her putting up of half a crown of mine in a paper box, which she had forgot where she had lain it. But we were friends again as we are always.

  I find this last comment delightful.

• N oliverm on Mon 27 Oct 2003, 02:41am

  “Lights”

  Here in California we still refer to windows in the roof as “sky-lights”.

• N Grahamt on Mon 27 Oct 2003, 09:17am

  The names skylight and fanlight are still in use in the UK too, but less commonly than before.

• N Peter on Mon 27 Oct 2003, 09:55am

  Other lights that come to mind are:
  “Leaded lights” which is definitely still in use to describe the type of window where small panes of glass are held together with strips of lead.
  “Quarter Light”… which was the name given to those small triangular windows that used to be found on cars up until about 20 years ago.

• N Nix on Mon 27 Oct 2003, 05:16pm

  Students of real estate law learn of the “doctrine of ancient lights” — limiting the ability of a landowner to build in a way that blocks long-established windows on an adjoining property.

• N LeAnn Smith on Tue 28 Oct 2003, 01:00am

  lamp-glasses

  Just a guess, but he may have been shown something similar to a lacemaker’s lamp. It’s a flask of water (clear, snow-water being the best) that is placed in front of the candle, globe-up, and can be adjusted to focus the light some distance away. Lacemaker’s lamps had multiple flasks around the candle so that many lacemakers (as many as 18)could sit and work around one candle - more economical.

  Here’s a website with some details about lacemaker’s lamps:
  http://lace.lacefairy.com/Gallery/LaceLamps.html

  I’ve really enjoyed reading the diary entries and discussions; it’s nice to be able to contribute, as well.