Sunday 29 January 1659/60

Annotations

• N Susanna on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 01:32am

  Went to Mr. Gunning’s

  Peter Gunning seems at this time to have been preaching at the chapel at Burleigh or Exeter House, on the Strand, near Covent Garden.

  http://www.motco.com/Map/81002/SeriesSearchPlatesFulla.asp?mode=query&title=Strand&artist=384&other=314&x=11&y=11
  

• N Warren Keith Wright on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 02:11am

  Uh-oh—-politics, and now religion. Well, Paul would say that, wouldn’t he (in his epistle to the “foolish Galatians”).
  In the interests of clarification, not disputation, is this rough distinction correct?—-that since Peter (petra) is the “rock” upon which Jesus is said to have said He would build His church, naturally the Catholic Church takes Peter as prior and superior, while the Anglican Church would object, and promote the latecomer Paul as his equal.
  —-At least, according to Mr. Gunning, “a great controversialist” as the footnote attests. The claim of succession through Peter is spelled out by Jesus only in Matthew 16:18, not in the other Gospels.

• N Martin K. Foys on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 02:23am

  Lord Montagu’s residence —

  He’s not listed in this entry, but I’ve been curious as to where in London Pepys’ lord Montagu would have lived at this point, and whether this Montagu is connected to the Ralph Montague that builds Montague House on Great Russell (then at the very edge of the city) in 1676.

• N David Quidnunc on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 02:30am

  Diarist John Evelyn was at Gunning’s too

  Evelyn (a far more pious man than Pepys) confirms Pepys’s account:

  “Mr. Gunning … 29 [of January] — on 2. Gal[atians]: 5 ad. 12 &c: proving very solidly, that St. Paule was equal to St. Peter, as to power, & magnifying this Apostle of the Gentiles.”

  Evelyn may have written more on the sermon — the one-volume, abridged Oxford edition of his diary systematically excludes Evelyn’s accounts of sermons, probably a good thing for most readers.

  (Of course, we Roman Catholics beg to differ with Gunning, Pepys and Evelyn on just what precedent Paul set in his disputes with Peter.)

  Notice that Evelyn has the verses noted in his diary. How would he have written them down during the sermon (or did he impress them on his memory so he would have that information when he wrote in his diary later?) Perhaps he brought his Bible, or a New Testament or prayer book to the service and underlined the spot (did they have pencils or bits of lead to write with back then?). Pepys only has the chapter, so it seems to me more likely that he just remembered it.

• N Paul Chapin on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 02:43am

  “do find myself to be worth 40l. and more, which I did not think, but am afraid that I have forgot something.” I know the feeling, Sam. Love the comment.

  To give some perspective on what level of wealth this amounted to, can anyone tell us what the normal approximate annual income would have been for someone of Pepys’ social and economic standing?
  

• N Susanna on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 03:40am

  The Montagues

  Ralph Montagu, later 1st Duke of Montagu, was the cousin of Pepys’ “My Lord”, Edward Montague.

  http://43.1911encyclopedia.org/M/MO/MONTAGU_RALPH_1ST_DUKE_OF.htm

  And he was a real scoundrel, too:

  http://www.montaguemillennium.com/Research/h_1709_ralph.htm

• N David Quidnunc on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 04:33am

  Moore, Moore & Moore Questions

  This is the third time a Mr. Moore shows up in the diary. Same guy, or two, or three?

  Tomalin names a Henry Moore, Montagu’s “man of business” (p. 155), but that refers to a later period and doesn’t seem to help identify these three mentions:

  17 Jan. — This Moore is in love with Mrs. Jem or (as Latham & Matthews have it) Jane. In a note (here: http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1660/01/17/index.php#c601 ) Glyn identifies this man as Henry Moore, a lawyer.

  This Moore is associated with Crewe, because when Pepys goes to see him, it appears he goes to Crewe’s home for that purpose: “I … went with the coach to Mr. Crew’s, thinking to have spoke with Mr. Moore and Mrs. Jem …”

  19 Jan. — Pepys, Shepley and this Moore are dining with Jemima on a turkey. Then Pepys and Moore go to the French Ordinary, where Downing is hosting some guests.

  Today — Pepys meets Moore at Gunning’s chapel and goes to dinner with him at Crewe’s.

  Does anyone have Moore information?

• N michael f vincent on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 04:54am

  re: earnings (as not filed on his tax form)
  from the the book by Geoffry Trease, Samuel Pepys and his world. Putnam 1972
  “1658 …Jane Birch…. She was paid three pounds a year. Pepy’s own salary from George Downing was only fifty.”
  page 24.

• N Susanna on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 07:17am

  Pepys’ income

  Pepys’ income seems to have been firmly middle class (or, to use a period term, “of the middling sort”), although at this point at the lower end of its range. He was, however, still a young man on his way up in the world.

  This is an interesting discussion on the middle class of London of Pepys’ time and of the 18th Century:

  http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft8489p27k/

• N mark on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 10:41am

  Evelyn may well have known the bible well enough to be able to identify chapter and verse easily. The christian church uses well travelled portions of the bible so its not unlikely that a pious person would know the text intimately

• N Lukas Bergstrom on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 03:04pm

  Actually, the entire Bible will be read over the course of a year using the liturgy from the Book of Common Prayer. (http://www.eskimo.com/~lhowell/bcp1662/info/reading_script.html)

  Why would Pepys specifically mention not going to Mrs. Turner’s?

• N Eric Walla on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 05:34pm

  “I understand that my uncle Fenner and my aunt were much pleased with our entertaining them.”

  So did we already have it clear from before? Obviously the Joyces were being entertained out of family duty or in hope of pleasing Uncle Fenner (which essentially amounts to the same thing). No love lost on the Joyces, that’s established.

• N Nix on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 05:48pm

  Some observations on money and credit:

  In reading Pepys

• N David Cattarin on Thu 30 Jan 2003, 09:48pm

  Pencils or bits of lead? If I recall correctly, graphite pencils weren’t much used before 1650, so it is most likely that true lead-based pencils would have been used. I’ll check the dates.

  In any case, a very interesting history of the pencil was written by Henry Petroski. You’ll be surprised that graphite was once considered a national asset and protected as such.
  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679734155/qid=1043962908/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-9076781-0972934?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
  

• N language hat on Fri 31 Jan 2003, 01:22am

  Don’t apologize, Nix!
  That was an extremely useful and interesting analysis.

• N Michael f vincent on Fri 31 Jan 2003, 04:34am

  RE: On my account (tab). It was very popular in my youth, before Hire Purchash (HP) took hold . The Tradesmen settled their accounts quarterly or annually and they had to go to the back door to collect. They hated it, they had carry the bankers and their ilk for a year. The credit card has change a lot of attitudes.

• N Roger Miller on Fri 31 Jan 2003, 11:42pm

  .. went upon his account.

  I think Pepys is just saying that William Joyce invited Tom to go for a drink and then made him buy a round.

  From a glance ahead it seems that W. Joyce was fond of a tipple or three.

• N Peter Mehlin on Sat 1 Feb 2003, 01:16am

  Thank you nix for those observations on money and credit. I found them very useful. It is the annotations that make this reading so much more valuable than just sitting down with the book.

• N tamara on Sat 1 Feb 2003, 04:33am

  re: remuneration
  My father’s annual salary from his first job (something dreary and clerical) after leaving the army in the mid-50s when I was little was around

• N David Bell on Sat 1 Feb 2003, 11:35am

  re: renumeration

  It may well come up later in the diary, but for a comparison, the traditional pay for a British soldier was “a shilling a day”, though it was only fixed at that rate at the end of the 18th Century, and didn’t increase until the 1914-18 war. Out of that came various stoppages for food, uniforms, and the like.

  I don’t have the figures to hand, but the pay for a seaman in the Navy was similar, and they didn’t have to pay for their rations.

  At 20 shillings to the pound, this gives a fair idea of what Sam was getting, and how many men his disbursements to the Army might be paying for. A full-strength regiment would have a daily payroll that was close to his annual income, though less than a third of that would go to the soldiers as cash.

  Compare this to a servant getting about 2d per diem, though not having to pay for board and lodge.

  Of course, the soldier wasn’t told, until after he’d signed up and taken the King’s Shilling, about the stoppages. It looked a better-paid job than it was.
  

• N Glyn on Sat 1 Feb 2003, 04:38pm

  to the tavern after they were gone from my house

  So pubs and taverns were not closed all day on Sunday, but were open for at least part of the day.

  Presumably things became more strict in Victorian times.

• N David Glotzer on Sun 2 Feb 2003, 04:53am

  Why would Pepys specifically mention not going to Mrs. Turner