Saturday 4 August 1660

To White Hall, where I found my Lord gone with the King by water to dine at the Tower with Sir J. Robinson, Lieutenant. I found my Lady Jemimah¹ at my Lord’s, with whom I staid and dined, all alone; after dinner to the Privy Seal Office, where I did business. So to a Committee of Parliament (Sir Hen[eage] Finch, Chairman), to give them an answer to an order of theirs, “that we could not give them any account of the Accounts of the Navy in the years 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, as they desire.” After that I went and bespoke some linen of Betty Lane in the Hall, and after that to the Trumpet, where I sat and talked with her, &c. At night, it being very rainy, and it thundering and lightning exceedingly, I took coach at the Trumpet door, taking Monsieur L’Impertinent along with me as far as the Savoy, where he said he went to lie with Cary Dillon, and is still upon the mind of going (he and his whole family) to Ireland. Having set him down I made haste home, and in the courtyard, it being very dark, I heard a man inquire for my house, and having asked his business, he told me that my man William (who went this morning—out of town to meet his aunt Blackburne) was come home not very well to his mother, and so could not come home to-night. At which I was very sorry. I found my wife still in pain. To bed, having not time to write letters, and indeed having so many to write to all places that I have no heart to go about them. Mrs. Shaw did die yesterday and her husband so sick that he is not like to live.

Lady Jemima Montage, daughter of Lord Sandwich, previously described as Mrs. Jem.

Sunday 5 August 1660Friday 3 August 1660

Also on this day

Temperature: 16°C / 61°F

(Average for August 1660)

In Parliament

House of Commons
House of Lords

In Earls Colne, Essex

Diary of Ralph Josselin

(About this data)

Annotations

N Paul Brewster on Mon 4 Aug 2003, 11:36pm

where I sat and talked with her, &c.
In this case, I think the “&c” says it all
N Glyn on Mon 4 Aug 2003, 11:42pm

No it doesn’t - read her biography! Sam was always very chivalrous to poor, little Jem.

“I heard a man inquire for my house” - Londoners hadn’t yet heard of street numbering, and it must have been a nightmare trying to find somewhere in these narrow, winding streets. Also of course he’s just moved in, so most people wouldn’t have visited him yet.
N Paul Brewster on Mon 4 Aug 2003, 11:57pm

After that I went and bespoke some linen of Betty Lane in the Hall, and after that to the Trumpet, where I sat and talked with her, &c.
I think Betty Lane was the intended target of the “her” mentioned in the “&c” sentence, not “poor, little Jem”.
N gerry on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 12:36am

Per L&M Mrs. Shaw is Sarah, wife of Robert Shaw of Axe Yard (an Exchequer colleague), who was buried in St. Margaret’s Westminster on 5 August. Her husband survived.
N Eric Walla on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 04:11am

Finally, Jem returns to the stage …

… although we still do not get much of an idea what relations they will have together now that they have all risen in the world.

Naturally Sam won’t have the same duty to keep an eye out for Lady Jemimah’s welfare, but I hope to see their friendship mature as we pass the decade together.
N chip on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 04:43am

I’m with Paul B. regarding the &c. Not to ruin the plot, but this is the beginning of a beautiful thing for our dear Sam Pepys. We can only imagine what Pepys and Jem talked about dining alone. What’s this about Butler lying with Cary Dillon? Pretty soon this page will be ready for prime time, with a pg17 rating…thanks, Gerry, I wondered who Mrs. Shaw was and what happened to her husband.
N vincent on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 06:41am

to lie with is not the 21 st century version it being the Savoy and all:having no OED: I think it means a stayover:nothing more envigorating;
N Mary on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 08:20am

The Savoy
probably still in use as a military hospital; see background.
N Brian McMullen on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 02:39pm

It is amazing that anyone could find anyplace in London. There are approximately 400,000 people in the ‘metropolis’ in the mid 17th century. With no postal scheme, winding narrow lanes, and having to search at night, how would the unknown person even be close to SP’s house?

In Newton’s biography the author, James Gleick, mentions the lack of a postal system by referring to Newton’s method of ‘addressing’ a letter to the Secreatary of the Royal Society:

“Mr Henry Oldenburg at his house in the middle of the old PAlmail in St James Fields in Westminster” (p.75)

By the way, SP has a quote or two footnoted in the biography.
N helena murphy on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 02:56pm

Monsieur L’Impertinent and his family are probably of Irish extraction and
are repatriating to the mother country.Is is also possible that they are connected to James Butler, Duke of Ormond. The name Monsieur L’impertinent seems to express endearment but it may also imply that it’s bearer had passed the interregnum in France or elsewhere on the continent with the royal court in exile. The Butler family first came to Ireland in the 12th century with Henry II, and were regarded as old English in Ireland.
N J A Gioia on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 02:58pm

Finding addresses

Pub signs - vivid, simple and large - were certainly an aid in finding London addresses; with one (Elephant and Castle) going so far as lending its name to a whole district.
N Mary on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 03:42pm

London street signs abounded
at this time. Most advertised (sometimes cryptically) the trade or business that was carried on in a particular house or building; they were supposed to be hung 9 feet above the carriageway in order to allow a horse and rider to pass beneath them. Many private houses also carried signs, which might include a heraldic device. Visitors/clients would be directed to the general area of a particular sign and then be expected to ask around for precise directions. People knew their neighbours in those days. See Picard, “Restoration London” pp. 8-9. Street numbers were not introduced until the late 18th Century.
N serafina on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 05:18pm

I’m curious as to the phrase “took coach” Does this mean Sam has his own coach, or does he hire one, as we would take a taxi today? Anyone have any idea how much hiring a coach from his place of work to his home would cost? He seems to do this quite frequently.
N Glyn on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 05:58pm

If you go to “Background Information - Travel” you’ll find information about this. Although Sam is making a lot of journeys, especially like today when it was raining, they are all quite short; and I think that even people could share coaches and split the cost.

The other way to travel is by water which he does quite frequently.

He certainly does NOT own his own coach, nor his own horse: that would be well out of his price-range at the moment: rather like buying his own Jaguar or BMW.
N vincent on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 07:32pm

Address., Not that long ago, the Royal Mail would find the house I lived in by It’s name. The house being their longer than the occupant. People made a lifetime career of living in one location. Numbers are modern way of identifying a geezer, like in the services. My personality was wrapped up in 8 digit number and continued to do so with modern technology, so boring a person and place should have a personality. John (the) Miller at the mill, John Blacksmith at the bellows or John Cambridge of the 3 tuns. Soon we will end up with no 6************ of ********* has 2************ kids like you barcoded food etc.
N gerry on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 07:55pm

Address. The potential for confusion reminds me of the years I lived in Tokyo which still doesn’t have a “sensible” system of addresses. It was, and is the custom for people to have a little map on their personal card which can be shown to a cabdriver to help him find your destination.No “knowledge” there!
I wonder if there was anything like that in Sam’s day.
N gerry on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 07:58pm

It just occured to me that nowadays the gadget loving Japanese probably just exchange GPS coordinates.
N vincent on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 08:31pm

an aside: using gps to find the geezer; using an inplanted chip in a few spots on ones body like a vin no, your encoded unique barcoded dna sponsored number. You then can be emailed with the latest entree of peapeas on a daily basis wherever you are.
N language hat on Tue 5 Aug 2003, 11:35pm

Wrong Jemima!
This is not 13-year-old Jem (and shame on those of you who think there’s hanky-panky going on there) but her mother, Mountagu/Sandwich’s wife, Lady Jemima (and I think we can be pretty sure there was no h-p going on *there*, either!). Here’s the correct link:
http://www.pepysdiary.com/p/115.php
N john lauer on Wed 6 Aug 2003, 03:20am

So, Hat, the footnote (1) “…daughter of…” [above] is flat wrong? They can’t each be “Lady Jem”, can they? First, the confusion on when to read “Mrs” as “mistress” (meaning teen-ager, not concubine), or as “wife of”; now I can’t tell who (some think) is leering at whom.
N vincent on Wed 6 Aug 2003, 03:22am

“to lie” The British still have “lay byes “(I beleive) so that they rest their weary autos and engine drawn carts: Lay ups= put buys I do beleive then their is lay off; lay away, too: so full context is really needy for latin/greek soaked Saxxon lingua.
N language hat on Wed 6 Aug 2003, 11:47pm

“So, Hat, the footnote … is flat wrong?”

I’m going by the fact that the daughter seems to be described throughout as Mistress Jem and the mother as Lady Jemima; I suppose Pepys might mix up the nomenclature (though it seems unlikely), but I don’t understand the confidence of the footnote. How do they know which he found “at my Lord’s”? Is there some other source from which we know that the elder Lady Jemima was out of town? I may have been a bit overconfident in my comment, but I’d like to know why the confusion.
N vincent on Thu 7 Aug 2003, 02:55am

Mistress to Lady: It’s all in the timing Her dada is now sitting as the first Sandwich. Now a real Lord sitting with all the Bishops and their ilk. Now our mistress is no longer legal mistress: Notice Sandwich had to give up his seat in the House of Commons no longer a commoner:
N Eric Walla on Thu 7 Aug 2003, 03:04am

I have to give this one to lhat …

… having been sucked in by the footnote myself. Unless corroborating evidence can be found to back up L&M, I think we’ve found another good example why we don’t just rely on the research and assumptions of the past (or the present, for that matter). Constant vigilance.
N Paul Brewster on Thu 7 Aug 2003, 04:08am
N vincent on Thu 7 Aug 2003, 06:01am

They are now both lady’s of the Realm no longer commoners: as daddy and husband Is an Hearl: check Hansard:
N debra on Thu 7 Aug 2003, 11:12am

Lady Jemimah:
Like language hat, I took this to refer to Jem’s mother, the countess of Sandwich. However, according to Claire Tomalin, Sam called on the countess at once when she arrived in London in October 1660 - implying that she was not in London in August. (Tomalin, p126)
In a footnote to an earlier chapter she says, “Pepys’s care for the Montagu children begins with the operation on their eldest daughter, Jemima, in the winter of 1659/60, and continues with many other instances. For Lady Montagu’s affectionate behaviour to him, see the first entry about her in the Diary, 12 Oct 1660, when Pepys, hearing she has arrived in town, immediately calls on her: ‘found her at supper, so she made me sit down all alone with her, and after supper stayed and talked with her – she showing most extraordinary love and kindness’. (Tomalin, Chapter 5, Note 17)
N Paul Brewster on Thu 7 Aug 2003, 02:26pm

Lady Jemimah
Interestingly enough in the 12 October 1660 entry, SP will refer to her as Lady Sandwich.
N Glyn on Thu 7 Aug 2003, 04:35pm

Irrespective of which Jem was which, it’s clear from Paul Brewster’s notes that it was Betty Lane (not either Jem) that Pepys “talked with & etc.” and then took her to a nearby tavern that wasn’t one of his regular drinking haunts.
N language hat on Thu 7 Aug 2003, 11:21pm

Thanks, vincent, Paul, and debra!
I withdraw my earlier comment and give thanks once again for the detective skills of the Sam Squad.
N vincent on Sun 10 Aug 2003, 03:41am

to lay from J.Evelyn:oct 3rd 63:” …My Lady Carteret came to visite, & lay at my House:…”
N Phil on Mon 11 Aug 2003, 08:34pm

The Latham Index volume doesn’t appear to list this mention for either Jemimah; perhaps they were also unsure as to who it is.