Tuesday 27 March 1660

Annotations

• N Emilio on Thu 27 Mar 2003, 11:13pm

  Asea at last!
  But before going, “a fair new establishment of the Fleet to send to the Council.” This would seem to be a fair copy of the establishment drawn up yesterday, rather than doing the work all over again.
  Speaking of which, do we have any idea of what sort of guns those would be that make such a destructive racket? What armaments would have been customary for warships of the time?
  

• N Roger Miller on Thu 27 Mar 2003, 11:59pm

  Hope Reach must be about here:

  http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=568500&y=175500&z=3&sv=568500,175500&st=4&ar=N&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf

• N Jenny Doughty on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 02:03am

  By the time Sam goes aboard ship, cannons arranged along the sides of fighting ships were the decisive weapon of naval warfare. The Sovereign of the Seas, built in 1637, was the most formidable ship afloat in its time, carrying 100 guns mounted on three decks. You can see a picture of it here, from website of the Maritime Museum in Greenwich.

  http://www.nmm.ac.uk/searchbin/searchs.pl?exhibit=it3217z&axis=1048816682&flash=true&dev=

• N Keith Wright on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 02:19am

  “the report of them [the gun salutes] broke all the windows in my cabin and broke off the iron bar that was upon it”

  Breakage: glass, sure. Iron: how? Rattled from its mounts by vibrations? Direct hit? What?

• N Alfred Pinkham on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 04:20am

  Ships still carry saluting batteries, usually a small loud gun that does not fire a projectile near one bridge wing. Naval Courtesy requires juniors salute seniors and it is apparent that Sam’s My Lord requires the show of great respect. The Shock wave from a broad side of powder less shot could easily carry away a hand forged latching device.
  

• N Pauline on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 05:44am

  “…to keep anybody from creeping in at the Scuttle.”
  From time to time we get such a lilting phrase from Sam; to me it exemplifies an aspect of the charm that his friends and superiors find in him.

• N PHE on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 08:31am

  The genius of Sam’s journalism
  This one short phrase provides a vivid image of the whole scene of ships blasting guns, the noise, the smoke, the excitement.

  “did give us abundance of guns and we them, so much that the report of them broke all the windows in my cabin”

• N MikeCamel on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 10:12am

  As far as breaking the iron bar goes, I’m not surprised if it were just iron, which can be very brittle. If it was fixed in place at both ends, significant movement of the around it might well lead to it snapping, yes?

• N Grahamt on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 10:26am

  Breaking iron bars:
  CAST iron is brittle, Wrought iron is tough and malleable. A latch would be wrought, not cast, so what is this bar? Is it just a cast iron bar fitted against the “window” to hold it shut or to bar it against intruders? A task it doesn’t seem very good for if a pressure wave can break it.
  Interesting that landlubber Pepys uses the sea term scuttle, but not porthole for window.

• N KVK on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 12:15pm

  Charles II writes to Monck

  Meanwhile, Charles writes an important letter from Brussels today beginning “I know too well the power you have to do me good or harm, not to desire you should be my friend,” and promising that “all good men” will be secured in “what belongs to them.” This latter phrase is vague on two major points: who is going to be punished if the King returns, and how are the properties seized from royalists during the civil war and given to Parliamentarians going to be dealt with.

  This may be Charles’ first direct correspondance with Monck (I’m not sure). He was communicating earlier through Monck’s brother Nicholas. The Monck’s intentions are still unclear to both Charles and Edward Hyde. He continues to rebuke the royalist cause publicly: he just had a former chaplain to Charles I jailed for printing a pro-monarchical sermon and dedicating it to Monck.

• N Jenny Doughty on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 02:25pm

  Windows in ships were rectangular, like windows on land, in the 17th century. Although the term ‘porthole’ was used as early as the reign of Henry VI, it referred to openings in the ship’s side. Scuttles were not windows but vents and would often open onto the deck rather than the side of the ship - thus making the fear of somebody ‘creeping in’ a more realistic one. They could be built up and curved over at the top to prevent rain or seawater penetration. Originally the name for a hatch, the name ‘scuttle’ became applied to any opening. Hence the term ‘scuttling a ship’ for punching holes in it to make it sink.

  This leads to the interesting etymological derivation of the term ‘scuttlebutt’. Indiscreet remarks would be easily carried down such scuttles, especially if butts of fresh water (where people might gather to drink and gossip) were positioned near them. Indeed, the casks of drinking water eventually became known as scuttlebutts, and the term eventually migrated to the gossip and rumour to be expected there.

  As an interesting sidenote on this, in researching ‘scuttle’ I came across this link to one of a set of ballads owned by Pepys some time after the diary finishes:

  http://mysongbook.de/msb/songs/g/goldenva.html

  Perhaps we can imagine Sam singing along on one of those convivial evenings below decks.

• N Todd Bernhardt on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 02:50pm

  re: interesting etymological derivation of the term

• N Glyn on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 04:10pm

  Good description

  I agree with PHE about this description. You can see that it must have been a bright day with a fresh wind and breaking waves. And the ships firing off shots to salute each other that are loud enough to shatter glass.

  But if you look at Roger Miller’s map (and press the button icon on it to zoom out), you will see that they are still less than 50 miles away from London. In fact, they are almost near enough to commute, or go home at the weekends anyway, and I suspect that many of the visitors to the ship are doing just that.

  So it seems that the Swiftsure hasn’t set out on any sea-voyage yet. I suspect that it is currently sailing between naval ports on the Thames to inspect them and transact business, and perhaps sails back each evening to dock at the same mooring each night. Where visitors know they can find it.

• N bruce on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 04:29pm

  I’ve just found this link which tells us some details of the Swiftsure. A sizeable warship for the time, and adequate to reflect the importance of the high level diplomatic manoevering in progress.
  http://pc-78-120.udac.se:8001/WWW/Nautica/Naval_History/GB/Derrick(1806)_p59.html
  

• N bchan on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 06:12pm

  As a U.S. Navy veteran, I can confirm that the term “scuttlebutt” is still in regular use, referring to both drinking fountains and to gossip.

  I expect Pepys’ use of naval terms to improve as he gains his sea legs. It’s quite a vocabulary to learn: On board ship, the ceiling becomes the “overhead”; walls are “bullkheads”; a room is a “compartment”; and the floor is of course the “deck”. Openings in the hull can be windows (openings with glass panes), portholes (windows with hinged protective metal coverings) or scuttles (open holes with protective metal coverings). A door/doorway is the same thing as on land; hatches are portals between comparments with covers that can be sealed (“dogged”) making them watertight. One travels by means of passageways (hallways) and goes either forward (towards the front, or bow of the ship), aft (towards the rear, or stern) or athwartships (from one side to the other). The toilets are called “heads”; the kitchen is the “galley”; a mop is a “swab”; and stairs are called “ladders” — by which one can go upstairs (“above”) or downstairs (“below”).

  It takes a while to learn all of this, but I”m sure our Sam will meet the challenge.

• N Bored on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 08:29pm

  I remember reading or hearing a narrative of someone who visited London by sea at about the same era. Because the Thames was choc-a-bloc with sailing ships, and because there were no tugs, it would take up to several days for ships to work their way from the sea to London, or vice-versa. Passengers for London would commonly get off in Kent and travel by land into London, since this was faster. This probably explains the Swiftsure’s slow progress.

  Although I had heard at lot about Pepys diary, I never realised that he went to sea. Isnt it exciting!

• N Laura K on Fri 28 Mar 2003, 10:37pm

  “Indeed, the casks of drinking water eventually became known as scuttlebutts, and the term eventually migrated to the gossip and rumour to be expected there.”

  Of course - gossiping around the water cooler! Thanks, Jenny - excellent stuff.
  

• N michael f vincent on Sat 29 Mar 2003, 03:08am

  “scuttle” remember coal scuttle,
  “esculle ” bowl.. also scuttle along
  OH! this anglosaxon language with svp and other euphanisms. In this page, A thief or rat would also use this means of coming a board whithout being piped.

• N Alan Bedford on Sat 29 Mar 2003, 03:15am

  Thanks to Bruce for finding the list of “Great Ships” and please note that the list is from… Pepys Miscellanies. Sam has contributed to the Web!

  And the use of the the name Swiftsure by the Royal Navy has continued. The most recent examples are a cruiser (WW II) and the current Swiftsure, a nuclear submarine.

• N Pauline on Sat 29 Mar 2003, 04:15am

  Sharp eye, Alan!
  This linking to one of Sam’s “establishments” is very cool!

  I hope all of this gets posted to Background Info/places/travel/ships/Swiftsure

• N Glyn on Sat 29 Mar 2003, 11:53am

  Biography of Sir Harry Wright

  So far there isn’t one - although he has appeared in the Diary at least seven times (Feb 1, 4, 28; March 10, 14, 23, 27): can anyone provide one?

  We have also bumped into a Lady Wright on five occasions, and we know her to be the aunt of Mistress Jem. If she is Sir Harry’s wife, then that makes him a relation of Lord Montagu but is that correct?

  Just to clarify the titles of the English aristocracy … MARY has already set out the titles for male aristocrats in her annotation for 22 March. Lords outrank Knights, so Lord Montagu is of higher status than Sir Henry Wright. However, the wives of either would both be given the same title: Lady.

  So Lady Wright could be married to Sir Henry rather than to some Lord. I think that’s correct.

• N Hhomeboy on Sat 29 Mar 2003, 07:06pm

  Warning: lengthy post contains spoiler!!! re: Charles II and Monck’s first official exchanges… reply to KVK post above.

  In the past, Monck had received royal communiqu

• N Retearivs on Mon 4 Aug 2003, 06:35am

  Scuttlebutt

  A butt was a barrel of a certain size. As has been reported above, “scuttle” refers to a hole. The expression “scuttlebutt” for ship’s gossip is believed by many to have had it’s origin in the open container aboard ship which held drinking water for seamen. That container was a scuttled butt; that is to say a butt with either part of the top stove in or a neat hole made in it by the cooper (it was a scuttled butt) to allow dipping out mugs of water. Naturally, the group which formed around this scuttled butt exchanged gossip which is supposed to have been retailed elsewhere in the ship as scuttlebutt.
  

• N Todd Bernhardt on Sat 26 Feb 2005, 03:37pm

  More on “scuttlebutt”

  Michael Quinion addressed the origins of this phrase this week in his excellent weekly newsletter, World Wide Words. Here’s what he had to say:

  Q. My friend and I have been trying to figure out the origin of the word “scuttlebutt”. Do you have any thoughts on this? [Clair Merritt]

  A. The second half is easy enough - a butt is just the old word for a large cask. The first half appears in the language in several senses with different origins, so we have to be sure we’ve got the right one. It’s not the flattish open container, made of wickerwork at one time, whose name survives in “coal scuttle”; that’s Old English, from Latin “scutella” for a dish or platter (its first sense in English). Nor is it the one that means to move with short quick steps, perhaps like a spider; that comes from an old English dialect word.

  The sense we want is the one of a hole cut in a ship’s timbers. That’s been around since the fifteenth century, when sailors called any smallish hatchway or opening in the deck a scuttle, especially if it was covered with a lid of some sort; it was the usual term for an opening to let in light or air. It’s of uncertain origin, but might be from the Old French “escoutille”, meaning a hatchway.

  The verb “to scuttle” dates from the mid 17th century, at first in the sense of sinking a ship specifically by cutting holes in it - today we use it for doing so by any means.

  It was usual to have a water cask on deck so that the crew had easy access to drinking water during the day. To make it easier to scoop the water out with a tin pot or dipper, the head of the cask would be removed. So it became known as the scuttlebutt - the cask with a hatch in it. Fresh water was so precious that a guard was often posted by the scuttlebutt to ensure that water was only taken to drink and not, for example, to wash clothes with.

  It was the one place where members of the crew on duty in various parts of the ship could meet and talk during the working day. This is how Herman Melville put it in White Jacket; or The World in a Man-of-War of 1850: “There is no part of a frigate where you will see more going and coming of strangers, and overhear more greetings and gossipings of acquaintances, than in the immediate vicinity of the scuttle-butt, just forward of the main-hatchway, on the gun-deck.” Today’s office water coolers have pretty much the same ambience.

  Real scuttlebutts have long since passed into naval history and the word has shifted its meaning to the rumour and gossip itself rather than the place where one exchanged it.